7 10 108 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/6b3f9438cee9509c119b057c83d96d72.jpg da9291610fb07d84a38ded4c9607c832 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/4610385620c4ee9283339af209921684.pdf 27d72736a665e16f1dd14552657b2784 PDF Text Text Sister Patricia Haley, SCN November, 2018 (The remarks of the editor are in italics. Sister Patricia Haley, “Pat”, holds the distinction of being the first Sister of Charity of Nazareth who can claim African American descent. She was an honored and cherished member of the SCN Community as well as a religious woman appreciated in wider American Church circles. Especially impressive was her founding membership in the National Black Sisters Conference. Her story here is adapted from her interview with Sister Therese Arru, SCN,​ w ​ ith gratitude to Cherrylle Coleman, Archival Center volunteer, for her work transcribing the interview. This interview in its full and enjoyable entirety may be read in the Nazareth Archives or accessed at this link:___________.) Pat Haley was born in Columbus, Georgia in 1945. Her mother was Blanche Miles Haley and her birth father was John Manuel. It was Julius Haley, a Louisiana Catholic, who “was the father I grew up with and the Dad I know.” Pat had three sisters: Joyce, Sheila and Debra, whom Julius Haley adopted. Julius had one son, Henry, who became stepbrother to Pat and her sisters. (​Sadly, all three of her sisters died young. Sheila and Debra died in their fifties. Joyce died at age twenty-nine and left two small children.) Julius was a chef and taught them all how to cook. One of the places where Julius was employed was the Morrison Cafeteria chain. When he was transferred to Montgomery, Alabama the family moved with him. Pat enrolled at St. Jude’s School staffed by the Vincentian Sisters of Charity (VSC), now members of the SCN Community. Pat had first met the Vincentians while in the second grade at Mother Mary Mission in Phenix City, AL. A fellow St. Jude student, Norma, later entered the VSCs and became Sister Julian. Pat’s mother, Blanche, went to Tuskegee Institute and then graduated from Alabama A&M (Agricultural and Mechanical University). She had excellent math skills and was a 1 �wise mentor and disciplinarian for her children. Blanche was the only girl among four brothers. She was proud that her brother George was a trained Tuskegee Airman. Pat shares, “My mother was a member of Dr. Martin Luther King’s church in Montgomery. She and my Dad participated in the civil rights marches and bus boycotts.” Pat’s maternal grandmother was Daisy Miles White and Daisy’s husband, Howard White. Pat was close to them both, following Howard around “like a shadow.” Her maternal great grandmother, Mary Boikins – “Big Momma” she was called - had Cherokee and African American relatives in her ancestry, (There are memories of childhood, some of spankings, which Pat told with humor and no hurt feelings. I shall share and use her own words.) “From time to time we would go to church with our grandparents. What they always used to say was that Baptists shouted and Methodists just waved their hands. Well, my grandmother was a shouting Methodist and my mama and Great-gran and were a hand waving Baptists! I had many fun memories of my Great-gran since she babysat us most of the time while our mother and grandmother worked…. I remember the spankings I got. There were three good ones from my Great-gran which I will never forget. One of them I remember was that a crew of girls and I were supposed to be friends but we were bullying one another. Great-gran was watching us, called us all in to tell her what we were doing. She listened and said, ‘I am going to give all of you a spanking – some because you were doing something to a girl who was supposed to be your friend, and to you (the girl who was bullied), because all you had to do was come in and tell me.’ When Great-gran gave a spanking she always ended with, ‘In the name of the Father God (womp!), in the name of the Mother God, Jesus’ mama (womp!), in the name of Jesus Christ (womp,womp!!) and in the name of the Holy Ghost (womp, womp!!).’ I would try to talk Big Momma out of it but it didn’t work. I’d say, ‘Jesus Christ was ONE and the Holy Ghost was ONE’. Another memory I have is that the same little group of girls decided that we were going to collect some money and pretend it was for the Church fundraiser that was going on. 2 �We collected a few nickels and dimes. We spread out our little handkerchiefs with the coins in them but we were just kindergarteners’ so we couldn’t count. When Great-gran saw us she counted it for us and complimented us on raising money for the Church. She told the pastor and the next Sunday we had to walk down the Church aisle and put the money in the collection basket. We weren’t happy about that. I remember that dues at church were five cents a Sunday. I would stop at a grocery on the way and buy myself a little Johnny Cake and have a few pennies left for church. Later a note would come home about my dues and what was still owed; I got a spanking about that and the usual womps.” Pat became a Catholic when she was in the eighth grade although she had had instruction class from the second grade. She was dismissed from instruction class because of her many questions about beliefs which just didn’t make sense to her. The pastor finally gave in and Pat was baptized. The pastor commented, “Baptize the child ‘cause she isn’t going to get any better.” She argued for her name of “Patricia”; instead she was given “Ann.” (​In the SCN Community, when receiving the habit, she would also request “Patricia”. In addition she added “Ann Barbara” to her request list. She received the latter but in 1969 changed back to “Patricia”.) Growing up, Pat wanted to take piano lessons but her mother chose drama and public speaking which Pat was happy about later in life. Her parents were excellent dancers and the Haley girls learned from them. From her Great-gran she learned to listen to the church choir. She and several other little girls thought that they had learned the hymn, “Nearer, my God to Thee”, except that when the deacon called them up to sing in their little Sunday dresses what they sang was, “Nero, my God , to Thee.” From her Great-gran Pat leaned many things and missed her terribly after she died when Pat was in the tenth grade. The cooking Pat learned from her father she kept as a skill all her life. She remembered, “He taught us first how to make cornbread. I thought that you made biscuits the same way. When I finished making biscuits, they were a gorgeous brown and hard as a brick. Water wouldn’t even soak through them. He also taught us how to iron and make our 3 �beds. He had definite ideas about how our house should run. All seven of us were made to feel responsible. He showed us the way by caring for his own clothes, making beds and tending to the youngest ones. His Navy training truly showed. I loved him dearly and would grieve his loss even though he lived to the age of ninety-seven.” “I remember that the first thing in the morning,” Pat shared, “we got up, hit our knees, said a prayer and made our beds. On Sundays there was a children’s Mass at 9:00 A.M., which we all, including my Mom and Dad, attended. We would then go home, have breakfast and go to my mother’s church at 11:30”. In Montgomery, Pat remembers the kind Vincentian Sisters mentioning religious vocation even though the students were small. When they moved to the Birmingham area because of her father’s work, Pat first met the Sisters of Charity of Nazareth at Holy Family High School, Ensley. SCNs also staffed a small hospital in the same location. After grade school, which the Felician Sisters staffed, Pat attended Holy Family. She was on a work study program and remembers the name of the Sister staff there: Mary Timothy Holland, James Teresa Hagan, Ruth Edward Speer, and Charles Benedict Greenwell. The latter the students teasingly called “Sister Huck” after Huckleberry Hound whose floppy ears reminded them of Sister’s floppy bows on her bonnet. Pat and her friends became candy stripers at Holy Family Hospital and called themselves “Ben Casey girls” after a popular TV character. They made friends with the Sisters at the hospital, especially Sister Ann Jude Whitty. Pat’s friends even became nurses, one of them a head nurse at the University of Alabama Hospital even though as a candy striper she screamed and ran from the room when she found a patient had died. Pat’s plans were different. She was in the ROTC (Reserve Officer Training Corps) and actually signed up with the Marines, planning to become an attorney in that branch of Military Service. Her older sister had joined the Air Force and Pat knew that before she could join the Marines she needed to graduate high school and then get her parents’ signature. 4 �Pat continued, “My high school years were good. My Mom and Dad often chaperoned our dances. The Haleys – my Mom and Dad, my brother, and me – were always there, chaperoning and dancing.” Pat admired her mother and the wise ways she had for keeping the family’s finances. She also taught her children that the family shared responsibility for its upkeep. Any small monies the children would acquire were expected to be put into the family fund. Pat’s mother said to them, “Everybody is working for the family and everyone has to share.” Each family member took turns counting out the cash from the parents’ paychecks plus the children’s small contributions. Everyone knew about the family’s financial status. Further, the member in need received the item necessary. All knew that need was the priority. Allowances, on the other hand, were to be spent as desired. During her high school years Pat took part in civil rights activities. She had the experience of water hoses, torn clothing and dirty cattle trucks. Her very wise mother impressed on her daughter how serious the civil rights issue was and how important the consequences. She shares, “My mother died of a massive heart attack at age fifty-four. Heart issues run on the female side of our family. Her aunts, great aunts, grandmother, great grandmother and sisters all died off either heart attacks or strokes. The financial burden that came with those illnesses was often devastating.” When Pat was a junior in high school and a member of the Young Christian Leadership group, she had the opportunity to go to Kentucky for the “Holy Land” tour. She remembered, “That’s when I saw the Nazareth Motherhouse. It might have been then when I started thinking of letting go of the Marines and choosing religious life. Other communities of Sisters had given us vocation talks but I didn’t care for their European roots.” Sister Mary Lucia Flowers was the SCN who began to talk seriously to Pat about entering religious life. With Father Gilbert Kroger,​ ​C.P.’s recommendation, Pat took the life-changing step of applying to the SCN Community. She shared, “Mother Lucille 5 �Russell came down to introduce herself to me and to let me know that I might not be really received by some of the Sisters. I told her that I knew that. When I told my Gran and Great-gran, they said to me, ‘Are you going to go to school?’ I said, ‘Yes, ma’am’. They replied, ‘You can go.’ They were concerned about education and continued talking, ‘You have been in the Civil Rights Movement and now are going to be with all white folks.” Again, I said, ‘Yes, ma’am’. Their response was, ‘You can take care of yourself, so you will be all right.’ They were very supportive and didn’t try to stop me.” There were forty-five young women who entered the community with Pat in 1963. Now these Sisters remain - Sisters Betty Blandford, Marie Becker, Rebecca Miles and Eleanor Martin. They gather several times a year and are joined by former members who can attend. Sister Kay Glunk, formerly a Vincentian Sister of Charity, is considered a member of their group. Pat had good memories of Novice Director Sister Constance Mueller and has many novitiate stories to tell​. (Her stories are so heartwarming and enjoyable. They may be accessed in the original interview, pp.11 to 15. We shall content ourselves with just a few here.) These are Pat’s words, “When we got to Nazareth as postulants we were assigned duties. I was assigned to the white men’s dining room. I thought, ‘There’s no way I’m gonna do that.’ Mother Lucille was coming down the hall, and although I knew I wasn’t supposed to, I stopped her. I asked for a meeting with her and her Council ‘because I am assigned a duty I simply will not do.’ The next day Sister Constance said that the meeting would take place that afternoon. I told the Council, ‘It is not right to be segregated in a place like this. I just spent my years in high school and earlier fighting segregation. I know I was coming into a white world, but there is no excuse for this.’ Sister Mary Ransom Burke, bless her heart said, ‘What would you suggest we do?’ I looked at her and said, ‘It’s just a partition between two dining rooms. If you have a ladder and screwdriver, I’ll take it down….Mother Lucille said, ‘We will have to have a conversation with the workers.’ I said ‘You didn’t have a conversation with them before. 6 �It was decided by the Council. I will not work in a segregated dining room, obedience or no obedience.’ Nothing else was said but in a week the partition was down and I took the duty. Many of the workers did not like it but it was down. In the hallway there was a white water fountain and a colored fountain. I said you also need to do something about those two fountains. So they did. Sister Mary Ransom later said ‘Thank you’ to me and so did Mother Lucille.” A really comical story is that Pat’s novitiate class had to wait until an older group had their share of a pizza treat prepared by Sister Margaret Patrick Gallagher. There was almost none left for Pat and her class. Much grinning came from them when they realized that the treat was actually liver pizza. Another story shows Pat’s confidence joined to her unselfishness. Pat asked Sister Constance if her novitiate class could swim in the pool in the Nazareth College gym. After settling on old-fashioned swimsuits from the Fitzpatrick religious garb catalog, Sister gave permission but looked puzzled when Pat was not swimming. Pat explained, “Sister Constance, you didn’t say anything but I don’t swim. I wasn’t asking permission for myself. I just never learned how to swim because back in segregation days there were no pools for black kids. I never did learn and I wasn’t going down to a river where my brother went​.” (In the letters she and her sister Joyce exchanged –Joyce was in boot camp- she learned that Joyce learned to swim by being tossed into the water, a not always advisable way to learn swimming. Pat also shared stories about 5:00 A.M. convent rising, quick wash and dressing and getting to the Chapel. Pat says, “I told her we were learning how to sleep during meditation.”) Pat made vows in August 1966 and remained at Nazareth for Juniorate training until 1968. Her first mission away was at St. Ladislas School in Columbus, Ohio. Pat said this, “When I was assured that there were black children in school, I agreed to go. There were only ten in the whole school and three of them were in my second grade class. I 7 �stayed only a year but I have good memories of this assignment and remember well the Sisters with whom I lived: Andrew Maria Gass, Louise Smith, Wilma Ross, Mary Jane Sappington, Martha Clan, Anselma Trimborn.” A sad memory is that during the time she was missioned at St. Ladislas, Dr. King was assassinated and yet the pastor didn’t mention it until Sister Anselma told him. At the same time Pat was also in a preaching ministry. When she flew to various places and was given a deck of cards by the airline stewardess, she brought them home to her “card playing ladies” at St. Ladislas. Pat went to Louisville in June 1969 where she would teach at various times at these schools: St. Matthias, St. Brigid and Immaculate Heart of Mary. She studied Urban Development and Government Administration at the University of Louisville but became ill and did not complete her Master’s degree​. (Pat had already received a Bachelor of Science in Education at Nazareth College, Nazareth.​ ) During this time of study she lived at St. Thomas-St. Vincent Home. When the Federal Government passed Title IX legislation, the law that opened education opportunities without discrimination of gender, Pat signed up to go to Washington, D.C. to learn more about it. She donned a pinstripe suit, had a brand new brief case and took her place with others learning about the new law. When she returned, she was able to apply her knowledge of Title IX to benefit students at Immaculate Heart of Mary School. Pat recalled a trip to the Bahamas where she and other African American religious were hosted by Sidney Poitier and Harry Belafonte. They hoped that the Sisters from the States could influence the Bahamian Sisters and priests to get interested in politics. She feels that, at least initially, they were not successful. That led Pat and other Sisters to form the National Black Sisters Conference. Besides being a founding member, Pat was also on the first board. (​This summer, 2018, Sister Pat, despite serious health problems, attended the 50​th​ anniversary of the Conference, held in New Orleans.) 8 �Sister Barbara Thomas, Superior General, gave Pat the approval to answer her call to teach and speak about black history whenever she could, as well as giving workshops and participating in revivals. In the 1960’s and 1970’s there not many SCNs who were willing to live in an all-black neighborhood. Pat knew that she didn’t want to live in an all-white neighborhood. Pat, with a group of Sisters, did move to the West End of Louisville. Besides Pat, the group was comprised of Sisters Kathleen Flaherty, Mary Kathleen Sheehan, Janet Daugherty, Ann Kateri Kenyon, Sister Peggy Corbett and Barbara Houston, a Sister of Notre Dame who transferred to the SCN Community, but later withdrew. At the invitation of Fathers Tony Heitzman and Charles Mackin, they moved into the former Sacred Heart Church rectory, located at 18​th​ Street and Broadway. While Sister Pat was away in Indianapolis marching with a civil rights group, the other Sisters, at the urging of the Tenants Union, tore down a dilapidated, abandoned house in the area. They were arrested for throwing debris into the street and blocking traffic on Dixie Highway. When their mug shots were taken, the Sisters refused to be sad and even asked the police officer, “Could I have another picture for my parents?” The officer said he never wanted to see them again for anything. A trial date was set for March 10, 1972 and, to the displeasure of the judge, the Sisters asked for individual trials. Two busloads of persons came from the Plymouth Settlement House as well a busload of Sisters, including Mother Lucille, from Nazareth. Sister Pat brought children in, carrying balloons and singing, “We shall overcome.” Mother Lucille was the first character witness and the Sisters showed their support by saying “Amen” whenever there was a “So help me God.” Some were saying the rosary​. (In Pat’s words, “It was a show.” For those of us there, it was indeed a memorable happening, humorous but serious in its consequence.) ​The prosecution sent the jury out and one juror just left the scene because he knew what the outcome was bound to be. When the judge said “case dismissed’ for Kathleen Flaherty, they decided to settle out of court rather than parade the other Sisters through the charade. 9 �Pat moved into a home for abused women and children on Brook Street, one of several for women in need which Father John Morgan had established. She shared, “While I was there I was traveling, doing workshops and revivals. I was graced to get to the Islands. I got to Barbados, St. Lucia, St. Thomas, St. Vincent, the Bahamas, and others. I did workshops on each one of those….I would start a song and the people would pick it up singing in their own way, different from the States. I thoroughly enjoyed that and the food too.” Pat was one of the first teachers in the Black Catholic Studies program at Xavier University in New Orleans, Louisiana and taught there for twenty-eight summers. In 1982, she went to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania where she worked with the police department. She described her role in this way, “They had a family service unit with real social workers. They had truant kids and those who were not social workers were assigned to deal with those kids. I worked there for eight years until they closed the unit. From there I went to Our Lady of Souls Parish where the pastor wanted me to be a choir director. I told him I was not prepared for that but he said I knew how to wave my hands up and down.” Her role in the parish was Director of the Spiritual Vocation Center and, after four years, she worked in the Office of Black Catholics, still in Philadelphia. In 2000, Pat went to Tampa, Florida in the Diocese of St. Petersburg, where she again was at the Office of Black Catholics and in parish social ministry. She remained in Florida eleven years, living with a family where the wife was from India and husband from Trinidad. In 2011, Pat came to the Motherhouse at Nazareth. Her health was a great challenge for her but, whenever she was able, she sang at Mass, many times composing the songs herself according to the liturgy of the day. (​As I complete this narrative of a quite unusual life, the news of Sister Pat’s death has been sent to us. She was a gift to the SCN Community and to God’s people, especially championing the rights of our brothers and sisters in the black community. We have to admire Pat’s courage in entering a then all-white community and then bravely calling our Community to remember that racism has no place among us. We know that we 10 �have promised to follow the Gospel mandate that “We are all one.” We can thank God for the example of her life and courage.) Therese Arru, SCN, Interviewer Maria V. Brocato, SCN, Editor 11 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Therese Arru, SCN Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Patricia Haley, SCN Location The location of the interview Nazareth, KY, USA Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Patricia Haley, SCN Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Haley, Patricia, SCN; Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource SCN Archival Center Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived SCN Archival Center Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 11/1/2018 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Maria Vincent Brocato, SCN, Editor Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for any type of publication of archival materials, including text, photographs, video, or audio must be secured from the Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Archival Center before publication. Contact archives staff for appropriate forms and contact information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MMC-PatriciaHaley Sisters of Charity of Nazareth https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/24b22cb8bc93057d9a2dbc01c6c428aa.jpg 0c4122c09ab1674e76d2d453bb3e26b1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Poor Box from St. Patrick’s Asylum, Manhattan Subject The topic of the resource Poor boxes Charity Orphanages St. Patrick’s Orphan Asylum (New York, N.Y.) Description An account of the resource The first New York mission of the Sisters of St. Joseph in New York, the Roman Catholic Orphan Asylum, was incorporated in 1817. Known as St. Patrick’s Asylum due to proximity to St. Patrick’s Old Cathedral, the orphanage was quickly filled, to capacity. To raise funds for a new building, a poor box was placed in St. Patrick’s Orphan Asylum by Sr. Elizabeth Boyle, who became the first Mother Superior of the Sisters of Charity of New York in 1846. The donations placed in the poor box were a source of support for many. The word, ‘Charity’ in gold, capital letters is painted on the front of box; a wood cross is positioned on top of the box. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Unknown Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul of New York Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available N/A Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource ca. 1820 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource N/A Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for reproduction or quotation must be obtained through written application to: Director of Archives, Sisters of Charity of New York, 6301 Riverdale Avenue, Bronx, New York, 10471. This permission is valid only insofar as he Archives of the Sisters of Charity of New York, as owner or custodian, has any rights in the matter and does not remove the responsibility of the author, editor, and publisher to guard against the infringement of any rights; including copyright, that may be held by others. Relation A related resource N/A Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Wood, with painted gold lettering Stand: 48” tall Charity box: 8” (tall) x 4” (width) x 2” (depth) Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Physical Object Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context N/A Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant ca. 1822-1862 Sisters of Charity of New York https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/7036c758f5250569b7a9313df4758586.jpg 249346de0e21a1c7efbede2f1d40b445 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/7f8f3f6f334dde31d704095ddfa1d06d.mp3 2900074c85f9a889bd52664e01ae58e6 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/6d59ed82cab1b9c7bf17ce8ff3eaa0d6.pdf 5c613c22494c46a15c892ed7afc07236 PDF Text Text TAPE #252 PRESENTION BY SR JUDITH METZ....10/28/96 SISTER MARIE AGNESE BONANNO Both of Sister's parents were born in Italy, were married in Italy, in fact, they had their first two children while they still in Italy. She says: “When my oldest sister was 2 years of age and my second oldest brother was 6 months old my parents decided to come to America wanting to make a better life for their family. My uncle Bill lived in Cleveland, so my father went and stayed with him until he earned enough money to send for his wife and children. He worked in a canning factory, but the heat made him sick there. Later the moved to Muncie, Indiana where my mother's brother lived. Both of my parents had gone to school in Italy and knew how to read and write.” Sister Marie Agnese, or Anna Maria, which was her baptismal name, was the 6th of 11 children in the Bonanno family. When she was growing up, the family moved to Lima, Ohio. She says, “We had a very happy home-life and enjoyed one another's company. We were poor but we were never hungry. We each had our own small and intimate friends, but I can never remember having a toy to play with because there were 5 older and 5 younger children in the family and I helped care for my younger sisters and brothers. At the direction of my parents, we would call on the elderly women living on our street, and since my father had a grocery store, we would often bring bags of fruit with us to give them. My parents were very active people , loved by their friends, and they were devout Catholics. I used to go to an early Mass every Sunday, then go to a second Mass later just I could go with my father. My parents apparently were kind of leaders in the Italian community in Lima. They used to write letters for the Italians living in Lima who wanted their loved ones backin Italy to know how they were doing in the new land. I can remember my mother writing love letters for some younger men who had left their sweethearts in Italy. Msgr Manning, the Pastor of St. Rose Church, used to ask my father to round up all the Italians in South Lima whenever an Italian priest, or a priest who spoke Italian came to the city to hear confessions or give a mission. My father was a true social worker who constantly helped others to better themselves. Mother worked hard cooking and sewing and taking care of the 11 of us children. During my youth, my father had a grocery store and also had a vegetable and fruit stand in the market house in South Lima, so I decided to go with my older sister to help wait on customers. We all attended St. Rose School in Lima taught by the Sisters of Charity. Some of the teachers were loving and kind, and from their example, especially Sister Martha Marie whom we all loved. I knew, when I was in the 6th grade that I wanted to be a Sister of Charity. I started to go to 6:30 Mass every morning and make the stations of the cross after school. When I finished my sophomore year I decided to enter, otherwise I would lose my vocation. About this time a friend of the family asked my parents for my hand in marriage. When my father told me, I expressed the fact that my only desire was to become a religious. �2 Father Williams wanted me to go to a diocesan community like the Visitation Cloistered Sisters or the Sisters of Mercy in Toledo. But, I wanted to enter the Sisters of Charity. My parents were very helpful in buying my clothes even though they seemed sad because they thought they were losing me. They purchased everything on the list and surprised me with a dollar. My mother made my Postulant outfit with the finest French serge. Because I had never been on a train, my father took me to Dennison, Ohio in May to visit my uncle. The day finally came when I was to leave my parents, brothers and sisters. My last request was that my father, brothers and sisters walk the five blocks to the train station with me. Mother could not go, which made me sad, however, I felt better when, after a block away, I returned home and kissed her goodbye again. At the station were Sister Agnese McGuire , Sister Sarah and Sister Mary Agnes and some of my best friends and neighbors. The day was July 6, 1923 and I was 17 years old.” When she entered the Community, her Mistress was Sister Flavia. “Three months after, I received the brown habit as a Novice and was named Sister Agnese, the name given to me by Mother Irenaea.” After she completed the Novitiate, she was missioned in September of 1924 to Holy Name in Cleveland. When she arrived there she was told to teach the 1st and 2nd grades. She said, “The Sisters were gracious and lovable and gave me a good welcome. For four years I taught the 1st and 2nd grade, 3rd and 4th grade, and 4th and 5th grade. And then I taught the 5th grade for five straight years. I enjoyed teaching. I was taken out of school in 1933. The Pastor wanted Sister Eugene and me to do Parish Visitation. He had recognized various situations like invalid marriages, unbaptized children, and some who had not made their First Communion or been Confirmed, and some adults who had stopped attending Sunday Mass. For six years I labored among the parishioners doing home visitations as part of the parish staff. In 1939 I was put back into the classroom teaching 8th grade for two years and was again asked to continue with parish visitations. This I did until 1943. After 19 happy,beautiful years at Holy Name, I was missioned to social work in the Archdiocese of Cincinnati. The previous year, Msgr Marcellus Wagner, who was the Director of Charities in Cincinnati had expressed an interest in arranging a program to benefit underprivileged and retarded children in the Catholic Schools of the Cincinnati area. He had contacted the Mothers General of all the Communities who were serving the schools in Cincinnati asking each Community to give one Sister whose work would be to go to the Catholic Elementary Schools and consult the Principals concerning children who presented a psychological or emotional in the school. Msgr entitled this program as School Social Service. All of the Communities contributed one Sister except for one. Sister Carlotta was the Sister of Charity missioned to do that work. As they identified children who had these psychological needs they eventually became the basis for what became the Springer Institute. It was established in 1940 as a school for exceptional children. �3 Because all of the Communities were not able to respond to Monsignor's request for Sisters, he asked for the Sisters of Charity to give him an additional Sister to do this work. And, it was at that time, in July, 1943 that Sister Marie Agnese was missioned to do this social work in the Archdiocese of Cincinnati. In addition to the School Social Service work, she was also assigned to do case work in the family division of Catholic Social Services throughout the Diocese. She recruited students for the School for Exceptional Children by consulting school Principals about writing psychological histories. She also worked very closely with the Principals of the schools in terms of identifying these children, and also with the Pastors in order to get the children in the right place as far as their education was concerned. She served at Catholic Charities from August, 1943 until September of 1947 at which time she was appointed Administrator of Santa Maria Institute, and the following year as Superior of the Institute. She doesn't tell us very much about her years at Santa Maria. Msgr Wagner contacted the Community because he wanted to send her to Washington, D.C. To get a Masters Degree in Social Work, but Mother Mary Regina Russell said she could not go, but would give the opportunity to another Sister. Monsignor Wagner refused. Using the experience that she had gained at Catholic Charities, she was able to carry that forward through her years at Santa Maria. So, from 1947 until 1954 she was the Superior and Director of Santa Maria Institute. She said, “There were many problems involved at Santa Maria because money was so scarce. After seven struggling but happy years, in September of 1954 I was again missioned. This time to Saint Joseph Infant and Maternity Home where I remained until 1960.” So, for those six years, she was the Director and Superior of St. Joseph Infant and Maternity Home. She says: “At the time that I went to the Infant Home there were 60 Sisters there. Thirty of them were retired school and music teachers, and the other thirty worked in the home with duties such as nurses with the care of the newborn infants, toddlers, the milk lab, and as childcare workers for the groups of children from ages 2 to 5. The children stayed there until they were transferred to St. Joseph Orphanage. Some Sisters worked as secretaries and some worked as cooks. We sometimes had over 200 children to care for at a time. About in 1958, the five year olds were sent over to the orphanage. So, from that year on, we only had newborns to four year old children. We had 45 unwed mothers at a time when I first went to the home, and never less than 30. In June of 1954, the Maternity Hospital that served not only our own unwed mothers, but the people in the neighborhood and any mother who wished to have their baby delivered there, was discontinued. After that, our girls were delivered at Good Samaritan Hospital. Since the Sisters couldn't drive at that time, John Marie and later with Sister Veneranda drove the unwed mother ready for delivery to the hospital. �4 Parents brought their daughter to the Infant Home in the 3rd or 4th month of pregnancy, and girl remained with us until they delivered. They returned to the Infant Home after delivery and stayed from 6 weeks to 3 months. They were asked to pay $125. This included medical and hospital care as well as food and shelter at the Infant Home. Later, a social worker from Catholic Charities decided that the girls from out of town would pay $150. Sister Grace Marie and Sister Eugene Marie, administrators of Good Samaritan Hospital were most understanding, so they would take nothing for the hospital bill unless the girls were able to pay. Most of the girls gave their babies up for adoption, as not even their own brothers and sisters knew they were pregnant and thought that they were away at college or visiting relatives. We were not successful in getting tutors or teachers from the Board of Education to come to the Infant Home, so we did the best we could in teaching crafts, crocheting, etc. Before I was sent to the Infant Home, the girls worked in nurseries for 8 hours a day. Since I thought they were not there for punishment, I brought their work hours down to four. Sister Veneranda, the excellent nurse in charge of this department gave them love and understanding. The nurses in training at Good Samaritan Hospital came and stayed for several months at a time, and were taught child-care from the head nurse. They lived on the first floor vacated by the senior citizens who had lived at the Infant Home for years. Our financial problems were always a source of worry as we received very little from United Appeal. We were permitted, by them, to hold a festival every July. Other sources of income were card parties and our Christmas Appeal . Many school Sisters came in the summer to help with the children, or went on begging sprees to get prizes donated for our festival. A few unusual things happened in my years, such as finding baskets with a precious newborn infant at our front door. Our girls ages ranged from 12 to 49 and came from all parts of the United States. Several times, government officials came to the Infant Home as “white slavery” was prevalent in Kentucky. They talked to the unwed mothers who were involved. One evening, about 5.00 p.m. A 49 year old woman who lives several blocks from the Infant Home came to our front door to ask for help. As she started to talk about her problem, our supper bell rang. She begged me to go to supper, and I promised to return. It was about 6:30 p.m. And she said that she had been driving all morning and passed the Infant Home about 10 times trying to decide what to do. As she passed a bridge going into Kentucky, she felt like throwing herself in the river . She was three weeks away from delivering and asked to stay. I was able to reach Mrs. McGuire, our Social Worker from Catholic Charities and Msgr Kramer, the Director who said to keep her there and help her. The Infant Home served Protestant as well as Catholic girls, girls of every race and color. One morning, a beautiful Protestant girl about 25 years of age came from Kentucky to the Infant Home. She said that when she told her parents she was three months pregnant they told her to leave and never to return. She could not think of a place to go and felt that God directed her to us. She had no money and only the clothes she was wearing. She said �5 she couldn't help the baby, and wanted to give her child up for adoption. Six months later, when she did deliver, the baby was mongoloid and became a ward of the state of Kentucky. However, one night, when her baby became seriously ill, Sister Michael Ann, the nurse on duty baptized the baby and when the baby was better, it became a ward of Catholic Charities. My story wouldn't be complete if I failed to tell you of our good fortune when a beautiful young woman came to my office in September of 1956 to ask if we had a Guild. Nancy Ilendorf was that person (NOT SURE ABOUT THE SPELLING OF HER NAME). I called Msgr Kramer at Catholic Charities and he asked me to send her to his office. He, in turn, consulted with Archbishop Alter. He said that in the 10 years he served in Cincinnati, no one had ever come to ask to do anything for any of the social service institutions in the Diocese. They were both happy for us, but not as happy as the Sisters at the Infant Home. Nancy's family and friends started by having a card party, and our first $100 and $200 were like pure gold. Many of our families, friends and relatives were our first Guild members. Sister Ellen Joseph Walsh was fortunate in hiring Nancy who worked as secretary/receptionist for about 20 years **(someone in the audience said that Nancy was still there at the time of this presentation)** Without her work and encouragement with the Guild for the past 30 years, I doubt that it would be the success that it is today. Our Infant Home loves and appreciates what the Guild has done to help the Sisters, the children and unwed mothers as well as what they give to the Infant Home.” So, she spent 6 years doing the work there at the Infant Home, and then in 1960, she was missioned to Good Samaritan Hospital in Dayton as Personnel Director. After spending a year in that Department, she was asked to open a new Social Service Department which she ran from 1961 to 1969. She was very much an advocate of the hospitals establishing social service departments. In one paper that she wrote in 1962 she writes, “These are some of the things that I think our Community should pursue in the are of social service. At present, of the seven hospitals operated by the Sisters of Charity, only 2 have Social Service Departments. At Good Samaritan Hospital in Dayton, I opened one in 1961, and Good Samaritan in Cincinnati opened its Social Service Department in 1962. These were operated by lay social workers. I feel that all of our hospitals should consider the establishment of Social Service Departments. And, since the Community has sent Sisters away to study for their Masters Degrees in Education and hospital work, they should likewise educate Sisters in Social Work.” Then she tells about when back in 1943 when she became involved in social service work for the Diocese with Catholic Social Services how she was able to do for the parents of the children involved in that program. Then she goes on to say, “I'm sure that all of our schools have some needs for a social worker who would act as a liaison between the families, the pastor, the teacher and the school principal. Our apostolate could be extended to Sisters who have not necessarily reached retirement age, but retired because they were unable to do a full day's work in school. They might be able to visit nursing homes and/or serve as Sister/Visitatrix in hospitals. I believe it would be an excellent idea also for our teachers to go �6 into the urban areas which I assume are the same in all cities.” She decided in 1969, after having served as the Director of the Social Service Department in Dayton, that she wanted to go West because she had never been there. But, in the meantime, Sister Grace Marie, who was at the Good Samaritan Hospital in Cincinnati, asked her to come there to re-organize the Department of Religion, as she called it. She did this for one year. But, finally, in 1970, she went West. She went to Penrose Hospital and she served as Information Clerk from 1970-1975. She says, “After 5 ½ years at the Information Desk, Sister Myra James asked me to work in social service, which I did until 1977 when I left there. I tore a tendon in my right leg, and I was determined not to be a burden to anyone, so I asked to retire to Mount St. Joseph. I worked in the Craft Department in Mother Margaret Hall and helped to supply the Motherhouse gift shop with items to sell. Later, I learned that St. Elizabeth's Residence was a Sister of Charity project, and so, I asked to go West. I received my letter of acceptance in late September, and went to St. Elizabeth's in 1980 and stayed until 1984 In 1984 when she returned to Cincinnati, she learned that St. Joseph's Center at the Infant Home was open. So, she decided to go out there once again. Once there, she became very active doing craft work and crocheting work and she supplied things for the Center. There isn't anything in her file about this time, but I know that her family got really involved in doing some of that work and wound up building the garages. The gift shop was renamed Bonanno. She was really active out there at the Infant Home in her later years running the thrift shop and making things to raise money for the children who were living at St. Joseph Home. By that time, Saint Joseph Home had changed its ministry from maternity home to a home for the profoundly retarded . So she spent her last years very active out at there. She died September 16, 1991 at 85. THIS NEXT SECTION CONTAINS MEMORIES FROM SOME OF THE SISTERS Sister #1: When she came to Dayton, there was no personnel department. She really organized that and she included the information about the Sisters on staff. Sister #2: Some member of her family was in the liquor business and they supplied St.Elizabeth's Residence in Colorado Springs with the best wine they had ever had. Sister #3: She was my ?? grade teacher . She was very warm and loving, and I think she was like Sister Anne Hermine, if it wasn't written down you didn't have to worry about it. END OF THE TAPE �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Cincinnati Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Metz, Sister Judith, SC Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio/cassette Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 31 Minutes 45 Seconds Location The location of the interview Cincinnati (Ohio); Cleveland (Ohio) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Presentation on Sister Marie Agnese Bonanno, SC by Sister Judith Metz, SC October 28, 1996 Subject The topic of the resource Sisters of Charity of Cincinnati; Monasticism and religious orders for women -- Catholic Church -- History; Community-based social services -- History Description An account of the resource A presentation on the life and ministerial works of Sister Marie Agnese Bonanno that was researched and presented by Congregational Archivist and Historian Sister Judith Metz. The program ends with Sisters in the audience sharing some of their remembrances of Sister Marie Agnese. This recording is a part of the oral history series housed at the Sisters of Charity of Cincinnati Archives. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Bonanno, Sister Marie Agnese, SC; Metz, Sister Judith, SC Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of Cincinnati Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 10/28/1996 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Delisle, Sister Lorraine, SC (Transcriber) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Online access is provided for research purposes only. For rights, reproduction, and use requests or more information, please contact the Sisters of Charity of Cincinnati Archivist Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio/mp3 Audio/cassette Application/pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Presentation on Sister Marie Agnese Bonanno, SC by Sister Judith Metz, SC October 28, 1996 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1906-1991 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Sisters of Charity of Cincinnati Archives Oral History Series Sisters of Charity of Cincinnati Social Service https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/e976a825d0e9ddfc48c6e1987cbe429c.jpg 82dc7acda5480823fcce065bd5635542 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/fef430a1a97f2724f739b028a3bf03fa.mp3 c889980d1a5afef874daa1489466ae3f https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/c13ac725586c9573c5d37e38d8ffdb16.mp3 355e0c45caaa5286e79a1088b58fb646 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sister Sara Louise Reilly Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sister Dorothy Marie Quigley Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio cassette tape Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 31:32 31:33 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 96kHz Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Quigley, Sister Dorothy Marie Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Sister Dorothy Marie Quigley Description An account of the resource An oral history of Sister Dorothy Marie Quigley, a Sister of Charity of Seton Hill from 1941 until 1993. The interview was conducted by Sister Sara Louise Reilly on June 3 and 10, 1984. Sister Dorothy Marie Quigley was born on July 15th, 1912 in Erie, Pa. Daughter of William James Quigley and Florence Elizabeth Flanagan, Dorothy May Quigley entered the community on March 25th to May 18th, 1938. Then, she re-entered on September 8th, 1941 at the age of 29. Sister Dorothy Marie was an elementary teacher from 1944 to 1952 at Cathedral, Altoona. She went on to teach in the Home Economics Department at Seton Hill College in 1955. During the summer sessions of 1960-1964 and 1974, Sister Dorothy Marie taught Child Care in the Home Economics Department at Seton Hill College. She directed the Seton Hill Day Care, and by 1978 there were four federally centers and four state-funded centers. This was the first head start program in Westmoreland County; Seton Hill Day Care Incorporated. They received federal funding in 1966 to start the Seton Hill Day Care Inc., which was the country's first Head Start early-education program for children. Sister Dorothy Marie served as the Director of the program for 17 years and she supervised its expansion to include 12 day and home care centers throughout the city. Sister Dorothy Marie received her B.S. in Home Economics from Seton Hill College in 1954. Then, she went on to Cornell University to receive her M.S. in Home Management and Foods in 1960. In 1983, she coordinated the PACT - Pregnant Adolescent Child Care Training. Sister Dorothy Marie Quigley passed on September 7th, 1993 at the age of 81. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Archives of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984/06/03 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource All rights belong to the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill, Greensburg, Pennsylvania. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio cassette tape Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OH-92 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/09949f91ef7bf01e600b33aea06d5426.jpg 8326cc3a4657486cd56e51ad20ed8e8c https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/1ed7318f195737913bea8666f0621060.mp3 1fb0fc65ace16bbc8b81ce1604e2ea89 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/c4558a10e8fd2aa8520bac132da57748.pdf 0ef74f0b5bb72e5d3db878f85cb4aaf9 PDF Text Text Sisters of Charity of New York Interview with Sr. Patricia Quinn, SC September 26th, 2019: 10:34AM • 36:32 Angelica Bullock 00:00 Today is September 26th, 2019. The interviewer is Angelica Bullock. The interviewee is Sister Pat Quinn. We are in the Archives at Boyle Hall and we are in the Reading Room. And the time is 1:37 pm. Sr. Pat, can you state your full name? Sr. Pat Quinn 00:25 My full name is Sr. Patricia Ann Quinn. Angelica Bullock 00:32 And your religious name? Sr. Pat Quinn 00:36 My religious name, Patricia Carmel Quinn. Angelica Bullock 00:42 And what is your current age? Sr. Pat Quinn 00:44 Right now? I'm 73. Angelica Bullock 00:48 And do you remember the day that you entered the congregation? Sr. Pat Quinn 00:53 I do remember some of it. I don't remember all of it. I remember coming my parents and my family. And being out on the lawn. And then at a certain, of course, my mother was upset. Not that she wasn't happy for me. She was just upset that I was leaving home, I guess. And then I remember I suppose a bell rang, and we went in to the postulatum and changed into our postulatum, lot of clothes, postulant clothes, and came back out. I think we came back out, I'm not sure. I know we had benediction that day before the parents left. So that's all I remember about that day. It was a long time ago. Angelica Bullock 01:39 Do you remember what was your age? Sr. Pat Quinn 01:41 I was 17 and-one-half at the time, and that was 1963. And I've been in the congregation now 56 years. Hard to believe; the time has gone by very fast. Angelica Bullock 01:56 Okay, so now we're going to just talk a little bit about your family life. Where were you born? -1- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Pat Quinn 02:03 I was born in Manhattan on the Upper West Side, actually on West 105th Street, and that's where I grew up and lived until the time I entered. My parents had come from Ireland in the 1920s and from the same town, Longford, in Ireland, and I had one sister and four brothers; I'm sorry, not four brothers, three brothers. There were five of us all together. One brother is my twin brother, Mike. So there were five all together. I had a cousin in religious life, she was Sr. John Carmel. That's how I got to have Carmel as part of my religious name and she later became my sponsor when I entered. The parish I belonged to was Ascension on West 107th Street was the church, on 108th street was the school that I went to for grammar school. Then I went onto Blessed Sacrament High School on West 70th Street. Angelica Bullock 03:23 And how did you pick those schools, or how did your parents pick those schools? Well, in those days, like now, you had to take a test to get into the high schools. And that school was close to me, I was on 105th and that school was on West 70th street and it was also a Sister of Charity school. So I guess the location helped a lot, you know, it wasn't that far to go because you had to go by bus. So then when I entered, of course, I went to the college here (College of Mount Saint Vincent). And I also went to Hunter College. I got my master's degree in Hunter (College), and I got another master's degree from St. Joseph's Seminary, Masters of Religious Education. Angelica Bullock 04:19 What was your Masters degree in? Sr. Pat Quinn 04:20 From the Mount (College of Mount Saint Vincent), English. That was my first degree. And at Hunter my Master's was in teaching reading. So I was in school you might say from in college anyway from '63 to '81. Angelica Bullock 04:42 Wow. Sr. Pat Quinn 04:45 And sometimes going down to Hunter after teaching all day, because that's when you took your courses for your Masters. So you taught all day, then you got on the subway, went down to Hunter, came back at night. Angelica Bullock 04:59 That sounds tiring. Sr. Pat Quinn 05:01 It was tiring. Angelica Bullock 05:02 Did you usually do that travel by yourself or were you doing that with other sisters? -2- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Pat Quinn 05:08 It depended on the course. Another Sister in my group lived with me at the time. I can't remember if we had courses at the same time, though. Could be we went together, I forget. But it was after school and Saturday mornings sometimes, depending on the course, as I said. Angelica Bullock 05:35 And how did you decide to get Master's degrees? Did your superiors suggest that to you? Or was that something you wanted to do? Or a little bit of both? Sr. Pat Quinn 05:44 Well, no, when I first was assigned, I was assigned to St. Peter and Paul School in the South Bronx. And I had to finish my degree here at the Mount. So I went on Saturdays till I got that degree and then after that, we didn't really have superiors assigned to us. So it was really by choice. But you needed to have a Master's degree, you know. And since I was in school, I enjoyed getting the Masters in teaching, reading, since I was teaching younger kids. And then I went on in the Seminary for the MRE. That was a choice also. Angelica Bullock 06:29 Can you talk about your time at the Seminary a little bit? Sr. Pat Quinn 06:33 Well, it was just classes that were held at the Seminary that you could get a Master's in religious education. I wasn't part of the Seminary with the fellows who were studying to be priests. It was classes that you could get after school or on a Saturday so you can get your degree. It was good. The classes were good. It was taught for the most part by Seminary professors who were teaching the seminarians So they were good courses, you know, in dogma, morality, scripture. There was a fourth one I forget what it is, morality, I forget. So I got my degree there and I think it was in '81. Angelica Bullock 07:22 Okay, let's go on. Why did you join the Sisters of Charity of New York? Sr. Pat Quinn 07:28 Primarily because of the Sisters that I met at Ascension and Blessed Sacrament. I had a cousin who was a Sister of Charity at the time, and I wanted to teach especially young children, and that was the charism of the Sisters of Charity; education. I waited till after high school because I kept on fighting with myself whether I really wanted to do this or not. So I said, "I think I will just enter and get this off my mind." So I had a petition to Mother Loretta Bernard, she was the President of the Congregation at the time, and the Council. And I waited til the last possible day to petition and thinking if I didn't like it, well, I will leave, but at least it will be off my mind, and I will stop thinking about whether I wanted to be a Sister of Charity or not. So it's obvious I didn't leave; here I am. My sponsor was my cousin, Jackie Dunne. She was Sr. John Carmel. She was my first cousin. And so she became my sponsor. My parents didn't object, they said whatever you want to do. They wanted me to be happy. So whatever I wanted to do, and that's what I wanted to do. So I petitioned and entered on September 8th, 1963. -3- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 09:11 Did you think that maybe it was easier to have a cousin who was already a Sister in the order? Sr. Pat Quinn 09:20 I guess it was, but after I entered I didn't see her, except well, maybe a couple of times during the year, they had Saturday or Sunday that we have sponsored visits. And then everybody's sponsor would come that day, but I didn't see her any more frequently than I did before I entered. Angelica Bullock 09:51 Were you in different buildings? Sr. Pat Quinn 09:55 Well, I was here at the Mount she was over I think at the time at St. Barnabas. When I entered I remember going up there to talk to her at Barnabas. And then she was in other places as the years went on. But that's where she was when I entered. I liked the Sisters that I had in school. I loved my first-grade teacher. Sr. Thomas was her name, Sr. Thomas Marie Callahan. And my eighth-grade teacher, Sr. Marion Margaret Sullivan, both of whom are deceased. And of course then I also had my cousin, But the sisters in grammar school and high school were really an inspiration. You know, they were always there. They gave us a good education. You know, and I liked seeing them walking around the neighborhood. After school, I guess they went out in partners and they walked. We would always see them on the avenue walking. I felt like they were with us, you know, in the neighborhood. When I became a postulant, I had Sr. Agnes Connelly. She was the mistress of postulants and Sr. Kathleen Hanrahan was the mistress of novices. And I truly enjoyed the novitiate. I liked everything about it. Even though at times I was homesick, I still enjoyed being there. You know, and they were very good. Later on we had the juniorate. It was one of the first juniorates and it was located up here in LeGras. Yeah, it was in LeGras and that was the juniory. One time, Sr. Ellen Quirke in charge of the juniory. She gave me a task, she's gave me a can of green paint to go out and paint all the windowsills. Well, I did but, unfortunately, I never stirred the paint. So every windowsill was a different green. So she said, "Didn't you stir the paint?" I said, 'No, I never painted windowsills before in my life.' But anyway, so that was interesting. After the juniory, I went up to St. Joseph's (Seminary) here in Yonkers to live. To get some more courses done. That was an innovation too. Because until then, it took the Sisters years and years to get their first degree. We had the opportunity of studying while we're in the juniory and also, another year after that, we lived on mission and we came back each day for classes. So we really were able to get, credits and that was a great help to us. Because when we were sent down on mission, there weren't that many more courses that you needed to get on a Saturday. Because you had many of your credits done. So then it was at that time of Vatican II. When I was in the novitiate, Vatican II started. Things were always changing in the Community and in the Church, so you kind of got used to rolling with everything. We were the first ones who entered who wore veils, instead of those white shower caps that you see a postulant, pictures of postulants wear; we didn't have any of that. People came with their curlers and -4- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �the veils were see-through, they would just like net and that went across and it tied behind, underneath your hair, see-through So that was a big innovation for the Congregation. Then as time went on when we came to First Vows, they had a habit, a newly designed habit that was supposed to look more like Mother Seton. It was designed by Bergdorf Goodman. It was shorter; the capes were very short. None of us liked it. Angelica Bullock 14:29 Why not? Sr. Pat Quinn 14:31 First of all, we didn't like looking different from everybody else. We did have that same high collar, and we wore black, sheer stockings with it. And pumps, we didn't have those tie Oxfords that we had. We had pumps, but I don't think any of us enjoyed wearing that. We were supposed to wear it on Sundays but most often we went back to what we had been wearing as novices. But things were always changing at that time. And that year after the juniory when I was sent to St. Joseph's, Yonkers is where I met my dear friend, Sr. Kieran (Mulligan). She was stationed and teaching there, and we became fast friends from that time on. I only lived with her there for that one year, but our friendship has endured all these years. Yeah, we just clicked right off. You know, I thought I was going to be staying there because they had said that the mission that you went to where you were studying for that year would be the mission that you would be assigned to. However, there were no class openings. So for most of us, they had to change us, because there were no classes to give us. For the most part, we were teachers. So that's when I was sent after that year down to St. Peter and Paul for my first teaching. I taught the second grade there. Angelica Bullock 16:13 And you have any memories from St. Peter and Paul you would like to share? Sr. Pat Quinn 16:21 Well, we had great kids. We had a big school. We had about 500 kids in that school when I first went there. And it was a very good school. It has since closed, it closed last year there. But the kids were great. The parents were great. It was a nice community there of people and sisters. When I went there, there were 12 sisters. Not that everyone was in the school but they were in the Convent. And we did aside from teaching, we did do home visiting, we visited the families, in their home and a lot of time in the evening you could send for parents. They would come to the Convent if you had problems with the child, to talk to you. So, I also did the CCD and I ran the CCD there. So that was another, from First Communion all the way to Confirmation I taught, and I ran it. So we were very busy there. I was at St. Peter and Paul for 36 years. And then when the Convent closed, I moved up to St. Peter. St. Peter to teach, but I lived up in Sacred Heart at first and then I moved from Sacred Heart to the Mount where I am now. Angelica Bullock 18:06 How did you feel when it closed. The school has been around for a long time? -5- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Pat Quinn 18:12 The school was still around but what happened was that the Sisters were aging. We had Sisters there, some had died, but we had Sisters who got sickly and had to go to the Convent of Mary the Queen. We couldn't keep that Convent going and it closed in 2014. I traveled back and forth for one year to that school while I lived up in Sacred Heart. But we had no Sisters. Michelle McKeon was the principal there at that time when it did close, just within the last year or two it closed. It's a charter school, I think. We used to have not only our school, but we had a branch of Cathedral (High School) there. They could go there for one year. So we also had the girls from Cathedral. It was a nice school. Angelica Bullock 19:21 Do you have any opinions on Catholic schools now, especially since your schools have Sisters in them? Sr. Pat Quinn 19:31 Well, we don't have many Sisters in the schools. Because we don't have the Sisters. It's unfortunate, but it's harder and harder to run the schools money-wise. So I go to St. Peter twice a week, as do some of the other Sisters as volunteers. But we don't have any sisters on staff. In most of the schools, it's lay faculty. Years ago, the Sisters of Charity had the schools up and down Manhattan, practically every parish up and down there were Sisters in. But we just don't have the Sisters now. But the lay staff is doing a great job with them. But money continues to be a big problem. And it's very hard for people to afford tuition. I don't know how they do it. They must give up a lot because the tuition is so high. A funny thing happened, there was a little boy that I taught at St. Peter. I taught him in the first grade. And every day I would see his mother and say hello to the mother. He was there for first, second, third and I think fourth grade and each day I'd say hello to the mother and sometimes the father would be there waiting to take this little boy home. They moved up to Wappingers Falls, and they lived opposite our school up there, St. Mary's, that we have in Wappingers Falls. We don't have the Sisters there. Sr. Kieran (Mulligan) was there for a long time. Anyway, I was up there one time just within the last three or four weeks. And who did I meet in Walmart of all places, but this mother. And so we're standing there talking, and we're talking and talking. It turned out, I had taught the mother in St. Peter and Paul. Now when I think about her I say I think I do remember her as a little child, but I would have to see a picture. Well, she was so shocked. She said, "I did have a Sr. Patricia," not realizing I was the one. We haven't seen or talked to each other about school, you know. I never realized and she was so shocked, and she said, "Oh, my sister is here. You taught my sister, too." So she brought over her sister who was shopping. We had a great conversation about people they knew, people I knew who was there. They knew the Sisters that had been there. As one of them said, her sister said, "The sisters there were like our mothers because our mothers were working and not there all the time." You know, but they said, "The Sisters were like our mothers. When we were got to school, we were at home." Of course, the little boy goes to school up there now, but she says, "Wait till I tell Ensly," that's the little boy, "wait till I tell him that you were my teacher too." So you never know where you're going to meet these kids now who are not kids anymore. They're adults raising kids, but we had nice people there. Angelica Bullock 23:13 How do you feel about your students that still remembering you and the nice words? -6- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Pat Quinn 23:19 Oh well, that's nice. Yes. And it's nice to see that they've gone on and they're successful, and that they enjoyed their time in the schools. I'm still in contact with some who have their own children. Now, this girl in Florida that I taught I think I taught her in the fourth grade. She has a girl now who's a senior in high school. And we email back and forth, and she sent pictures and things. It's nice. And it's nice to know that they appreciated the sisters that were there and the education they received. There's a boy in All Hallows that I taught; he's a teacher in All Hallows. So it makes you feel good that they have gotten something from their education and have gone on. Because that was not the greatest neighborhood when we were there. But the kids took advantage of their education and they went on to do well. So that's very good. Now, what I'm doing is going to St. Peter. I'm also teaching English classes here in Sr. Jean (Bocian) and Sr. Therese McElroy's Casa de Esperanza and I enjoy doing that. That's the other end of the spectrum where you have adults. I'm so used to having little kids. Although they have their little babies with them in the classroom, which is sometimes a challenge, but it's nice to be with the adults and they really want to learn their English. So that's good. I wouldn't want to change anything that I've done. Angelica Bullock 25:14 The students at Casa de Esperanza, where are they mostly coming from? What country? Sr. Pat Quinn 25:22 Well, there were was, let me see today in class, I just started this year now today; several from Mexico. There was a Muslim lady, and I couldn't get exactly the country, she said, but she was not Hispanic. Someone was from Guatemala. So a lot of the central Hispanic countries there, Central America, Mexico. Angelica Bullock 25:56 And how much English do they have coming into the classroom? Sr. Pat Quinn 26:01 They've been coming, they came last year every day, four days a week. I think Friday is the only the day that they don't go. So they're pretty good. The ones that I have are what we call the second year. So they have some English and then after the second year there's a class that's all conversation. They're anxious, very anxious to learn. How does it feel still being a teacher? Still teaching? Well, I guess that's what I was made to do. I was made to teach. I enjoy it. Although they bring their babies, sometimes it gets a little noisy. You know, the baby's crying. They want naps and you're trying to teach. But it's still good. And it's nice that they want that English. And it's a nice program for them. You know, I get to meet other young mothers who have little babies like they do, and they can bring the babies with them and that's very important. There is in that same building the Board of Education, Yonkers Board of Education has English classes, but you can't bring your kids with you. Which means these young mothers wouldn't be able to come unless they had someone who would mind the babies and the babies are kind of young to leave them with other people. But this way, they bring them with them and they have little things in the back of the room and they have a woman who takes care of them. They have toys and stuff like that and yet they know their mother is there. And the mothers can learn, they can meet other people. There's coffee after class, so they can have a cup of coffee before they start going home. And they can make friends with other people, who are in the same boat as they are. They drop -7- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �their children off, some of them were telling me they have kids in kindergarten and pre-K in another school that they bring them to first, so it's not easy. Then they come to the English class. So it's not easy for them; they want to learn. That makes it nice being with them. They're a nice group of women. How does the mission of the Sisters of Charity relate to my work? Well, education has always been mission of the Sisters of Charity. So I'm walking in the footsteps of Elizabeth (Mother Seton). And I never wanted to teach older kids. The oldest grade I ever taught was fourth grade for one year. But I wasn't happy with it, that didn't have anything to do with the kids. But I like the spontaneity of the little ones. They're funny, they give you a good laugh every day. Not maybe when you're in the room, but later when you think about it, so that was funny. So I would say, yes, that is the mission of the Sisters of Charity to be in education. And you meet a lot of fine teachers and parents, aside from the kids, so all those relationships are good. When I entered President John F. Kennedy was the President. As a matter of fact, I was only a postulant a couple of months. He was assassinated in November of 1963. We had no TV but they brought a TV into the novitiate room so we could see all the news reports on that. It was also the time Lyndon B. Johnson then of course, took over for him. They gave him the oath in Air Force One. And they didn't have a Bible with them. So they used the St. Joseph's missal, which must have belonged to President Kennedy, because who else would have a Catholic missal in the plane? That's what they used. It was also the years of Martin Luther King, when he had the March on Washington, 250,000. And he gave the 'I Have a Dream' speech. So I was here for that. It was the year that the cassette tape recorder was introduced, larger than that one that you have, but that was like a big innovation to have a cassette tape player. So that was part of the history. Angelica Bullock 29:10 There was a lot going on. Sr. Pat Quinn 31:13 There was a lot going on. And then after that we had the Vietnam War. Yeah, a lot going on. Angelica Bullock 31:19 Did you feel all that stuff going on? Did you feel like you were keeping up with everything current? Or did you feel like you were kind of behind because you were... Sr. Pat Quinn 31:32 We were behind because we were in the novitiate. And the only time we would get to newspapers, was when we took the garbage out and we lined the garbage can with newspapers, but you might not be able to read recent news. Who knows when you got those papers may have been sitting there for months, but at least you could read something while you were lining the garbage can. That was how we got our news. Because we didn't have TV or radio. No. If visitors came, like my mother came for a visit and she said something about, "The Beatles have arrived." I thought it was the bugs. The Beatles. I didn't know what she was talking about. It was the strangest thing. The Beatles have arrived. I said, "What is that?" And she said, "Oh, it's a singing group." We didn't know any of that. No, because you were really closed off. -8- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �However, we did have the World's Fair in let me see, '64. I was a first-year novice. We didn't expect that they would let us go because the first year of novitiate was like cloistering. But we got to go. We went on buses and we had a wonderful time. I remember being there with my mother, my father, my twin brother. I can't remember if my other older brother was there, he may have been. But I know my twin was there. And we had a great time at the World's Fair, wonderful. Part of it was that we just didn't expect, we figured everyone else would go, but we won't be able to go. So things were constantly changing. They were new surprises all the time. Angelica Bullock 33:31 Was it hard to keep up with all of the changes in the outside world, and then also any in your community or were you just used to it? Did it not seem unusual? Sr. Pat Quinn 33:44 Well, we didn't really keep up with the outside world. There was no way without TV, radio and newspapers. You know, unless you heard, as they say, from visitors or something, you know, we were cloistered in that way. Unless somebody mentioned that they heard this or they heard that. You know, you didn't really know. Angelica Bullock 34:12 How did you feel about that? Sr. Pat Quinn 34:16 Looking back I think we just didn't expect that we would be hear what was happening. You knew there were no TVs and no radios, you know. So you just, you know, lived each day. We had our studies to do, we were going over to the college for courses. And that was a new thing also that we took classes with the girls and the college. That was new. Of course, it was hard because we had to do that work, but we were on a very different schedule than the girls. We had a regular regimen and at nighttime, we had a study hour. Well, you know all the work you have to do in college. You had more free time when you were in the juniory. I remember going over to the Castle (Font Hill at Mount Saint Vincent), it was the library at the time. And I was taking Shakespeare, a course in Shakespeare, and they had all the tapes over there. And you could sit in the library and listen to the tape while you were reading it, which made more sense to me than anything, and that was really nice. Then they couldn't use that library anymore. I think the building itself, the structure, I guess, was not safe to have a lot of people in it. But in those days, that was the library and it was nice. You know, but you had to keep up with your classwork. And then we had other duties that we were doing, so you didn't have an awful lot of time when it was study time. You have to really try to put your mind to it. I already mentioned that I have a twin brother, Mike. That was always an Irish joke. There were always jokes about Pat and Mike. And that's what we are, Pat and Mike. I don't see him often because he's in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And I enjoy, I love being a Sister of Charity. I love seeing and meeting and being with a dedicated and fine group of women who have an extraordinary history. -9- Transcribed by https://otter.ai � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of New York Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Patricia Quinn, SC Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bullock, Angelica Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) Location The location of the interview Mount Saint Vincent, Bronx, New York Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Quinn, Sister Patricia, SC, Interview Subject The topic of the resource Quinn, Patricia, SC Interview, Oral History Description An account of the resource Inspired by her cousin Sr. John Carmel Dunne, her sponsor in the Community, Sr. Patricia Quinn details her life as a Sister of Charity of New York from her early experiences as a postulant and novice. Sr. Patricia was an elementary school teacher for over 50 years and during her retirement, continues to tutor at St. Peter and Paul School and at Casa de Esperanza in Yonkers, N.Y. Sr. Patricia earned a Master's degree in Teaching and in Religious Education. Sr. Patricia's love of learning and teaching young children is evident in the stories she relates about her teachers and her students. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Quinn, Patricia, SC Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of New York Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 9/26/2019 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mindy Gordon (Editor) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for reproduction or quotation must be obtained through written application to: Director of Archives, Sisters of Charity of New York, 6301 Riverdale Avenue, Bronx, New York, 10471. This permission is valid only insofar as the Archives of the Sisters of Charity of New York, as owner or custodian, has any rights in the matter and does not remove the responsibility of the author, editor, and publisher to guard against the infringement of any rights; including copyright, that may be held by others. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Quinn, Sister Patricia, Oral History Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant New York City Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Sisters of Charity of New York Education Sisters of Charity of New York https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/0b2ba40b59f156ba80c0035e1cee9a35.jpg 9e48e6e5ae5a0edab0ec393cca52999d https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/843d340d99d6b78cb02f51eec98710b7.pdf 610021b0f37d06f00f104522ab70dc5e PDF Text Text Sisters of Charity of New York Interview with Sr. Ellen Quirke, SC Tuessday, October 15, 2019, 1:32PM • 42:27 Angelica Bullock 00:00 Today is October 15th, 2019. The interviewer is Angelica Bullock. The interviewee is Sister Ellen Quirke. We are at the Kittay (nursing home, Bronx, N.Y.) apartments. And it is about 3:15 in the afternoon. Sr. Ellen, can you please state your full name. Sr. Ellen Quirke 00:24 Sr. Ellen Quirke. Angelica Bullock 00:26 And your religious name? Sr. Ellen Quirke 00:29 Sr. Ellen Marie Quirke. Angelica Bullock 00:33 What is your age currently? Sr. Ellen Quirke 00:36 I'm ninety-two years old. Angelica Bullock 00:40 And what date did you enter the congregation? Sr. Ellen Quirke 00:42 September 8, 1945. Angelica Bullock 00:46 What was your age at that time? Sr. Ellen Quirke 00:49 Seventeen. Excuse me no, I was eighteen. Angelica Bullock 00:53 About how many years have you been in the congregation? Sr. Ellen Quirke 00:57 Seventy some-odd years. -1- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 01:01 Now I would just like to know a little bit to talk about some general information concerning your family life. So where were you born? Sr. Ellen Quirke 01:11 I was born in Manhattan, in New York City, to Mr. and Mrs. Quirke, Helen O'Connell and John Quirke, and I had three brothers, Jack, Neil and Bud. And I was the only girl. I was the third oldest of the four of us. Angelica Bullock 01:38 And where were your parents born? Where were their place of origin? Sr. Ellen Quirke 01:43 They were both from Ireland County, Abbeyfield, County Limerick. Angelica Bullock 01:47 Do you have family members and religious life? Do you have any other family members...? Sr. Ellen Quirke 01:53 One brother who was a Jesuit, Neil was a Jesuit. He died in 1968 and another brother. had been a Christian brother and he left the order and married. That was my brother James, my younger brother. My oldest brother Jack died when he was 23. Angelica Bullock 02:25 Besides your two brothers, did you have any other family members in religious life, maybe in Ireland? Sr. Ellen Quirke 02:31 Here in this country, I had another cousin who was another Jesuit. Same time as my brother Neil, Bob O'Connell. Angelica Bullock 02:43 What were the schools that you attended? What grammar school and high school? Sr. Ellen Quirke 02:48 Incarnation Grammar School and Holy Cross Academy. Angelica Bullock 02:54 Were those schools run by the Sisters of Charity? Sr. Ellen Quirke 02:58 Both of them were yes. They both were. Angelica Bullock 03:01 And why did you attend those two schools? -2- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Ellen Quirke 03:07 My mother wanted me to go. Angelica Bullock 03:11 Why did you join the Sisters of Charity of the New York? Sr. Ellen Quirke 03:16 I was very interested in Damien the Leper. Reading his biography, and I just wanted to be able to help people. He was a priest who worked in Molokai down in the Hawaiian Islands. Worked with the lepers down there. Angelica Bullock 03:36 How did you hear about him? Did you hear about him in school? Sr. Ellen Quirke 03:39 Yeah, yes. In school. During religion classes. Angelica Bullock 03:47 Was he a priest? Sr. Ellen Quirke 03:48 Yes. Angelica Bullock 03:52 Did you think you are going to work with people with leprosy or did you just... Sr. Ellen Quirke 03:56 No, I thought more like missionary things. Angelica Bullock 04:02 You said you joined when you were 18 years old? Sr. Ellen Quirke 04:05 Yes. Angelica Bullock 04:08 How did your family feel about you joining? Sr. Ellen Quirke 04:11 Fine, there was no problem with them? For the most part, the Irish are really proud to have religious in the family. -3- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 04:21 Can you talk a little bit about the process of becoming a sister? Do you remember anything that stands out? Maybe first day of joining or...? Sr. Ellen Quirke 04:31 No, not particularly? No. Angelica Bullock 04:35 Do you remember your sponsor? Sr. Ellen Quirke 04:38 Yes. She was my eighth grade teacher. Angelica Bullock 04:47 Do you remember her name? Sr. Ellen Quirke 04:49 Yes, Sr. Marguerite. Angelica Bullock 04:51 Would you like to talk a little bit about your life as a novice and a postulant? Sr. Ellen Quirke 04:57 It wasn't really remarkable at all. I kind of went along with the rules and regulations were. What I found hard was the silence and the walking in lines. I found that very difficult. Angelica Bullock 05:16 When did you have to be silent? Were there just certain times during the day? Sr. Ellen Quirke 05:20 Oh, yes, yes. Angelica Bullock 05:25 What would happen if you weren't silent? So, if you wanted to talk to someone... Sr. Ellen Quirke 05:30 Well, you'd be embarrassed in front of the other people because you know it was a rule, to keep silence and you wanted to keep the rules if you're going to stay in the convent. Angelica Bullock 05:40 Can you think of anyone at that time who broke the rules? -4- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Ellen Quirke 05:44 No. Angelica Bullock 05:45 Everyone mostly... Sr. Ellen Quirke 05:46 No, pretty much everybody kind of went along with it pretty much. Nobody stands out because having broken the rule. They wouldn't have stayed, I don't think Angelica Bullock 06:03 How many people have joined with you? Like how many people were in your ... Sr. Ellen Quirke 06:06 I think there might have been around twenty-four, twenty-two, twenty-four. I'm the last one left of that crowd. All the others have died. Angelica Bullock 06:24 Did you know any of the girls before your joined? Were they in your high school or in your neighborhood? Sr. Ellen Quirke 06:32 Oh, yes. One of my friends lived next door to me. She was born next door to me. And she entered too. I had some of my high school friends enter but they entered later on not at the same time. Angelica Bullock 06:51 Okay. And did that comfort you knowing that you knew people already going in with you? Sr. Ellen Quirke 06:59 I don't remember it comforting me at the time, but I guess it must have. Yes. How did you feel joining? Were you nervous? Were you excited? I can't say I was excited because I forget there was some popular song that was going on at that time was right when WWII was over, just over. And I was going the night before out with my friends and we were going on a sentimental journey; it wasn't so sentimental. But I was nervous the night before. Angelica Bullock 07:36 When you enter at eighteen, times have changed so much, eighteen now is considered very young. But when you were eighteen are you considered an adult, did you feel like you were an adult? Sr. Ellen Quirke 07:51 Well, boys could go into the service; they could be drafted. That was the WWII. So, we weren't considered young, we weren't considered old, but we weren't youngsters. -5- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 08:08 Did you have any friends or know people who were eighteen that were at the time getting married or.. Sr. Ellen Quirke 08:16 No, I didn't know anybody, no. Angelica Bullock 08:18 So, if you weren't going to be a Sister, what did other people do at the age of eighteen, that were eighteen-year-old girls? Sr. Ellen Quirke 08:29 They mostly went to work at General Motors or the New York Telephone company, or in the bank, Manufacturers Hanover bank. They got jobs. And the boys were away in service then. Angelica Bullock 08:49 Were any of your brothers at the time drafted? Sr. Ellen Quirke 08:54 No. Angelica Bullock 08:55 Do you remember anything about more times than when you were ... Sr. Ellen Quirke 08:59 Oh, I remember an awful lot about it. The blackouts and the fear that we were going to be bombed and that the Japanese boats were in the ocean, we were down at the beach. Always afraid of being bombed. We'd have the blackouts. And then seeing the stars on the window with the mothers who lost their sons afterwards. We were living in apartment houses. They'd have their stars on the window and another one had been killed. Angelica Bullock 09:33 What exactly are black-outs? Just like today, no power? Sr. Ellen Quirke 09:39 You had to shut off the electricity. You weren't allowed to put the electricity on because they were afraid the airplanes would come and bomb the building. So, the streetlights went out and they had wardens going around the street to make sure the lights were out. And you had rationing of certain foods you couldn't get unless you had a ration stamp for them. Angelica Bullock 10:01 Since you're so young, does that just seem like a normal life? -6- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Ellen Quirke 10:06 No, no, no, no. You knew it wasn't normal. Angelica Bullock 10:13 Is there anything else you remember during that time? Sr. Ellen Quirke 10:17 About the war time? Always hearing, fearing to hear about another boy in the neighborhood who was killed or a father who was killed and you couldn't get all the shoes you wanted. You could only get two pair of shoes a year. Angelica Bullock 10:34 Wow. Sr. Ellen Quirke 10:34 You had to have ration stamps to get them. You didn't have nylon. Nylon was used for parachutes. So, you couldn't get nylon stockings or nylon slips. Angelica Bullock 10:51 And what was your life as a novice and postulant like? I'm going back to that, sorry. Sr. Ellen Quirke 10:57 Well, it was getting to know what the routine was going to be and we were going to school, we were studying at the same time, going to college and getting classes. Angelica Bullock 11:08 Do you remember who the Mother Superior was at the time? Sr. Ellen Quirke 11:11 Yes, Sr. Alphonse Mary [McGinley, 1945-1950] who was a very generous woman, very human. Angelica Bullock 11:22 What made her generous and human? Sr. Ellen Quirke 11:25 That was her nature to be that way. She wasn't rigid. Some of those superiors could be very rigid. Angelica Bullock 11:37 What was your relationship with the Mother Superior? Did you see her every day? Or was it more of like she was there, but you didn't really have contact with her. Sr. Ellen Quirke 11:50 She was there. We knew she was there. We were conscious of her presence, and sometimes she'd have a class, and we'd be learning things, she'd be teaching us. -7- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 12:03 Do you remember the name of the Mother General at the time? Sr. Ellen Quirke 12:08 There were a couple of when I entered it was Mother Berchmans [Mother Mary Berchmans Reed, 1948-1954] was the second. I didn't know her at all. I knew Berchmans, but I didn't know Josephine [Mother Mary Josephine Taaffe, 1941-1948]. Angelica Bullock 12:23 During that time, how did you interact with the other girls who were joining? Did you get to talk to them? Sr. Ellen Quirke 12:30 Oh surely, yes. Angelica Bullock 12:34 Did you all live together? Sr. Ellen Quirke 12:36 Yes, we all lived together. Slept in dorms. And we worked together. And we went to school together. Angelica Bullock 12:50 Other Sisters have mentioned that it took them very long to complete their degrees because they were working. Sr. Ellen Quirke 12:57 Oh, we were teaching at the same time, and going to school on Saturdays. Angelica Bullock 13:01 Okay. Sr. Ellen Quirke 13:03 That changed in the '60s. We all had teaching certificates to teach, and we had to have a certain amount of College before you could teach. Angelica Bullock 13:16 About what age do you think you started teaching then? Sr. Ellen Quirke 13:22 I was twenty. Angelica Bullock 13:26 Do you remember your first mission? -8- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Ellen Quirke 13:28 Oh, yes. It was at St. Margaret's in Riverdale, third grade for eight years. So, I got to know the all the children of that time. Angelica Bullock 13:45 Did you always teach the third grade? Sr. Ellen Quirke 13:46 Yes, in St. Margaret's I did. Yes. But I moved around after that. Angelica Bullock 13:54 I'm guessing I haven't heard any sister say so far that they've stayed at that one teaching assignment for that many years. Did you like doing that? Sr. Ellen Quirke 14:05 I did, I loved the third grade. That's a great age group of children. Angelica Bullock 14:11 And did you teach girls and boys there? Sr. Ellen Quirke 14:14 Yes. I had sixty in a class. Angelica Bullock 14:17 How many? Sr. Ellen Quirke 14:18 Sixty. And they were taught. Some places had one hundred. Angelica Bullock 14:26 Did they all fit in a regular size class? Sr. Ellen Quirke 14:29 Yes. But the desk was stationary. They weren't moveable desks and chairs. Angelica Bullock 14:40 Did you ever feel overwhelmed teaching sixty children? Sr. Ellen Quirke 14:44 No. No, I liked teaching and I think that's why I liked it. And I liked the kids very much. Angelica Bullock 14:56 Are there any of those students that you still, remember? -9- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Ellen Quirke 15:01 Yes. Some of them come to see me. Angelica Bullock 15:06 So, when you first started teaching that first year that you were put in the classroom for third grade, did you expect that's how the situation was going to be? Did you expect that you were going to have 60 students in your class? Sr. Ellen Quirke 15:23 I didn't think about it, I didn' think about it. Because the classes were big when we went to school ourselves. The classes were always big. Angelica Bullock 15:35 During that time, I just think of 60 kids I just think of rowdy... Sr. Ellen Quirke 15:41 No, oh no. They wouldn't dare; they wouldn' dare. Angelica Bullock 15:47 At St. Margaret's all the teachers there were Sisters of Charity? Sr. Ellen Quirke 15:52 No, not all of them. We had lay teachers. Angelica Bullock 15:58 Do you remember any of your other missions? Sr. Ellen Quirke 16:01 Oh yes, of course. Do you want to know them all? Angelica Bullock 16:04 Sure! Sr. Ellen Quirke 16:05 The next year after St. Margaret's, I went down to Holy Name on 97th Street, fourth grade boys. Boys' department at Holy Name, brothers had the boys' department. I was there for a year. That's when we became very aware that the Puerto Ricans were coming into New York City and into the schools. It was the influx of a lot of Puerto Ricans. We had a lot of Puerto Rican children in the school. And the Sisters, I didn't go, but the Sisters went to Puerto Rico in the summertime to learn Spanish. That was around 1956. Angelica Bullock 16:50 And were most of the students then who were coming from Puerto Rico, were they mostly just speaking Spanish? - 10 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Ellen Quirke 16:56 Yes. A lot of them were. I didn't have them all. They were mostly in the first grade at the time. They started in the first grade. And I was there for a year and then I went down to Xavier. I had the fourth grade in Xavier. Angelica Bullock 17:17 And was that co-ed or just boys? Sr. Ellen Quirke 17:19 Now in Xavier it was boys and girls. Smaller class. I believe around thirty-five. And then I went one year there and then I went to St. Agnes' to the seventh grade. Angelica Bullock 17:22 Oh, okay. Seventh grade? Sr. Ellen Quirke 17:39 Loved it, loved it. I learned so much in being with the children younger and then when they get older and then older; you got older with them. And you knew how to deal with the older ones. Weren't sarcastic. Of course, they understood it and they knew it then. And I was only there a year and I went to St. Denis in Yonkers, the eighth grade. And I loved the eighth grade. We had a great time together. Angelica Bullock 18:16 And how long were you at St. Denis? Sr. Ellen Quirke 18:17 One year. Angelica Bullock 18:18 One year? Sr. Ellen Quirke 18:20 And then I went to Mount Carmel in East Harlem, an Italian neighborhood, with a lot of Puerto Ricans on the fringe of the neighborhood who didn't get along with the Italians at all. And the Italians didn't get along with the Puerto Ricans, I should say. However, that was a good experience, being Principal of the school. Learning different cultures and respecting them. Angelica Bullock 19:14 How was your transition from teacher to principal? Sr. Ellen Quirke 19:18 It was fine. I was ready for it. - 11 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 19:30 Mount Carmel, was that run by the Sisters of Charity? Sr. Ellen Quirke 19:33 Yes, yes. All the schools were that I mentioned. Angelica Bullock 19:39 Were the teachers there mostly Sisters or lay or a mixture? Sr. Ellen Quirke 19:44 No, we had lay teachers, we had quite a few lay teachers. The one that was there sent me that package from David's [mail order dessert company]. She came to teach the fourth grade there. Angelica Bullock 20:03 How long were you at Mount Carmel? Sr. Ellen Quirke 20:05 Three years. Angelica Bullock 20:13 I'm looking at this timeline ... Sr. Ellen Quirke 20:16 We are up to 1960. Angelica Bullock 20:18 Okay! Sr. Ellen Quirke 20:20 '61 to '64. That's when I was at Mt. Carmel. Angelica Bullock 20:29 Then where did you go after Mt. Carmel? Sr. Ellen Quirke 20:31 '64 to '69, Mount Saint Vincent. We had juniorate. Angelica Bullock 20:43 Can you describe what that is? Sr. Ellen Quirke 20:46 It's a formation program, after the novitiate. - 12 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 20:53 And what was your... Sr. Ellen Quirke 20:54 The Sisters were going; I was in charge; I was the boss. I was the Superior. And they were studying at the time too, studying in college. So, it was further introduction to religious life for them and going, learning about the missions and visiting different places where the Sisters worked. The roaring '60s, and all the changes were taking place in the Church and in religious life, like losing the habit, changing the habit, and wearing regular clothes and all of that. Angelica Bullock 21:45 And how did you feel about all the changes that were happening? Sr. Ellen Quirke 21:49 Oh, I just loved them. I was ready for them. And I learned a lot from the young people. They taught me a lot. They didn't know they were teaching me, but they were. Angelica Bullock 22:03 Do you remember when you changed from the habit? What year or so? Sr. Ellen Quirke 22:14 1969. My mother was so disappointed when she saw me with gray hair. Because she had had the same problem. She didn't see the gray hair before because we had the hats on. Angelica Bullock 22:31 Oh, I see. So then, how old were you about in 1969? Sr. Ellen Quirke 22:38 You figure it out. Angelica Bullock 22:39 Okay! Sr. Ellen Quirke 22:42 Forty-three. Angelica Bullock 22:49 You had gray hair at forty-three? Sr. Ellen Quirke 22:52 Oh, yes. I had it earlier than that. Angelica Bullock 22:55 Did your mom have gray hair too at a young age? - 13 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Ellen Quirke 22:57 Yes, she was young. She used peroxide one day and my father nearly killed her when he came home for it. It was awful when she used peroxide; they didn't have the dyes they have today. Angelica Bullock 23:11 There's just one point where there's no people that are wearing a habit. And then they’re wearing a modified veil and then... Sr. Ellen Quirke 23:23 That was while I was in the juniorate they started doing that. The postulants, the novices, the young sisters were doing the modified veil. Angelica Bullock 23:34 Why the change from the habit to the modified veil was that... Sr. Ellen Quirke 23:41 It was just doing it gradually. It was just gradual. Some Communities did; one Community that I know of, she went from the habit to the dress, immediately. They didn't do in-between. We did a lot of the inbetween. We started with the shoes and the stockings, and then the length of the skirt, the habit, the hat changed to the veil. It took long; they should have done it all at once and then it would have been over with. Angelica Bullock 24:16 And who decided these changes and habit… Sr. Ellen Quirke 24:21 From the habit? Well, that was a little part of the movement that was going on in the church about all the changes. And when they started talking about all different kinds of changes that were going on. They talked about religious life, that it wasn't necessary to be wearing these kinds of clothes that made yourself so different from everybody else. Angelica Bullock 24:44 And besides habits, do you remember the other changes that were happening during that time in the Church? Sr. Ellen Quirke 24:58 Really, a lot was changed. A habit was only a symbol of all the changes that were going on. I mean, it could even start with an attitude toward God and learning more about theology and the meaning of this, and that caused the changes. Angelica Bullock 25:20 This was also a time when a lot of people weren't leaving, maybe that was a little bit later. - 14 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Ellen Quirke 25:29 No, they were leaving at that time. Angelica Bullock 25:31 Okay, they were leaving. How did you feel about that? Sr. Ellen Quirke 25:37 It was very difficult, because your friends, some of your friends were leaving. And it was a testing time for your own vocation. Angelica Bullock 25:50 Were there any points during that time when you began or at any point really, when you began to question if you wanted to be in Sister or did that never happen? Sr. Ellen Quirke 26:06 I'm sure it went on. You would be a stone if you didn't think of anything and wonder sometime what was going on. Yes. Angelica Bullock 26:22 Were there ever feelings of contention with people leaving or did you feel happy for them? Sr. Ellen Quirke 26:28 Oh, it was very difficult when they left. It's very difficult to see people leaving. And it was shocking when it first started. It was very shocking because that never happened. One person would leave in five years. So, do you want to go on with the rest of my life? Angelica Bullock 26:58 Yes. Sorry, I had you staying in '69 for a long time. Okay. And where did you go... Sr. Ellen Quirke 27:06 Well that was an important part of my life, very important. Angelica Bullock 27:11 And where were you after Mount Saint Vincent? Sr. Ellen Quirke 27:15 In '69 I went to the Foundling and worked for Foundling [The New York Foundling]. I went into social work after Foundling. I went to Fordham to study social work and worked at Jacoby Hospital for a year in the rehab department. Angelica Bullock 27:45 What made you switch from going to ... - 15 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Ellen Quirke 27:48 Well, I had been dealing with older women and I wasn't qualified for grammar school, elementary school teaching and I didn't want to go back to teaching elementary school. So, I went into social work, studied at Fordham, social work. Angelica Bullock 28:10 And did you like your time at Fordham? Oh, yes, yes. Sr. Ellen Quirke 28:23 I graduated in '72 and then I went to work at St. Joseph's Hospital in Yonkers in the mental health clinic. Angelica Bullock 28:34 How long were you at St. Joseph's? Sr. Ellen Quirke 28:36 I was there for four years doing counseling and group work. And then in '76 I went to St Vincent's Hospital, worked with the homebound elderly. Angelica Bullock 29:03 And this was the St. Vincent's in Manhattan? Sr. Ellen Quirke 29:06 Yes, Manhattan. Community Medicine. We had this program for the homebound elderly where we went to visit people in their own apartments, with a doctor and a nurse. Angelica Bullock 29:22 Can you talk a little bit more about that? I've seen in the archives, the Community Medicine part. That's with Dr. Brickner? Sr. Ellen Quirke 29:30 Yes. I worked with him and Sr. Teresita [Duque], she was the nurse. Dr. Brickner wasn't the only doctor; we had all the resident doctors would go out from the Battery up to 34th street, from the River to 5th Avenue. Got to know the whole neighborhood, elevator apartments and walk-up apartment. Apartments where they had bathtubs in the kitchen; they were that old. Angelica Bullock 29:38 How was that experience, being a part of Community Medicine and actually going out into the community instead of them coming to you? Sr. Ellen Quirke 30:11 I loved it; I loved it. A lot of walking and meeting a lot of different people, different people, different kinds of people. - 16 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 30:19 What did a normal day for you look like at St. Vincent's? Sr. Ellen Quirke 30:24 Oh, you'd have meetings in the morning, find out who you were going to go out to see. Who you were visiting and who you thought needed to have you go because you needed to provide services for the older people. Find out about their rent or if somebody was bothering them. The family was involved. They needed help, assistance. They needed to get money from the bank. They needed the groceries. Angelica Bullock 30:27 Were most of the homebound elderly that you were visiting. Did they live by themselves? Sr. Ellen Quirke 30:59 Some of them lived by themselves. Most of them live by themselves. And they didn't want to go to a nursing home, tried to keep them out of the nursing home so they could stay in their own homes. Angelica Bullock 31:10 Were nursing homes popular back then? Sr. Ellen Quirke 31:12 No, they still aren't popular. And here I am. When Dr. Brickner found out I was coming here, uhh! Angelica Bullock 31:21 Was he surprised that you were coming here? And what was life like for you working at that hospice program? Sr. Ellen Quirke 31:22 I didn't want it; when I was in the other place. He has since died. But of course, when I was, it was a big joke keeping me out of a nursing home. And then the other department I worked in at St. Vincent's, after I finished in '92, I went to work at the hospice program we had at St. Vincent's. The Supportive Care Program, we called it for people with AIDS. It was hard. It was difficult because you had so many young people dying, and then the nurses were taking care of them needed a lot of support. And the families, I had families, groups for survivors for their relatives and those who had died. After that, I went to work at the senior center four years, St. Malachi's Church Senior Center. Angelica Bullock 32:28 And where was this that was on 47th Street, Sr. Ellen Quirke 32:33 The Actor's Chapel, they called it. Angelica Bullock 32:36 And what did you do there? - 17 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Ellen Quirke 32:37 Social work. The people that came there, they needed things, to be connected to agencies or needed help with their families or whatever. Angelica Bullock 32:51 So, it seems like you had two different careers. Sr. Ellen Quirke 32:55 Yes, three different careers really, because that formation work, that was different. Angelica Bullock 33:01 Do you think that the three different careers were all at different points of your life? So that's why it made sense. Sr. Ellen Quirke 33:08 No, no, no, I didn't think of that. Well, the experience of the first led me to the second and led me to the third. - 18 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of New York Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Quirke, Sister Ellen Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bullock, Angelica Location The location of the interview The New Jewish Home, Kittay Senior Apartments Bronx, New York Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Quirke, Sister Ellen, SC Oral History Description An account of the resource Sr. Ellen Quirke discusses her journey as a Sister of Charity of New York encompassing two distinct ministries in teaching and social work. Sr. Ellen describes the changing needs of bilingual students in New York City during the 1960s-1970s and her venture into geriatric health care in the pioneering Department of Community Medicine at St. Vincent's Hospital in Greenwich Village. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sisters of Charity of New York Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of New York Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 15 October 2019 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mindy Gordon, Transcriber, Editor Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for reproduction or quotation must be obtained through written application to: Director of Archives, Sisters of Charity of New York, 6301 Riverdale Avenue, Bronx, New York, 10471. This permission is valid only insofar as the Archives of the Sisters of Charity of New York, as owner or custodian, has any rights in the matter and does not remove the responsibility of the author, editor, and publisher to guard against the infringement of any rights; including copyright, that may be held by others. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant New York City Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Sisters of Charity of New York Subject The topic of the resource Sister Ellen Quirke, SC Sisters of Charity of New York https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/3aebb8db442ada8cc6b49c8a8cf0f041.jpg cc9e1308e4aa6af96f5c2522c70cd4f4 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/9a52d17af0a4058316c26739513c87b9.pdf e3d7695e39acdac83d1cb4a5c0b46d91 PDF Text Text Sisters of Charity of New York Interview with Sr. Claire E. Regan, SC Thursday, 7/30/19 1:32PM • 42:27 Angelica Bullock 00:00 Today is July 30th, 2019. My name is Angelica Bullock and I'm interviewing Sr. Claire Regan. We are in Sr. Claire's office right now in LeGras [Sisters of Charity Center Administration Building]. Will you state your full name and your religious name? Sr. Claire E. Regan 00:22 Claire E. Regan. I use the 'E' because there's another Claire Regan in Community so I started using the 'E'. Claire E. Regan and that is also my given name. Angelica Bullock 00:37 What is your current age now? Sr. Claire E. Regan 00:39 Sixty-five. Angelica Bullock 00:44 When did you enter the congregation and how old are you? Sr. Claire E. Regan 00:49 I entered at age twenty-nine and it was 1982. Angelica Bullock 00:56 And how many years have you been in the Congregation? Sr. Claire E. Regan 01:00 It will be thirty-seven years in September. Angelica Bullock 01:05 So first we're going to talk a little bit about your family life. Where were you born and where did you grow up? Sr. Claire E. Regan 01:12 I was born in the South Bronx and baptized in St. Luke's Church. And then my family moved when I was an infant to the projects in East Harlem on 99th Street, the Carver houses and we were parishioners of St. Francis DeSales Parish. I went to St. Francis DeSales school for elementary school. -1- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 01:44 And where did you go for high school? Was it an elementary kindergarten through eighth grade? Sr. Claire E. Regan 01:52 High school, I went to the Bronx High School of Science in the Bronx. Angelica Bullock 02:00 Can you tell me a little bit about your parents, their name, their place of origin, their occupation? Sr. Claire Regan 02:09 My father was Peter Regan. And he was born in County, Cork, Ireland, in 1904. He died in 1980 at age 76. I was 27. My mother was Catherine Boyle Regan, like Elizabeth Boyle, which always kind of tickled me. So, my mother was Catherine Boyle Regan. And she was born in Bayonne, New Jersey of Irish parents, who emigrated here and settled in New Jersey. Angelica Bullock 02:53 Do you know how they met? Sr. Claire E. Regan 02:55 Yes, my father was a boarder in the house. My mother's Aunt had a boarding house, and my father was a boarder there. And my mother would help prepare meals on Sundays for the men. And she met my father. Angelica Bullock 03:14 Do you have any siblings? Sr. Claire E. Regan 03:16 Yes, I had four siblings. Two of my brothers have pre-deceased me. Daniel, Peter, Daniel deceased at age sixty-two, Peter deceased at age fifty-one. I have a sister Kathy. She's currently age sixty-nine and a twin brother James. Angelica Bullock 03:42 And are any of your siblings in religious life? Sr. Claire E. Regan 03:45 No. No one in the family ever was. No. Angelica Bullock 03:52 And where did you go to college? -2- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Claire E. Regan 03:56 I started at NYU [New York University] as pre-med. I dropped out after my second year. I think organic chemistry was my downfall. I did not do well on the early testing and I just dropped out from NYU. Plus it was the days of pot and hippies and free love and all that kind of environment in the Village. I wasn't all that comfortable with it at the time. So, I dropped out and really felt I needed to make a living to earn my lifestyle, earn my way. I recently moved into an apartment with my sister and paying rent and the bills while I was getting money part time was not enough. So, I wanted to work full time and make a living, and then financially help my family in some way. Angelica Bullock 04:54 So, what were you doing for work? Sr. Claire E. Regan 04:57 I worked at Blue Cross Blue Shield. I answered telephones for the Dental Claims Department, all kinds of subscriber questions and queries. "Where's my claim?" "Where's my check?" "You paid me the wrong amount." "What are my benefits?" We would hear from dentist subscribers.The group representatives took any and all phone calls for the Dental Department. We also handled the written correspondence to the members when they had questions or issues about a claim payment, whether it was correct or incorrect, what were the benefits that were applied. That kind of thing. Angelica Bullock 05:40 Did you like doing it? Sr. Claire E. Regan 05:42 We got volumes of calls that I did for about five years and I said, "I can't answer another phone call!" Then I wanted to go into the claims examiner claims adjuster side of things because the pressure from the general public, the subscribers, was getting intense. We had more and more contracts coming in, and fewer people to handle the phone volume. And I said, "I'll work on the claims." Because the problems we were getting on the phone, I said if work on the claims side and fix the claims, we won't get half the calls. So, I figured I'll take a promotion and work as a claims adjuster, which I did, but that was boring as heck. After about a year-and-a-half of that, I took a promotion to be a statistical clerk in management services. And I did statistical work management services. And in about a year-and-a-half into that I saw an opportunity to look at graduate education and that the company would sponsor me for a graduate degree which I didn't think I had the chance of a snowball. But my colleagues in the Dental Department said, “If you're going to go on to school, apply for the scholarship and see what happens, but don't just, you know, go on and act like you'll never have the chance.” And I won on the scholarship. So, I was paid my salary and full tuition was paid by the company for two years and I went to Chicago to Northwestern University, the Kellogg School of Management in Evanston, Illinois. And I lived for two years just north of Chicago in Evanston, Illinois. And my degree was in health and human health and hospital services, health and hospital systems management, that's HHS health and hospital systems management. Hospital systems were just beginning at that time. It was a brand new venue and also HMOs [Health Management Organizations] were coming into more of a public awareness. I can't say acceptance, they were still a little -3- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �experimental in terms of public acceptance, but HMO was becoming a model for the delivery of health care, primary health care especially. So that was the era in which I was getting my graduate degree. Angelica Bullock 08:23 And how old were you approximately when you are getting your graduate degree? Sr. Claire E. Regan 08:28 Twenty-four to twenty-six. Angelica Bullock 08:32 Because you said that at that time you were twenty-four to twenty-six? Sr. Claire E. Regan 08:36 I was twenty-five to twenty-seven. Angelica Bullock 08:38 Twenty-five to twenty-seven. And you joined the Sisters of Charity at 29. Sr. Claire E. Regan 08:49 When I finished, when I came back from my graduate degree, it was 1980. My father died a few months after I came back to New York, and it was after that, that I experienced a sense of a call to vocation. I hadn't much thought about being a nun at all. It was never anything that appealed to me. And certainly, I was on a fast track for the management level, officer level at the corporation. So, this was kind of an unexpected inconvenience, my vocation, my call. But it was done in October, it was maybe about that Thanksgiving that I started to get this idea, did you ever think of being a nun? It was a crazy idea that must be foreign? And I was always faithful going to Church and I helped at my parish. I gave scholarships to young people who were working in the day camp for the summer, I would pay for one or two of those counselors to get the salary paid for them. I was very generous in the collections. I was active, and it happened that this Sister of Charity came to the parish just at that time when my father died. And she and I were working, and she put me to work on things I've never done before, liturgy planning, some faith sharing. It was something called the renew program. I was like, “I never did that before.” She said, "You can do it, come on, you can do it." "But I've never done this before." "You can do it.” That was Sr. Carol D'Angelo, and she came as a social worker to the parish and was doing outreach to the families in the home. And so, with God's call and inspiration, the question wouldn't go away. Then Sr. Carol, I would meet with her. They started to have some discernment meetings for vocation here at the Mount [Mount Saint Vincent, Bronx, NY]. Once a month, little gatherings of women who might be asking the question, and so I went to those meetings and then I pursued the matter through Sr. Carol's help and contact with the Community and so on. And I say I entered through Mount Carmel. That was the local convent on the 116th street. So, I tell people I entered through Mount Carmel. -4- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 11:19 So, what did your family think about you joining the Sisters? Especially, what did your mother and your siblings think? Sr. Claire E. Regan 11:30 Yeah, my father was dead at the time. My mother was not happy. She said I was hanging out with that Sr. Carol too much. And I knew it was going to be a difficult conversation. But God inspired me and I had the answer. I said, “You know, Mom, if there's anybody to blame, it's you and dad.” She didn't have an answer for that. So God spared me, that really quieted her down but, she wanted to have grandchildren and I was going to be the one. So anyway, after my first year, when I was entering novitiate, my mother came to me and said, I see that you're happy and so on. But she wasn't at the beginning. Angelica Bullock 12:14 What did your siblings think? Sr. Claire E. Regan 12:17 I was crazy. "And what are you doing? What? Do what? Become..." I mean, my friends, my siblings. My sister tells me that she went to my mother and said, "Can you believe this thing that she's doing?" And my mother said, "You know, she was always different. Even as a little kid." I would always go to the little religious article store we had in the neighborhood and buy those holy cards for birthday gifts and little statues and rosaries, Bibles, kind of little religious articles for anybody's birthday or my parent’s anniversary, something for the house. So, my mother said to my sister, in these offhanded conversations, when I guess they were trying to figure me out, said, “You know, she always was a little different." So that's kind of where I guess they came to terms with it. I was a little different, I was naughty. Angelica Bullock 13:11 And how did you feel entering at the age of twenty-nine? Sr. Claire E. Regan 13:16 I was giving up a lot. I didn't own a car or a home, but I was giving up my credit cards, my bank accounts, my career path. That was the biggest thing. I was giving up my career path, my apartment, my living independently for nine years. I mean, this was a big experiment. It was a big experiment. It was a big mystery and I had to let go of a lot but a lot of it also was that sense of the career path and where I was headed, and then this other was over here, a redirection. Angelica Bullock 13:58 What was your first mission working with the Sisters? Sr. Claire E. Regan 14:02 As a candidate, I served at St. Vincent's Hospital as an administrative resident. And that's like a medical residency but in administration. It's called administrative resident. So I rotated through various departments in the hospital. I got to know the Sisters at the hospital. I got to know the administrative issues and the staffing and the problems of the largest, large Catholic institution. -5- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 14:31 A question that I've been asking other Sisters, is the ability to see God in their mission. A question I have for you is when you were working in there, did you see God in the work that you were doing? Was that something you were concerned with? I guess it's not really... Sr. Claire E. Regan 14:51 Oh, no, I've struggled. I struggled with the politics of healthcare, the reimbursement, the politics, the systemic issues of health care. The word Catholic I remember saying at one time, "Okay, call it Vincent's Hospital. Don't call it St. Vincent's Hospital," because what was happening in the board room or in the administrative venues was not the same dialogue or engagement, mostly male dominated power, conflicted, reimbursement-driven. It was not the same world as the Sisters were inhabiting on the outside, serving the patients and trying to serve patients, patients' families. The patient advocates ombudsman, work in the lab or in the different surfaces of the hospital giving direct service. There was a real conflict at that time in my heart, about the Catholic mission and what was Catholic about this. It didn't feel very different from any other hospital at that time. It didn't feel that way to me coming in. Angelica Bullock 16:07 Is that something that you still feel or has it evolved? Sr. Claire E. Regan 16:13 There aren't Catholic hospitals in New York much anymore. Most of them have been driven out, the reimbursement mechanisms. There are a few of course, St. Joseph's, St. Vincent's, Harrison, and upstate, they're run differently upstate. It's not the same level of unreimbursed free care. It's not the same volume. So I left, then I entered and became a novice. And I did a year of volunteer work at the the Veterans Hospital on Kingsbridge Road. And I loved it. One day a week I was at the information desk, greeting the visitors, told them where they could find whatever they were looking for or give them visitor's passes. Just pass the time of day with the different men coming in. It was mostly men, coming for outpatient services. It was a great environment, it's like a big boys’ club. It was very different, the Veterans Hospital, very different. And then I entered novitiate and took vows. My first two years I worked at St. Joseph's Hospital in South Yonkers as the administrator and I liked that very much. I liked the idea of a community hospital. There was a Sister of Charity running it, Sr. Mary Linehan. It had a wonderful sense of mission, identity in the neighborhood, really had a community hospital mission and sense of itself that I loved and the staff was tremendous. The doctors, the employees, everybody had been there for a long time. It was like a big family. It was nice, I liked that. But I wanted to get back to East Harlem and I did. I went back to work for a home health agency in East Harlem as a client advocate. Angelica Bullock 18:25 And that was for the Littles Sisters of... -6- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Claire E. Regan 18:27 Little Sisters of the Assumption. And I was in the food pantry. I didn't run the food pantry in terms of ordering the food; Sr.Chris [not a Sister of Charity] did that. But there were two of us. Managed the food pantry, all the advocacy, most of it welfare advocacy, some evictions, applications for public benefits, all kinds of public benefits. Applications, food stamps, Medicaid, Welfare and part of the city-wide coalition of emergency food providers. We were documenting the matters of hunger in East Harlem, and what was causing people to have to come with food emergencies. What were the health impacts of some of those food emergencies, and impacts on children and families in the neighborhood of East Harlem. It was an exciting place to be and we were doing it collaboratively with other churches in the neighborhood who were beginning also to open food pantries. Angelica Bullock 19:34 And did you see the people who were using your services often or was it more...? Sr. Claire E. Regan 19:40 Everyday. Oh, yeah. They were coming every day for food. Angelica Bullock 19:45 And how did that impact your life or your theology or anything? Sr. Claire E. Regan 19:54 There's a quote in Scripture, 'the faithful steward who disperses food from the master's supply.' something like that. But I remember praying on that many a time and being grateful that God had put me in such a significant position to be the faithful steward dispersing the goods from the master supply to those in need. It was a very difficult era in East Harlem. It was 1987 to 1992. The crack epidemic, AIDS was happening, AIDS epidemic, crack cocaine, there were drug wars. I mean, people coming in the agency were either newly arrived undocumented people who have no jobs or have new babies and were trying to get health care for the babies and the mothers. And then you had addicts coming in to try to get some food to sell on the corner. So, we had to kind of be wise stewards of the little we had, so that we would disperse it in the proper way we had to. We had to assess each person differently and individually, but there were people trying to get over who were addicted to substances and things. Then what we tried to do, because we didn't want to pre-judge, we would take the labels off the can and market peas, carrots, potato, you know, but take the labels off the cans so they couldn't be resold. Or that somebody wouldn't be selling it on the corner. Because the clients would come in and say, “Sister, you gave to that guy the other day and he just was selling it on the corner,” so we were hearing it from the people that we were trying to serve that we were being taken advantage of. So, there was this kind of tension in serving in the front lines of the poor community in a drug era and era of crack cocaine and AIDS. That was part of the pain of being someone giving away food as well. It was a terrible heartache, because you didn't want to deprive someone of food if they needed it. So, what we did was mark them, take the labels off the cans or put a hole in the spaghetti box or do something so they would have food but they wouldn't be able to sell it. -7- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 22:32 Did you get pushback either internally from other Sisters and the Community or externally, family members, friends, about the work you were doing specifically during that time? Did Sisters discuss those? Sr. Claire Regan 22:53 We did. I lived at Mount Carmel at that time then and we did. We were very aware it was a wonderful community. There were ten of us in diverse ministries. So, they were education, employment empowerment with Grace Institute, parish work in inner city communities, parishes, nursing, there were different careers and occupations and a few of the Sisters worked at the agency with me teaching GED and whatever. So, we were very committed to the neighborhood and to the people. So, there was no pushback. There was all kind of collaboration and support and mutual prayer and conversation at dinner and just good support. It was a wonderful community. Angelica Bullock 23:53 Can you talk a little bit about your time as the director of Elizabeth Seton Housing? Sr. Claire E. Regan 23:59 Well, that taught me not to join a committee. Let's see. So, there was this committee, there was this plan. Sr. Florence Speth had built Fox House [homeless shelter for women and children in Harlem, Manhattan, NY] and wanted to do another building. So, a few of us gathered around her because she wanted to do another rehab. And the building became available and was funded by the state, which we were to call Seton House, at 1991 Lexington Avenue on the corner of 121st street. And as I said it was funded $1.4 million by New York State Homeless Housing Program. And it was permanent housing for formerly homeless families. According to the state rules for funding, the families, and we fought also to have individuals, homeless individuals, we fought for that, had to be homeless for at least eight months. That was tough. I said, "Eight months, they're going to unlearn any good habits they might have had, eight months." I could not get that rule to bend at all. So, with a lot of remediation of the families when they were coming back into the community, to really feel they were welcomed, had places to go for help, had the supportive people around them, it was supportive housing, and we had a food cooperative. We had some health fairs at the place. We tried to have tenant meetings to try to build a sense of community. The food co-op met every month and it was called the Share Program. Attended meetings, so I did that for four-and-one-half years. At that point it was stable, fully tenanted, everything. It was fully tenanted within eight months, seven/eight months, fully tenanted. Documented each case, they had shown that they were in what shelter and they had been in at least eight months. So, you had to have all that documentation for the state. And you had to register the rents, so then it was pretty routine at that point. Help the families with their special needs, register the rents, inspect the apartments. activities of daily life for the mothers that needed some help raising their children. We had a little after school program, Sr. Trinita Flood did a little after school program with the children doing their homework when they'd come home. So, they could come to our place after school and be picked up by their parents at Seton House. -8- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 27:00 Let's talk about that. Sr. Claire Regan 27:02 The justice work. It started when I was on a poverty [committee] out of one of the assemblies [election of Congregation Officers], there were committees formed and I was on the poverty committee, and you had to be named to that committee. So, Sisters came to us and said, "I want you to serve on the poverty committee." Then they submitted our names and the council formed these particular committees out of assembly, and I was named to the poverty committee; I think there were seven of us. And in the matter of our coming together and the issues of the times, we said we need to be more effective in our work for justice. So, we created justice effectiveness as the position. Now there had always been a social concerns coordinator before that, so it wasn't per se that different, but then again, it was because it was taking our advocacy into a prime motion. In other words, not just a social concerns weekend once a year or a little update in the 'LeGras Bulletin,' [internal weekly publication featuring Community events and administration news] but really, with phone trees and relays, educating the Sisters on the matters and then not telling them how to vote. But, when it was time for a vote in the Congress and informing them much the way network does, informing them there was a significant vote happening in the Legislature or in the United States Congress, and would they call during that week, their representative. The message was sent on behalf of the poor, this is what we want to see happen. Vote against this or vote for it. But it's pretty much you did the education and then the suggested action. Angelica Bullock 28:44 And under what president was this happening was this ...? Sr. Claire E. Regan 28:50 That would have been Clinton [President Bill Clinton, 1993-2001]. A lot of it was under Clinton. Mr. Bush [President George W. Bush, 2001-2009] and the other first Mr. Bush [President George Bush, 1989-1993]. That was the era that I was in. So, welfare reform was a major piece and the national health care reform, Hillary Clinton [First Lady of the United States, 1993-2001] taking the lead on national health care reform. I went to an invitational meeting in Washington that network put together, what would be the platform for Catholic healthcare to put forward. People from all across the country, there were Sisters who were doctors and professors of health, medical schools and people working at mobile health clinics in Appalachia and I was doing my work in East Harlem, there was just so much going on. So national health care reform was really big, a really big issue at the time and Hillary Clinton was pulling all the pieces together. So, this was the Catholic effort to get a platform together. They had doctors against nuclear war, they had all kinds of people at this invitational to Washington, DC and sponsored by network. And we really fleshed out what we wanted to see in that health care and that was three or four days. We fleshed argued out, yes, no, maybe so, why, why not? And do you know when healthcare actually came out in the Obama time, network had a lot to do with getting that passed. And they were held up in that indoctrination series, they were held up for public scrutiny, because they played a significant role in Canadian national health care passed. -9- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 31:03 Can you explain a little bit what exactly network is? Sr. Claire E. Regan 31:07 Network started in the '70s. It was national health care lobby, Catholic social justice lobby. And it was run by women religious at the time. So, it was a national social justice, Catholic social justice lobby officially registered as lobbyists. Angelica Bullock 31:29 And can you talk about what specifically you and other Sisters were passionate about when it came to healthcare? Sr. Claire E. Regan 31:39 Access for the poor at a reasonable cost. Access was big issue, access. There were so many people with AIDS and drug addicted, and they were not getting any help anywhere, nobody. There was no care for them unless they could pay for it or have insurance. It was really, really, access for the poor and affordability. Angelica Bullock 32:11 I know I'm missing things. Give me one minute. Sr. Claire E. Regan 32:14 I'll give you 5 more minutes. Angelica Bullock 32:16 Do you have anything to add about corporate responsibility? Sr. Claire E. Regan 32:20 Yeah, that was the era of big, big matters of the environment, corporate responsibility. So, the first time I ever heard the word Maquiladora. I went to the first meeting that I went to, and they kept talking about Maquiladora, Maquiladora. And what is that an endangered animal or something? I didn't know what a Maquiladora was. M-A-Q-U-I-L-A-D-O-R-A. It was a factory across the border. And they were using poor Mexicans to make products for Americans and then ship them across the border. So. they were paying no wages and selling high profits in the United States, so it was this whole sense of justice for the Maquiladoras. Well, I thought it was an endangered species, some fur-bearing animal. You know, was funny, my very first meeting, I was totally blown out of the water. You go ICCE, Interface Center for Corporate Responsibility, and these are high-powered folks, up to the signs of the times, well read, talking justice, bang, bang, bang, and it's energizing, but it's also exhausting. But issues of the environment, plastics and chemicals in the water, pollution in the Hudson River was a big matter that we had. Healthcare, the cost of prescription drugs was another area I took a lot of interest in. And then credit access and credit matters, credit cards, lending practices with banks because we're a major banking center here. So, to save money with my budget, I didn't want to travel. - 10 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �I took on healthcare, which was New Jersey-based corporate headquarters, the banks, which were New York based on credit, and credit operations and finance, banking practices, and then the environment. Some of that I took on but I didn't take it on big because those companies were in other parts of the country. Some of the chemical and oil producing, polluting, and they were all around the world, Shell, [Royal Dutch Shell, oil refinery company] those kind of folks. So, I focused more on the pharmaceutical companies, the price of drugs and the banking credit practices and home lending and derivatives and things like that. Angelica Bullock 35:06 I know we're running out of time. I think we have three minutes but, could you discuss a little bit how you and the other Sisters, there was a committee, is that ...? Sr. Claire E. Regan 35:15 The Interfaith Center is a national group, it's a national organization of religious investors. And that's how I first got captured by New Orleans. We went down there and had our annual meeting in New Orleans in 2009. Katrina had hit in 2005. We had our annual conference in 2009. And it took my heart, you know, we were investing in there, we were doing post-disaster investing, looking at it more systemically, post-disaster recovery, and how you finance it and look for justice among the insurance companies and the banks as well as the federal grants mechanisms. So, I went down to New Orleans and went to the different areas and parts of the city and I just fell in love with the city and then the Federation came out with the ministry, the House of Charity, the next year. Actually, the letter came out the next month. So that was June, we had the annual meeting. In July the letter came out inviting Sisters, if they were interested to think about ministry in New Orleans. And I got there, we opened the house January of 2010, and I got there June of 2010. I was there for nine years. Rebuilding was the primary work, volunteer groups doing rebuilding. But I also got involved at peacemaking, working with Mothers who've lost children to violence, that whole sense of community engagement, religious organizing around matters of violence in the city, and then giving bereavement support in my parish to mothers who had lost children in the violence. So that was what I did on the outside. Angelica Bullock 37:21 It kind of seems like there's a transformation. Maybe, but not maybe in your career path where it seems like the work you were previously, most recently doing was more emotional, or more...maybe that's not true. I guess when you're talking about the bereavement counselor. Could you explain maybe... Sr. Claire E. Regan 37:49 I took that training during the days of the AIDS epidemic I took that training because I wanted to help mothers or people coming in who had a family member with AIDS. So that training I had for a long time, but I was applying it in a different circumstance with the violence in New Orleans. I was applying it in a different, in a more concentrated, focused way to a support group of women who were coming together, trying to help each other because they had lost a child to violence. Angelica Bullock 38:27 So, in helping others heal, how or was it a transformative experience for you? I guess helping people through grief. Was it … - 11 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Claire E. Regan 38:48 Rewarding? Well, you have to realize the whole city was screaming, the whole city of New Orleans. So, it was a city in grief; that was part of what called me there. So, I was even in pastoral visiting, there was something that you were touching or hearing or experiencing in the people you met. That was the shared story of Katrina. And it was a new chapter in the city trying to come back. And coming back in ways that people hoped were for the better, which they were in some ways, but they were gentrifying at the same time. Angelica Bullock 39:30 What do you see for the future? New Orleans, maybe in a positive light? Sr. Claire E. Regan 39:39 Oh, yeah, it's positive. And it's wonderful. It's a great place for families for faith, the church in New Orleans is very different than the church in New York. Very pastoral, very committed, going back in families, generations. It's just a whole different reality. New Orleans is a great place. It's got everything going for it. Good food, good music, good people. What more can you need? Angelica Bullock 40:16 Do you have any ending comments that you'd like to add your interview? Sr. Claire E. Regan 40:21 The way I see things going, I met with an associate [lay volunteer working with the Sisters of Charity of New York] last night and our conversation today, the justice agenda is going to take us to new places. So, for instance, the matter of immigration is going to be drawing us physically, emotionally to the madness at the border. You know, we're going to have to get more involved and take little risks. And I think that call to justice for Earth as well, is going to make us put out substance, not just our money, but our lifestyles, behaviors, commitments, relationships, all is going to be rehashed or renewed or made different. Because of what you're looking for is the consistency of your lifestyle with your mission, with the message. And if the message is this time of the Earth, and time of Earth and Earth suffering, as well as the poor suffering economically, ecologically and injustice, ecological injustice. They bear the outcome of people seeking profit at the expense of Earth and the poor suffering, so our mission continues. It will have new armament. Our education, new modes of communication, amplify the message in ways never before. Clinton's daughter Chelsea [daughter of President Bill Clinton and Hilary Clinton] said, "One person can make a movement." Look at Mother Seton, thirty-three sisters in New York when we started. So, you don't need a lot of bodies in this age of communication. You need the heart and the head that come together around the gospel and Christ and the Kingdom. So, it's a great time, right? No lack of challenges. - 12 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai � https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/a74e2d1985f5f5ad9668a16fed3badcf.mp3 0b7a774b5c840c81c077074d4aba61d1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of New York Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bullock, Angelica Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Regan, Claire E., SC Location The location of the interview Louise Le Gras Hall at Mount Saint Vincent, Bronx, New York Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio/mp3 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 42:27:00 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Regan, Sister Claire E., SC, Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Sister Claire E. Regan, SC Sisters of Charity (New York, N.Y.) Monasticism and religious life of women Health Services Administration St. Vincent's Hospital and Medical Center of New York. Department of Community Medicine Patient representatives AIDS (Disease)--Patients Hurricane Katrina, 2005 Food banks National Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States of America Interfaith Center on Corporate Responsibility Description An account of the resource Inspired by volunteer involvement in her parish, Sr. Claire E. Regan left her career in corporate management prior to entering the Sisters of Charity in 1982, at the age of 29. During her varied ministry experiences, she lobbied regarding food insecurity, homelessness and the need for improved healthcare for the poor. During the challenges of the AIDS epidemic and drug wars of the 1980s-1990s, she served as an administrator in several metropolitan New York hospitals. As Director of Elizabeth Seton Housing and later in post-Katrina New Orleans, Sr. Claire worked with a national organization of religious investors to address accountability for health insurance companies, banks and federal grant mechanisms. Sr. Claire was a Councilor in Leadership at Mount Saint Vincent from 2019-2023. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sisters of Charity of New York Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of New York Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-07-30 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mindy Gordon (Transcriber, Editor) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for reproduction or quotation must be obtained through written application to: Director of Archives, Sisters of Charity of New York, 6301 Riverdale Avenue, Bronx, New York, 10471. This permission is valid only insofar as the Archives of the Sisters of Charity of New York, as owner or custodian, has any rights in the matter and does not remove the responsibility of the author, editor, and publisher to guard against the infringement of any rights; including copyright, that may be held by others. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/wav application/pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Regan, Claire E., SC Oral History Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant New York City Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Sisters of Charity of New York AIDS Healthcare Sisters of Charity of New York https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/17385de3aa3a93ac1c2a56de413fc9ce.jpg 70621f746645a68e9661a41402d68bc0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Rocking chair, kneeler and wheelchair used by Foundress, Mère Marie-Anne Description An account of the resource Rocking chair, kneeler and wheelchair, were used by Foundress, Mère Marie-Anne; she was 73 years old when she, with 52 sisters, founded Religieuses de Notre-Dame-Du_Sacre-Coeur (Our Lady of the Sacred Heart). This is the first wheelchair used in the Congregation. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Unknown Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Religieuses de Notre-Dame-Du_Sacre-Coeur (Our Lady of the Sacred Heart) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource N/A Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Statue Plaster?? Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Physical Object Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available N/A Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1924 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Online access is provided for research purposes only. For rights, reproduction, and use requests or more information, please contact the Religieuses de Notre-Dame-du-Sacre-Coeur (Our Lady of the Sacred Heart) Subject The topic of the resource Wheelchairs Rocking chairs Kneelers Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context N/A Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant N/A Les Religieuses de Notre-Dame-du-Sacré-Coeur https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/00f7343e2c2e55910bf84a33cb5bc8b0.jpg 41769e07e6efa95b12516b3f81c71dc2 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/26e7b4f1f163e94d0d2153473b875ae2.mp3 3dbf2b325f62f198d34736308140fcc1 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/bcfc7129da4a20b04a1d5a516af7f9d1.pdf 3a5e53f39589cf74fe6877ba1740c9a3 PDF Text Text Sisters of Charity of New York Interview with Sr. Josephine Rog, SC October 3, 2019: 9:37AM • 35:58 Angelica Bullock 00:00 Today is October 8, 2019. The interviewer is Angelica Bullock. The interviewee is Sister Josephine Marie Rog. The interview is taking place at St. Patrick's Villa in Nanuet, New York. Okay, Sister Josephine, can you please state your full name? Sr. Josephine Rog 00:26 My full name is sister Josephine Maria Rog. I was born under the name of Marilyn Rog. Angelica Bullock 00:34 What is your current age? Sr. Josephine Rog 00:36 My current age is 79. I will be 80 in December. Angelica Bullock 00:42 Do you remember the date that you entered the Congregation? Sr. Josephine Rog 00:45 I entered on September 8, 1957. Angelica Bullock 00:51 And how old were you at the time? Sr. Josephine Rog 00:53 17. Angelica Bullock 00:55 Roughly, how many years have you been in the Congregation? Sr. Josephine Rog 00:59 62. Angelica Bullock 01:02 Okay, so first, we're going to start with a little bit of general information, specifically your family life. So can you tell me where were you born? Sr. Josephine Rog 01:12 I was born in Brooklyn, New York. -1- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 01:15 And is that where you grew up? Sr. Josephine Rog 01:17 Grew up basically, yes, for school, etc. But spent summers and many of the holidays in Connecticut with relatives, mainly cousins, aunts and uncles. Angelica Bullock 01:30 And could you tell us your parents name and their places of origin? Sr. Josephine Rog 01:34 My father's name is Joseph Rog. And my father was born in Connecticut and moved to New York. In his late teens, because of the father's work, he worked for the government and the United States Post Office at that time, and its side work in electronics. After the end of the war, he worked at Newark Airport, with his knowledge in electronics. Angelica Bullock 02:14 And your mother? Sr. Josephine Rog 02:16 My mother's name is Helen Rog, Helen Folcik, and she was really a housewife most of the years. She did work in food service for maybe 10 years in between that. Angelica Bullock 02:38 And do you have any siblings? Sr. Josephine Rog 02:39 I have one brother, 6 years younger. His name is Joseph Rog. Angelica Bullock 02:48 Do you have any family members in religious life? Sr. Josephine Rog 02:51 I had a grand aunt and a grand uncle. The grand aunt was a sister of the Holy Family of Nazareth, a Polish community. She spent her time between the United States and Poland. And my grand uncle was a priest. He was basically from Poland. But he also was pastor of a parish in Pennsylvania, Immaculate Conception or something similar to that. Angelica Bullock 03:26 And was your grand aunt and grand uncle, were they related to your mother or your father? Sr. Josephine Rog 03:32 The paternal side, my father. -2- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 03:35 Were you born into a Catholic family? Sr. Josephine Rog 03:38 Yes. Angelica Bullock 03:39 What parish did you belong to? Sr. Josephine Rog 03:41 At first when I was a baby and young child, I belonged to St. Agnes Parish, Congress Street, Brooklyn. But my life from first grade to graduation and entering the community, was St. Thomas Aquinas Church on Fourth Avenue, Brooklyn. Angelica Bullock 04:05 Okay, so now I'd like to talk a little bit about your education. What grammar school and high school did you attend? Sr. Josephine Rog 04:12 Okay, I attended the School of St. Thomas Aquinas, parish school and graduated from their eighth grade. Angelica Bullock 04:22 And what about high school? Sr. Josephine Rog 04:26 I was very fortunate to be able to get into Bishop McDonnell High School, was a blessing because I didn't have to pay tuition. Angelica Bullock 04:36 And did the Sisters of Charity teach in that school? Sr. Josephine Rog 04:39 Yes, they did. And that is where I met my first Sisters of Charity. If you would like a little story about that meeting, just the idea that I had a young cousin, who was very, very sick and dying. And she was in a Sister of Charity school in Brooklyn. I went every day so that I would relieve the mother so she could go home and cook a meal for the father. And I met Sisters of Charity in that hospital just on a passing. They struck me very deeply. They were very concerned, very loving with my cousin who was unresponsive in the bed. I believe that influence definitely had an impact on me at the time, because I was brought up in my grammar school by the Sisters of St. Joseph, Brentwood, New York. And Sisters of Charity struck me as kindly people. And then when I was in high school, I don't know why but my homeroom sister, a Sister of Charity, Sr. Agnes Carmita (Sheridan), worked very quickly. I arrived in school in September. By October she had me volunteering at St. Joseph's, Willoughby Avenue, the orphanage. Her fast working I think clinched everything. Because at St. Joseph's, I saw the sisters as -3- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �mothers taking care of these children, loving them, washing them, taking care, feeding them in every way. So that was my drawing card. I'm quite sure. Angelica Bullock 06:29 Okay, so now I'd like to talk a little bit more about why you joined in when you joined. So you said you joined when you were 17 years old? Sr. Josephine Rog 06:41 Yes. Angelica Bullock 06:43 And did you need permission since you are 17? How did that work? Sr. Josephine Rog 06:48 Yes, I needed permission. But I was thinking about this a long time before. In seventh grade, I told my mother not my father, that I would like to be a sister, and she objected to it. But she said, “Wait a while, you have a long time to go, you will maybe choose something else.” I always wanted the medical field and to be a doctor and my father was thrilled with that. And when he found out that I wanted to enter religious life, he was not happy. He did not scold me or punish me in any way. He wished me to go to Europe for a year and see how other people live, and that it might mature me a little bit and make me maybe not want to or maybe more so want to go into religious life. I did not wish to do that. And he accepted that not in a very happy way, but without punishing me in any way verbally or physically. And so it worked out that was able to go. Graduated high school in June and went in September to join the Sisters of Charity. Angelica Bullock 08:09 Can you tell us a little bit maybe why your parents were hesitant for you to join? Sr. Josephine Rog 08:18 Well, I think my father, as the only girl in the family and the first born, and I showed some acuity to learning, that I would be able to be an MD (doctor). I think he was kind of set on that. And he bought books and all kinds of things through my old high school. I did very, very well in biology because all that I knew before I even took the class. So I think that was his disappointment. Angelica Bullock 08:49 And can you tell me, what was the process of joining the Sisters of Charity in New York, you're 17... Sr. Josephine Rog 08:57 Right, and since my parents didn't right out any objection, they were going along with it, both of them. My mother was in some ways I know in her heart happy, but not happy for what she considered losing me. But then, of course, my Sister sponsored the Sister who sent me to work at Willoughby Avenue with the children. So quickly as I entered school, became my sponsor, and she brought me to the Mount (Mount Saint Vincent), and we were interviewed. But the mother general at the time mother, Mary Fuller, was not well enough for the interview. So I had to wait for her, to meet her. Now meeting -4- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �her was a strange situation because I was working at the sale, now I'm in high school a junior year not senior year in high school, and I was working at the big sale they had for the community at Grace Institute, New York. And while I was working there, one of the sisters knew that I had to petition to Mother. And my sponsor knew, she was also there. And so what they did was set up two chairs in a room that could not be opened until after the noon hour, because it was the money room, the liquor room, and that kind of thing. They put two chairs in between the boots of the money exchange and the wheel, the money wheel, and that's where I had my interview. And then shortly after that, I received my letter of acceptance so my senior year was all going to the community, basically. Angelica Bullock 10:57 Do you remember anything that happened during the interview? Do you remember any of the questions or do you remember how you felt? Were you nervous? Or... Sr. Josephine Rog 11:09 Maybe the first time that I went to the assistants, I was nervous because I didn't know what was coming, but by the time I met mother at the money wheel and the liquor booth, I did mention the money wheel and liquor booth, I was not nervous. And the question that I remember she asked me so vividly was, aren't you too young? And my answer, I could not believe it, I answered so quickly, “Oh, no mother.” With all that I had done as a camp counselor at camp, at Shoreham with the children and all that, I thought I knew everything. Little did I learn. Angelica Bullock 11:59 We talked a little bit about your family's thoughts about becoming a sister. But did your friends ever express how they felt about you becoming a sister at 17? Sr. Josephine Rog 12:10 My friends were basically other children from Catholic upbringing and most of them were delighted. They got me a little gift, a group of them pitched in and got me a beautiful, miraculous medal to wear. So no, my friends were very happy. My aunts and uncles, some of them were not happy. Some of them thought I was wasting my life, I had so much potential so they said, and they were not happy that I was doing that. Most of the world My grandparents were thrilled. Angelica Bullock 12:55 Do you want to talk a little bit about your life as a novice and your life as a postulant? Anything that comes to mind. Sr. Josephine Rog 13:04 Life in the novitiate, our life was very oriented. And very straightforward, do this this, at this time you did that at that time. I was kind of the one who followed the rule, I didn't really deviate that much, or anything that would bring anything down upon me. So I would say that it just went smoothly. I know it was very tense. during that whole time. I know that and my tension basically came that I had to do everything correct. Otherwise I would be sent out the door. And that was the last thing I wanted. I was desperate to hang-in no matter what happened. So what we had to do, I did and that's it. -5- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 13:51 Okay. And what specifically did you have to do? Do you remember? Just like tasks or... Sr. Josephine Rog 13:58 Yes, tasks, duties that we would be given. Silence at certain times. No running up and down the stairs that's one of the things I always got called down for is running on the stairs because I was always go, go, go, go go. And of course, prayer time we had to be on time, that kind of thing. You know, basically following the rules. When the bell rang, you went to someplace. When the bell rang again you went to someplace else. The duties were not hard. They were all physical duties that I was doing at home, scrubbing and mopping. We never had a scrub on the floor with our knees like they say some of the communities had to do you know, we use mops and pails and brooms and brushes. We didn't have any of the other problems. Our food the same thing. The food was good enough, it was it ample enough, and I didn't have any problem with that. Having to eat everything at home that was on the table no matter whether I liked it or not, even in the years I didn't like spinach I had to drink the juice. So as a result when I came, I was already ready to eat anything put on the table. I never had a problem. Even the tripe soup with little fishes in it! Angelica Bullock 15:29 Did you ever feel homesick at any point? Sr. Josephine Rog 15:33 I have to say I missed my family. I missed our customs, especially at the holiday time because we always were very strict with the Polish customs which were very beautiful and very meaningful. I missed that. But I cannot say that was a sickness that was a missing of something that we did that we are no longer doing however, in the novitiate, they had little surprises for us that made up for some of it. As far as real homesickness goes, I would feel that because I was used to going to all relatives houses all summer, I was away from my actual family, my mom and dad, my brother, and also the fact that I was camp counselor summer after summer after summer for weeks on end. As a result, I also was not with my family. So that homesickness I get over with very, very young. Angelica Bullock 16:37 You mentioned surprises that they gave you. When you were a novice? Sr. Josephine Rog 16:42 Yes. One of the the, I guess one of the things that most of us remember mostly, is the fact that it was it was a surprise. They took us down to a whole big room and it was life sized creche scene of Mary and Joseph in real clothes and the baby in real clothes, and the animals, not real, and the whole thing. And that was something that was like just a total surprise. We were told something was coming, something very nice was coming. But we never told what it was until we were ushered downstairs to the room they had set up. And it just was so beautiful. It stayed with us for me up until today that it was such a beautiful thing. And then they had a nice dinner. And we each got a little gift. I don't remember what it was. It wasn't something big, it wasn't money that's for sure; we couldn't have money. So whatever it was maybe a prayer card or I don't really remember, but we did get a little gift at the table. And then there were prayer services that were very beautiful. The Chapel was fixed up ultra-beautiful and that -6- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �was another beautiful surprise. We were given a free day around the holidays that we could walk anywhere we wanted, go anywhere we wanted, basically within the structure of the novitiate and, you know, be more free. Angelica Bullock 18:22 And what would you do on your free day? Do you remember? Sr. Josephine Rog 18:27 On that free day? Yes. You know, I guess most of us took a little bit extra time in the Chapel because we were not, we went to our prayers, our devotions, but we never had really much time extra. So I know I did that. I know I walked outside, which was a blessing. And when winter Christmas we're not that freezing, you can go outside and you know, could get some good fresh air, and then talk with my fellow novices, which we did not have much time to do. Angelica Bullock 19:08 And how large was your circle? Sr. Josephine Rog 19:13 Oh, we entered on September 8, '57 with 50. Angelica Bullock 19:19 50? Sr. Josephine Rog 19:20 50. 5, 0. Angelica Bullock 19:21 Wow. Sr. Josephine Rog 19:21 The next morning we woke up, one left, so we had 49 for most of the next months. Now after that, a few left one by one, I don't recall when or how many at that time. It is in the 1960s that we lost most. Angelica Bullock 19:47 And how did it feel to be joining with 50 or 49 or how many others, that's a lot of girls. Sr. Josephine Rog 19:58 That;s a lot, yes. Angelica Bullock 20:02 Did that feel more comforting to you or was that just the norm? Sr. Josephine Rog 20:06 -7- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �It was the normal, I knew there would be many and we did not have much time to talk with each other except at our recreation at night. And then you would be in a group and we'd be assigned group, you get your seat so that there was not much communication between them. On a free day, you know, you could talk to them and that was a joy, but we didn't have many of those. Angelica Bullock 20:32 Did you know anyone that joined the same time as you? Sr. Josephine Rog 20:37 I knew two, one was Jane Iannucelli, who was the former President, and the other was Helen, her married name Helen Fitzpatrick; she left. Helen left, after making vows and being on mission. So she was with us quite a few years. Both of us went to high school and graduated together and entered the same day. Angelica Bullock 21:05 Did they tell you beforehand that they were entering? Sr. Josephine Rog 21:09 Yes, yes. Angelica Bullock 21:12 And when did you finally have time to talk to the other sisters? Is that when you became a sister, an official sister? Sr. Josephine Rog 21:22 Yes, yes, after vows and coming on mission, we had more, you know, talking with each other. But even then we weren't allowed to visit the Convent. So it was mostly at meetings, that kind of thing. And then, of course, we became more friendly, like right now, three of us live here, who entered the same day. And so now, you know, really, and one of them I lived with at St. Agatha's for many, many years. So we are, we are friends, putting it that way. We really are. Angelica Bullock 21:59 So how does that feel to you, be with people that you have known, most of your.... Sr. Josephine Rog 22:09 Delightful! One, getting to know her much better, Evyleen Larkin and Sheila Finucane because I've lived with her so long at St. Agatha's, it's just nice not to have to give up that relationship and even at St. Agatha, we really were friends, and we shared the same TV and almost the same living quarters, because there we lived all over, all the different buildings. Angelica Bullock 22:35 So when I think about that, you've known those two sisters for 62 years, I think in the general public people would be surprised. Most people don't have friendships that long. So how do you feel about that? -8- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Josephine Rog 22:55 I think is a very wonderful thing. However, you have to remember at the beginning, we didn't see much of each other. But then when Sheila came to St. Agatha's, I was already there. So we got very close together. We think the same, you know, we have same goals and that kind of thing so we really hit it off right away. Sister Evyleen, I got to know her a lot better when she was in this house. But, while I was in the other house, but the two houses had a lot of connection, so I got to know her better then and now that I'm living with her, of course, I know her lot better. And it is wonderful to think of all the things we've been through together and now we're reliving to tell it for as long as we live. Angelica Bullock 23:55 When you entered at the age of 17 at that time was it uncommon for a 17 or 18-year-old to be considered an adult, or were you still viewed as a child? I say that as now. Sr. Josephine Rog 24:14 Definitely different from now. I was nine years old, I was babysitting for a newborn infant. Who would put a newborn infant in the hands of a nine year old today. Times were different. We grew up without so much extra things, bought things, we didn't have everything that the children have today. And so we grew up a little older, little harsher side. Happy, happy and wonderful. Nothing wrong with it. But I think we grew up a little bit faster. Angelica Bullock 24:50 So when you enter at 17 that was, you were... Sr. Josephine Rog 24:55 It was acceptable and most of the girls in our group were 17, 18, 19. There may be 2 who were a little bit older and that was the unusual. The older ones were the unusual ones. Angelica Bullock 25:18 How did you feel when you finally received your vows? Or, wait, I don't know the proper terminology. How did you feel? Sr. Josephine Rog 25:29 I really have to say that that was my goal. That's what I really wanted. Above and beyond everything else, it was vows when Vow Day came. For me, it was such a devotional kind of thing. I think I felt making vows in my very being as part of my own soul, because that was what I was wanting more than anything. Angelica Bullock 25:58 And for Vow Day, how does that work? Sr. Josephine Rog 26:02 -9- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Mother General, Mother Mary in my time, knelt, or maybe she sat on a chair, and we went up to a priedieu and knelt in front of her and said our vows to her into God. Her as the head of the community, that we were vowing our life to, and to God, who is our God. Angelica Bullock 26:26 And did every sister say the same vows? Sr. Josephine Rog 26:29 Yes, with their own name. Angelica Bullock 26:31 And during Vow Day was your family there? Sr. Josephine Rog 26:34 My mother, my father and my two grandmothers. In the novitiate, I had to get special permission to have my grandmothers come on our visit. They were so close to me, I could not have them not come on a visit. And my brother was at the age of 'forget it.' Angelica Bullock 26:54 Do you remember your family's emotions during that day. Sr. Josephine Rog 26:58 They all cried. I don't know about my father but they said my mother was sobbing. And my two grandmothers tears were coming down fully. Both of those grandmothers were born in Poland, as well as my grandfathers. That's why I was brought up so close to the Polish traditions. Angelica Bullock 27:20 So for our last couple of minutes, I'd like for us to talk about your ministries. Sr. Josephine Rog 27:26 I'm going to talk quickly. To my first mission, I was in Sacred Heart, West 51st Street, Hell's Kitchen, very tough neighborhood. Most wonderful children, street wise, language, whoo!, etc. But, heart of gold absolute heart of gold. I love those children. Taught first grade. Most of their families had a family member, mother or father or both, working down in Broadway. They were either dancers or they were theater managers or they had to do with setting-up the skits in the background and all of that for the place. They did a lot of odd jobs. But most of them were from there and they were just very wonderful children. Some were very bright and I sent them to the hospital down the road that had courses for gifted children. So that was that. Okay, from there, I went to St. Agatha Home. I was a group mother for 16 boys, at one point 18 boys, and they were mostly teenagers from 12, 13 up to 16. And that was a wonderful experience. I learned a lot from them. I learned football, I never knew about football, I learned football and just they were rough children, rough. Because they'd been with city children. And the first experience I had going into the cottage, was a boy down the stairs to the playroom and kept telling me I hate nuns. I hate nuns. So I yelled out. "Oh," I said, "David, you are so funny. Come on up and join us." I never had trouble with him again in all the years at the cottage. That was my first. - 10 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 27:26 Can you talk a little bit about the voice the boys that you were mothering like how they got to see St. Agatha Home. Sr. Josephine Rog 29:35 They were court committed. They're usually a member of their family was in jail or on drugs. Possibly, both of them had a problem. Most of them had a visitor on one Sunday a month from the city. But it was a very cold kind of visit. They sat at the table. Basically didn't talk to each other just was there, had the lunch we provided and then off went the parent. It was not a warm situation. A few had a warm situation, but very, very few. They were very responsive. They were grateful for what you did. They were mischievous. They were sexually active which was very hard. And I had a lot of night trouble. I had to get up during the night and check because they would be with each other. The were wonderful in sports. They liked anything I did for them extra. My aunt worked at Schwartz, if you ever remember a Schwartz, and she would get all the cakes that they couldn't use because they were smashed or banged or some icing taken off and she would save that for me. And the boys absolutely loved them. Angelica Bullock 30:54 How did it feel to be their mother? Right? Sr. Josephine Rog 30:58 I got the feeling that from the very, very beginning, knowing that I was the person who meant anything to them in their lifetime, whether they liked me or not, I was still there. I still provided for them. I gave them everything. I got them their food, I got people to cook it or me to cook it. It came from the kitchen or heated up, whatever but I learned that. And after we left, I got a call from one of the boys and all he could say is, "You're the only mother I knew in my life." And that got to me, really got to me. And others would say the same thing not in those words. Angelica Bullock 31:44 And how long did you work at St. Agatha Home? Sr. Josephine Rog 31:48 I worked there in different positions from 1963 to 1982. And I worked 11 years in the cottage with the boys. Or sometimes I was changed to girls, but whatever. Then I worked in the school on the grounds, public school. And then I worked, a public school closed by the way so I had to change jobs. I worked in purchasing at the home. Angelica Bullock 32:22 And did you like your time working there through all the different jobs you had? Sr. Josephine Rog 32:26 Very much, it was a wonderful place. None of us had an easy time because taking care of the children was not easy. We had long walks every day, going from the cottage down to the main building for our prayers and for our meals. We did not eat with the children. And we had to keep our own community so - 11 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �we came down to the main building. It's a long walk, sometimes very difficult in snow and cold. But nevertheless, we were young and it was wonderful for our health to do that, so it was a plus. The sisters were very good. We were very happy with each other. We had a lot of nice times when we get to meals and that kind of thing. We enjoyed each other's company. Angelica Bullock 32:59 Do you want to talk any more about ministries? Or? Sr. Josephine Rog 33:19 Well, I could say that from St. Agatha Home. I went to the rectory at New Rochelle, St. Gabriel's. Then from there, I could only stay there for a year I asked for a year to go there. I was granted it. I went to Convent of Mary the Queen in Yonkers, with our senior Sisters. And I was there until my mother needed care. So I spent about 30 years there. Angelica Bullock 33:50 And do you remember how you felt when Mary the Queen closed? Sr. Josephine Rog 33:56 Terrible. I didn't know what we were going to do with our Sisters. Even now, I just don't know. They're going to different places and it's very difficult. It's part of the times, it has to be. I know that and I understand that I'm not knocking it or blaming anybody for it. But what I do have to say I had hoped that in our later years, we could all be together and live our community together. And of course that's not working out. However, Kittay (nursing home, Bronx, N.Y.) and ALP (Assisted Living Program, Bronx, N.Y.) worked out beautifully. So I'm grateful for that. And those who are in Cabrini or St. Patrick's, there a little bit beyond that. So you know, maybe it did work out for the best but I'm still sad. And people on the outside when they find out I'm 62 years completed. They say to me, "Are you happy you went to the Sisters of Charity? Wouldn't you have been happy to be a doctor that you wanted to be? Wouldn't you be happier if you got married and had children?" I don't know. Those things are not uppermost in my mind. I'm happy I entered the Sisters of Charity. Am I happy that I entered at 17? Yes, I am. I don't know what would have happened during those years. I don't know what kind of young men I would meet and what we would do when all; I don't know. I may have been naive and gotten into trouble. I don't know, I really don't. I'm very happy. I entered the year I entered and the life we live. There are ups and downs. There are ups and downs in every life. If I had an abusive husband, I would be a wreck. I've never had abuse in community. I know. So yes, I am happy. And certainly my prayer life has brought me closer to our God which we're all trying to do in one way or another. Angelica Bullock 35:53 I think that's a great way to end. Okay, thank you, Sister. - 12 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of New York Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Josephine Rog, SC Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bullock, Angelica Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 35:58:00 Location The location of the interview St. Patrick Villa, Nanuet, New York Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Rog, Josephine, SC, Interview Subject The topic of the resource Rog, Josephine, SC Interview, Oral History Description An account of the resource Sr. Josephine Rog discusses her life as a Sister of Charity of New York. The only girl and first child in her family, her parents hoped she would become a doctor however, accepted her decision to enter the order. Sr. Josephine details the daily experience as a novice at Mount Saint Vincent, and the challenges of teaching in Hell's Kitchen, and caring for orphan boys at St. Agatha Home, Nanuet. She emphasizes the influence of the Sisters in her life from her time as a volunteer at St. Joseph's Orphan Asylum, and the enrichment of her life through the comraderie she enjoys with other members of the Community. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rog, Josephine, SC Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of New York Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 10/3/2019 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mindy Gordon (Editor) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for reproduction or quotation must be obtained through written application to: Director of Archives, Sisters of Charity of New York, 6301 Riverdale Avenue, Bronx, New York, 10471. This permission is valid only insofar as the Archives of the Sisters of Charity of New York, as owner or custodian, has any rights in the matter and does not remove the responsibility of the author, editor, and publisher to guard against the infringement of any rights; including copyright, that may be held by others. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Rog, Sister Josephine, SC, Oral History Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant New York City Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Sisters of Charity of New York Education Sisters of Charity of New York https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/4449f57f69072501dfcb2aa0d2006199.jpg be996a2fb6ee46ad1c9ac6d797387ce1 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/c286a077aab85b235be2196a5bf706af.pdf 52d841a8fb48498c2fa25b9e072aa113 PDF Text Text Rosemarie Lakra, SCN    Born on September 15, 1937, in Sirsi village and Katkahi parish, in Ranchi  diocese  and  district,  I,  Celestina  Lakra,  am  the  fourth  child  of  my  father,  Patras  Lakra  and  mother,  Louisa  Xalxo.  We  were seven girls and one boy.  In  the  order  of  birth  they  are  Albertina,  (later  Sister  Agatha),  Alexius,  Anasthasia,  Celestina,  Mary  Constantina,  Anna  Rosalia,  Albina  Julita  and  Henerietta.  The  second  youngest  girl,  Albina  Julita,  died  when  she  was  three  years  old.  My  good  Catholic  parents  saw  to  it  that  we  had  daily  prayers  and  attended  Mass  whenever  possible.  My father was trained as a  Cathechist and a teacher.  We were a middle class joint family.  My brother,  Alexius,  married  young and had three children.  There was a severe famine  in  the  early  1950s.  One  after  the  other,  many calamities such as death of  cattle  and  horses,  failing  family  business,  and  a  theft  took  place  in  our  family.  Suddenly,  like  Job  in  the  Bible,  we  lost  everything  and  we  became  very poor.  Alexius, my beloved brother died on July 31, 1957 and his three  children  died  within a short span of one and a half years.  My sister-in-law  married  again  and  moved  out  of  my  home.  She,  too,  died  in  1961.  My  cousin brother also died during this time.      My  eldest  sister,  Albertina,  a  trained  teacher,  after  working  for  four  years,  joined  the  Ursuline  Sisters.  My  sisters,  Anasthasia,  Mary  Constantina,  Anna Rosalia and Henerietta are married.     Due  to  financial  difficulties,  my  parents  found  it  difficult  to  provide  an  education  for  me.  I  went  to  the  Mahuadanr  parish  primary  school  which  had  classes  only  up  to  Class  V.  With  financial  help  from  the  Mahuadanr  parish  priest,  I  studied  up  to  Class  VII  at  St.  Teresa’s  School  run  by  the  Holy Cross Sisters.  There was no high school close by, nor road or buses to  commute.  The  only  high  school  was  the  Ursuline  Convent  Girls’  High  School  in  Gumla,  five  days  walk  away.  I  had  a  great  desire  to  study  and  against my parents' wishes I went to that school for my studies.  Each year,  I  had  to  face  obstacles  but  I  managed to finish my matriculation (Class XI)  in the year 1957.     The Holy Cross Sisters invited me to join them and the Ursulines invited me  to study in their college.  Finally with the help of my uncle, a Jesuit priest, I  was  able  to  continue  my  studies  at Xavier’s College staying at the Ursuline  convent hostel.  Because of ill health, I was not able to complete the college.  I also had a desire to become a nurse and so I went to Holy Family Hospital  in Mandar, Ranchi, for General Nursing.  I did the Midwifery from Kurji Holy  1 �Family  Hospital,  Patna  and  I  returned  to  Mandar  Holy  Family  Hospital.  I  worked  full-time  there  for  one  and  a  half  years  before  joining  the  SCN  Congregation.     No  Sisters  were  in our parish until I was in Class IV.  When the Daughters  of St. Anne came to our parish in Rajawal, the villagers waited for them with  garlands.  I also joined them in welcoming and garlanding the Sisters.  As I  saw them, I felt like some current passing through my body, possibly a sign  for  my  desire  to  become  a  religious.  I  grew  up  keeping  that longing in my  mind.      As good Christians, my parents had deep faith and they were very prayerful.  They  influenced  me  very much.  While I was working as a nurse, I met one  of  my  classmates  who  was  joining  the  Ursuline  Sisters  in  Ranchi.  From  then  on,  my  inner  voice  began  to  push  me  and  I  heard  a  voice  telling  me,  "Go  right  now,  and  do  not  delay".  Soon after that, I sought the advice of a  priest who suggested to me that I join a group of Sisters in the Ranchi area.  I  declined  to  follow  this  advice because I wanted to go to a far place.  Then  he  began  to  name  some  of  the  Congregations  to  which  I  kept  saying  “no”,  until I heard him say SCN Congregation.  To that I said “yes”, though I had  no idea about this particular Congregation.  I, being a nurse and the Sisters  having  a  hospital,  I  thought  that  I  would  fit  in  with  them  well.  As  I  look  back, it was God’s Spirit who helped me to choose the SCN Congregation.      When  some  priests  and  Sisters  heard  that  I  was  going  to  join  the  SCN  Congregation in Mokama, they discouraged me with the information that all  the  Sisters  there  were  from  South  India.  They  frightened  me  saying  that,  "You  will be the only one from Ranchi" and in reply I said, "Well, if I have a  real vocation for God's service and mission, I will face it and go ahead.  God  will give me the grace."    I  travelled  alone  and  reached  Mokama  on  August  2, 1965.  As I met Sister  Lawrencetta  I  knew  Mokama  was  the  right  place  for  me.  I  worked  until  October  at  Nazareth  Hospital.  On  December  27,  1965,  I  entered  the  postulancy  with  four  other  candidates  who  had  also  finished  their  nurses'  training.  One of the candidates, Thankamma Xavier, a trained teacher from  Kerala, who had arrived just before me also entered postulancy with us.      One  of  my  happiest  moments  was  receiving  the  holy  religious  habit  and  experiencing  the  hair  cutting  ceremony  on  the  previous  night  of  July  19,  1966,  our  vestition  day.  I  felt  that I sacrificed my hair, offered my life and  my  all  for  the  service  of  God's  people.  Many  Sisters  asked  me  to keep my  2 �maiden name, Celestina.  I told them that if I am changing my way of life, I  would  also  like  to  change  my  name.  I  was  given  the  name,  Sister  Rosemarie.  Teresa  Rose  Nabholz,  SCN  was  our  postulant  and  novice  director.  During the last three months of our novitiate, Patricia Mary Kelley,  SCN  took care of us since Sister Teresa Rose was appointed as the regional  superior.     The six of us took our First Vows on July 19, 1968.  I experienced great joy  as  I  was  giving  myself  totally  to  God.  We  had  a  few months of a juniorate  program  in  Ranchi.  I  took  some  art  classes  in  drawing,  painting  and  making  baskets  from  bamboo  and  cane  at  Yogada  Mutt,  a  Hindu  ashram,  opposite to our convent.      As  a  Sister,  I  was  happy  to  be  assigned  to  Nazareth Hospital from October  1968  where  I  worked  in  the  public  health  department.  I  prepared  visual  aids  like  health  charts  for  teaching  the  public.  I  also  went  with  other  student  nurses  to  visit  the  villages.  We  walked  to  the  nearby  villages  and  used a vehicle to reach the far off villages.  The most common diseases that  we  treated  were  diarrhoea,  dysentery,  fever,  cold,  cough,  typhoid,  tuberculosis,  leprosy,  scabies,  anaemia,  etc.  Miss  Mary  Paul,  an  experienced nurse who studied in Mokama was our supervisor and was very  good to all of us.  Whenever we got an emergency call of a cholera out-break,  we immediately rushed to the area with vaccine and other medicines.  Every  month  we visited a mission station of Patna Diocese to attend to the health  needs  of  the  people  extending  up  to  the  border  of  Nepal  in  North  Bihar.  Most of these mission stations did not have a dispensary or religious Sisters  to attend to the sick at that time.      As  a  young  Sister,  in  June  1969,  I  was  chosen  to  be  with  Sisters  Ann  Roberta Powers and Anne Philip Gnavally to begin a new mission in Chatra.  We  had  a  large  rocky compound and in the cool of the evening, we enjoyed  sitting on rocks to pray together. We named our house, Nazareth Niketan.      Initially  we  had  only  three  rooms  with  an  asbestos  roof.  We  used  one  of  those rooms as our living quarters.  The Blessed Sacrament was kept in the  tabernacle in one corner with a kerosene lamp and it was partitioned with a  curtain.  Our  personal  belongings  as  well  as  the  household  articles  were  kept  in  the  same  room.  For  dining,  we  used  a  folding  table.  The  bathing  room  and  toilet  were  outside.  There  was  a  small  outside  room  which  we  used as our kitchen, cooking on firewood.     3 �We  visited  the  people  in  the  villages  to  encourage  them  to  send all of their  children to school but they were interested in educating only their sons.  We  persuaded  them  to  educate their daughters also by saying unless you send  your  girls  to  school  we  will  not  admit  your  boys.  On  July  8,  we  formally  opened  the  new  school  and  named  it  Nazareth  Vidya  Niketan.  On  the  opening day we had thirty-six children for pre-primary and Class I.  We used  the  two  rooms  and  the  veranda  for  conducting  the  classes.  All three of us  taught in the school.      One  day,  Sister  Ann  Roberta  began  to  bleed  heavily  from  her  nose  and we  were  frightened  and  did  not  know  how  to  prevent  it.  I  gave  her  first  aid,  then  gave  an  injection  and  finally  the  bleeding  was  controlled.  Every  now  and then she had the same problem.  We had no hospitals close by and we  did not know any doctor in the locality.  There were no travel facilities except  an occasional bus service.  We were so happy to see the Gaya jeep stopping  by  one  day.  Sister  Ann  Roberta  travelled  with  them  for  a  check-up  and  treatment in Mokama.     Once  when  Sister  Ann  Roberta had gone to Gaya for some school work, we  heard  a  tiger  roaring  close  to our house during the night.  Anne Philip was  not aware of it, though our beds were close by.  I woke her up and asked her  if  she  had  heard  the  sound.  She  said  that  some  cow  must  be making the  noise.  I  told  her  it  was  a tiger roaring and she responded, "Oh, tiger” and,  unperturbed, she went back to sleep.    From  Chatra,  ​I  went  to  Lady  Reading  Hospital  in  Delhi  ​for  a  year  of  community health nursing in 1970.  ​When ​I returned to Chatra to continue  the  same  ministry,  I  was  asked  to  do  the pastoral ministry for which there  was a great need.  To prepare for the same I went to Tongo in Ranchi diocese  for  catechetical  training.  SCNs  Mary  Juliana  Tuti  and  Ann  Moylan  were  with me for the same training.  It was not easy for me to give up the nursing  profession to take up the pastoral ministry as a full-time job.  I experienced  an inner struggle of being pulled between the two ministries.  Besides, many  of our Sisters were not convinced why a qualified nurse had to be in pastoral  ministry.  The hospital community would have liked me to serve at Nazareth  Hospital.  Sisters  Ann  Roberta  and  Teresa  Rose  supported  me  in  my  decision.  Finally,  I  became  the  first  and  only  full-time  pastoral  Sister  in  1971.      We  were  very  happy  and  felt  privileged  to have our Mother General, Lucille  Russell  visit  Chatra mission in October 1971.  Since we had only one room  4 �for  everything  and  as  we  were  playing  cards  together,  Mother  Lucille  said  that  she  had never experienced eating, playing, sleeping, recreating, etc. all  in front of the Blessed Sacrament.  We all had a good laugh.  Along with my  companions, I made my Final Vows on July 2, 1972 in Mokama.      We  had  CRS  (Catholic  Relief  Services)  'food  for  work'  supplies  for  developmental  work.  We also distributed some of the warm clothes we had  gathered  to  the  people.  We  visited  the  homes  of  the  students  as  well  as  other houses in the villages, taking care of the sick and suffering.  We meant  a  great  deal  to  the  people  and  they  approached  us  whenever  they  were  in  any need, during day or night. I enjoyed my five years of ministry in Chatra.      People used to gather in someone’s house when any priest from Hazaribagh  came  to  offer  Mass  and  administer  Sacraments.  Chatra  parish  with  a  resident  priest  was  not  established  until  1974.  From  the  time  we  were  in  Chatra  we  took  care  of  all  the  spiritual  and  other  needs  of  the  people  including the burial services for the dead.  All three of us had permission to  distribute Holy Communion to the people.  Each Sunday, we had ​gaon girja  (village  church)  para-liturgical  services  with  the  people.  Once  in  a  while a  priest  from  Hazaribagh  would  come  to  offer  Mass  and  consecrate  enough  hosts for the following weeks.     My  third  assignment  was  to  pioneer  a  new  mission  house  in  Sale,  Mahuadanr  in  1974  along  with  SCNs  Jean  Kulangara,  Marianne  Puthoor.  Teresa  Rose  Nabholz,  SCN,  regional  superior,  accompanied  us  on  our  long  journey.  For  the  blessing  and  inauguration  of  the  new  mission,  a  huge  crowd  of  more  than  3,000  people  gathered  on  October  13,  1974.  Most  Reverend  George  Saupin,  SJ,  the  bishop  of  Daltonganj,  officiated  at  the  Eucharistic  celebration.  As  Sister  Teresa  Rose  and  our  guests  left  we  felt  lonely  and  held  on  to  each  other  and  wept.  Mahuadanr,  which  had  no  paved roads in those days, was our farthest village mission.      In  the  beginning,  we  taught  in  the  Jesuit  village  school  along  with  doing  medical  and  pastoral  work.  We  were  not  very  familiar with the area so we  did  not  know  how  to  get  to  places.  We  helped with the retreat for Class X  girls  in  the ​gaon girja near our convent.  One night as we were taking back  the  Blessed  Sacrament  to  the  parish  through  the  fields  we  lost  our  way.  After  walking  for  a  long  distance,  we  noticed  a  light  and  thought  we  had  arrived at the parish.  We chuckled when we found out that it was our own  house  where  the  village  girls  were  practicing  a  dance  for  the  harvest  feast  Mass.  After a year of our being there, a resident priest was appointed to the  parish.    5 �   In April 1975, Father Phil Crotty, SJ, the parish priest of Mahuadanr asked  me  if  I  could  do  some  medical  relief  work  in  Sabagh village on top of a hill  where many people were affected by a rare disease.  Many lives were lost in  that area and some of the villages had not a single person living.  Many had  to  go  on  foot  for  treatment  to  the  only  medical  facility  in  the  area,  the  Carmel  Hospital  in  Mahuadanr,  run  by  the  Carmelite  Sisters  from  Kerala.  The  doctors  could  not  discover  what  was  causing  the  many  deaths.  The  Carmel  Sisters  had  taken  a  few  patients  to  ‘All  India  Medical  Science  Hospital' in Delhi for investigation and treatment.  Since they had no Sisters  to accompany me to the villages, I went with a girl as my companion to stay  in  that  village.  Father  Crotty  came  with  us  with  food  supplies  and  medicines provided by CRS.  Father also carried the Blessed Sacrament with  him.  The people gave us an empty house in which to stay.  I made a place  for the Blessed Sacrament in one corner of the room.  Every month, a team  of  medical  personnel  from  the  hospital  came  to  the  villages  to  treat  the  people.  For  four  months  I  stayed  in  that  village  to  look  after  the  patients  and  feed  the  people.  They  were  instructed  not  to  eat  any  food  other  than  what we provided because no one knew the cause of the many deaths.  The  epidemic  drew  the  attention  of  the  central  government  in  Delhi  and  supported the untiring efforts of the doctors and Sisters at Carmel Hospital.  Research points to the toxic seed of the Gondli grain (a type of millet) being  the cause of the epidemic. The poor of the region use the grain for food.      In  1975,  the  first  parish priest, Father Barry, SJ, two catechists and I took  interest  in  the  Birjias,  a  primitive  tribe  who  were  very  poor  and  illiterate.  After  five  years  of  our  contact  and religious instructions, we had a Mass in  the  village  with  Baptism,  marriage  blessing  and  Confirmation.  Now  they  have  a  parish  of  their  own  in  their  area.  Children are being educated and  they  have  improved  economically.  One  of  them  is  with  us,  Sushila  Telra,  SCN.    I  stayed  in  the  villages  with  the  catechists  for  a  couple  of  days  at  a  time.  Every  evening,  we  gathered  different  groups  of  people,  youth,  women  and  men,  separately.  We  prayed  with  them  and  had  discussions  about  their  problems  and  what  they  could  do  together  to  solve  them.  We  organised  various  groups  such  as  Sodality  for  youth and Catholic ​Sabha (council) for  people  in  general  and  ​Mahila (​ women) Sangh  (group)  for  women  to  deepen  their  faith.  We  also  conducted  retreats  for  them  from  time  to  time.  I was  appointed  coordinator  of  the  Catholic  Women's  Group  in  the  deanery  and  the Daltonganj Diocese.  I was one of the three religious Sisters appointed as  consult members of the diocese.    6 �  In  1980  I  was  sent  to  Bakhtiarpur  Community  Health  Centre  to  conduct  programs such as 'mother and child health', school health, village out-reach,  home visits and vaccination at the centre, schools and in the villages.  I also  helped  to conduct deliveries and to take night on-calls at the centre for two  years.     In  1982,  I  went  to  Sudeep, Bangalore for a three-month renewal.  After the  renewal,  Sister  Marietta  Saldanha,  SCN,  the  coordinator  of  Sudeep,  asked  me to help out in the day-to-day running of the place and I stayed there for  seven months.      The  royal  family  members  and  other  well  to  do  people  of  Nepal  sent  their  children  to  study  in  Darjeeling,  India,  where  there  were  good  Catholic  schools.  Because  of  the  quality  education  they  received  in  Darjeeling,  in  1950,  King  Mahendra  of  Nepal  invited  the  Jesuits  of  Patna  to  open  an  English  medium  boarding  school  in  Kathmandu.  The  Jesuits  in  turn,  invited  the  IBMV  (Institute  of  the  Blessed  Virgin  Mary) Sisters, now known  as  CJ,  (Congregation  of  Jesus)  to  begin  an  all  girls’  school  in  a  property  adjacent  to  theirs.  That  was  the  beginning  of  Catholic  presence  in  Nepal.  The  two  boarding  schools  were  known  as  St.  Xavier’s  and  St.  Mary’s  respectively.  There  was  no  other  Catholic  presence  in  the  whole  of  Nepal  before the SCNs were invited to Nepal by the Jesuits in 1979.    When  I  was  called  to  discern  for  the  mission  in  Nepal,  Sister  Margaret  Rodericks,  provincial,  told  me  that  there  were  some  Tribal  Catholics  of  Indian  origin  in  East  Nepal  who  were,  “like  sheep  without  a  shepherd.”  Since  the  SCNs  had  not  yet  gone  to  East  Nepal,  I  joined  the  Kathmandu  community in January 1983 to learn Nepali and to get to know the people’s  culture.  SCNs  were  in  discernment  to  move  to  East  Nepal  from  Godavari  and Kathmandu at the request of Father Cap Miller, SJ, the episcopal vicar  to  Nepal.  In  February  1983, SCNs Anne Marie Thayilchirayil, Ann Murphy  from the US, Jean Kulangara and Tara Ekka moved to East Nepal.  For four  months,  staying  with  Joel  Urumpil,  SCN,  in  Kathmandu  I  attended  a  training  program  to  work  with  the  mentally  handicapped  children.  I  also  had an attack of pneumonia so I stayed in Kathmandu for a few more weeks  to recover.      Wanting to wind up her pastoral ministry in Kathmandu, Sister Joel stayed  a  few  more  months  before  we  moved  to  Dharan.  Joel  wanted  to  set  up  a  dispensary  and  do  some  developmental  work  among  the people in Dharan.  Since  that  was  not  feasible,  Joel  and  I  went  to  a  village  in  Damak  where  7 �there were many Indian Tribal Catholics working in the tea gardens.  I began  my  pastoral  ministry  with  them  and  discovered  there  were  many  more  tea  gardens  in  East  Nepal  with  a  Catholic  population.  They  consisted  of  Uraons,  Santhals,  Mundas  and  Kharias  who had migrated to Nepal several  decades  ago.  People  used  to  live  in  small  mud  huts  around  the  gardens.  They  came  together  every  Sunday to pray and had the ​gaon girja without a  priest.  Occasionally  a  priest  came  from  Purnia  parish  from  neighbouring  India to offer Mass.  Once in a while, Reverend Cap Miller from Kathmandu  also  came  for  Mass.  Whenever  we  had  the  Mass,  plenty  of  hosts  were  consecrated  for  distribution  during  the  para-liturgical  services.  I  prepared  the  people  for  different  sacraments.  Whenever  we  had  Mass,  the  priest  administered the sacraments in each of these places.  I began to keep family  records  of  all  the  people  who  received  the  Sacraments.  When  I  stayed  overnight  in  the  villages,  they  were  very  hospitable  and  gave  me  their  best  corner in the room.  I slept on a burlap mat on the floor which was cleaned  with fresh cow-dung, not yet dry.      On Ash Wednesdays, I prepared ashes from burning the coconut leaves and  blessed it to take to the people in the villages and the tea gardens to remind  them that it's the special season of Lent for prayer, sacrifice, confession and  reconciliation, etc.      One Holy Thursday, the priest could not come for the services.  We ourselves  conducted the services of the day with washing of the feet of six men and six  women,  a  custom  that  did  not  exist  in  the  Catholic  Church  at  that  time.  Whenever  a  priest  was  available  during  the  Holy  Week,  we  had  Masses  in  four different tea gardens on Holy Saturday.      SCNs  Anne  Marie  and Ann Murphy were in Ilam, in the hills and Jean and  Sarita  Manavalan were based in Dharan.  When Father Miller came to offer  Mass  in  Damak,  we  got  the  opportunity  to  visit  our  Sisters  in  Dharan.  In  Dharan we also went to the British camp for Mass with Father Miller.      After Joel and I began taking serious patients to the Dharan camp hospital,  I  got  a  free  pass  to  enter  the  camp  any  day.  The  matron  of  the  hospital,  Miss  Stella  Mary,  became  friendly  with  us  and  she  took  good  care  of  our  patients.  She  also  liked  to  stay  with  us  in  Damak  during  her  breaks.  Whenever  I  was  home  in  Damak,  I  helped  Joel  with  home  deliveries  and  literacy work.     One  of  my  deep  faith  experiences  is  that  whenever  people were in any dire  need, God took me to be with them.  This was especially true when someone  8 �became seriously ill, near death or in any other trouble.  I also helped them  financially  from  the  travel  money  I  got  from  Father  Miller.  Many  of  them  returned that money with gratitude.  I worked for six years in Damak.  I am  proud  to  hear that now in each of those six places, there is a parish with a  resident  priest  and  several  groups  of  religious  Sisters  are  working  among  them.    In  May 1986, I was assigned back to Nazareth Hospital in Mokama to work  with  Sister Lucia Thuluvanickel and Reverend Dan Rice, SJ in the spiritual  care  department.  For  the  first  time,  SCNs  had  established  a pastoral care  department in the hospital.  In January 1987, Sister Mary Lynn Fields, SCN,  helped  us  to  make  a  mission  statement  and  goals  for  the  spiritual  care  department.  Our mission was to care for the total well-being of the patients  and  their  family  members,  staff,  students,  employees,  criminals,  drug-addicts,  alcoholics,  and  whoever  was  in  need.  This  experience  really  was very enriching for my own personal growth.    When there was a crisis in our Barauni mission I was one of the Sisters who  was  asked  to  go for the flood relief work to Khagaria and Mansi for a week.  We  had  lost  Sandhya  Baxla,  SCN,  during  the  flood  relief  work  in  Mansi  in  August 1986.     On  the  night  of  the  first  death  anniversary  of  Sandhya,  there was a rather  major  earthquake  in  which  many  houses  and  properties  were  destroyed in  North  Bihar.  The  administrator,  Sister  Bridget Kappalumakal, SCN, asked  me  to  join  the  Catholic  Health  Association  of India group from Patna along  with our health personnel to do relief work in Darbhanga for a week.      I  coordinated  the  regular  8.30 am Masses and Holy Hour on Fridays in the  hospital.  I  counselled  the  patients  both  at  their  bedside  and  in  my  office.  Patients  were  extremely  happy  with  the  over-all  healing  they  experienced  within  themselves.  All these experiences brought me closer to God and the  people.      In 1989, I was transferred to Sokho, a remote village mission in Bihar.  I was  the coordinator of the house and in-charge of the pastoral and medical care.  I also enjoyed gardening and cultivation.  Most of the time, the parish priest  was  out  of  station  and  I  took  care  of  the  pastoral  needs  of  the  people.  In  visiting  the  families in the villages I reached out to both the Christians and  the  non-Christians,  alike.  I  prepared  the  married  couples  in  rectifying the  inter-religious  marriages  and  brought  them  to  the  Catholic  fold.  I  also  conducted  retreats  for  the  people  to  deepen  their  faith.  By  being  with  the  9 �people  I  learnt  the  customs, practices and their language, Santali.  We had  two distinct groups of people to minister to, the Santhals and the Kharwars,  a  very  primitive  group.  In  order  to  accommodate  both  groups,  we  had  Sunday Masses either in Hindi or Santali.     While  the  Bhagalpur  diocese  was  building  a  concrete  house  for  us,  we  stayed  in  the  dispensary  as  our  mud-house  was  demolished.  After  the  blessing  and  inauguration  of  the  new  house,  Nazareth  Sadan,  by  Most  Reverend Bishop Saupin in January 1993, the Sisters, the parish priest and  a priest from Belatanr mission, drove me to Mandair for my next mission.      Mandair  is  situated  in  a  coal  mine  area.  We  stayed  in  a  village  house  in  Manjalitard  away  from  the  parish  and  the  main  road.  I  worked  as  the  pastoral Sister in the parish, helped in the small dispensary and also taught  in  the  school,  according  to  the  need.  Various  Tribal  groups  had  migrated  and  settled  there.  With  their varied backgrounds it was not easy for me to  work  among  them.  At  this  time,  many  problems cropped up in our parish  and  it  was  about  to  be  closed  down.  We  conducted  several  meetings  with  the  people  and  at  the  end  it  was  decided  that  they  wanted  the  parish  to  remain.     Seeing  our  struggle  to  reach  different  villages  with  no  proper  road,  the  parish  priest,  Reverend  M.D.  Abraham,  asked  the  SCN  provincial  whether  the  Sisters  would  like  to  move  closer  to  the  parish.  He  gave  us  an  option  that  the  parish  would  exchange  our  land  with  theirs  to  give  us  a  more  suitable site near the road.  A concrete building was made for dispensary in  the new place while we lived in Manjalitard village.      In  1996​,  I  was  transferred  to  Biharsharif  for  pastoral  ministry.  Besides  being coordinator of the community I took care of the hostel girls and taught  Moral  Science  in  the  parish  school.  I also visited the nearby villages alone  and  the  catechist  accompanied  me  to  go  to  the  far  off  villages  for  Mass.  I  took  care  of  the  Catholic  women's  group  in  the  parish.  Biharsharif  was  a  challenging mission for me as I did not get the needed cooperation from the  parish priest.      In 1999, from May to October, I helped out in the '​kishori' (​ adolescent girls)  training program in Almora. After the training was completed I came back  once again to the Spiritual Care department at Nazareth Hospital, Mokama.  The hospital had no chaplain and I had to depend on the parish priest for  Mass and Sacraments. When the hospital took the initiative to begin a ward  to care for the HIV/AIDS afflicted persons in collaboration with the  10 �government and other NGOs in 2003, I took a counselling course in  HIV/AIDS in Mumbai, Maharashtra in 2008 to work with them.      Through  the  spiritual care department, I was privileged to serve all types of  patients  and  their  relatives  until  the  decision  was  made  that  certain  departments  of  the  hospital  would  be  closed  temporarily  from  June  2012.  Sisters  Philomena  Kottoor,  vice-provincial,  and  Usha  Saldanha,  the  administrator,  officially  asked  me  to  resign  from  the  hospital  in  August  2012.  After having spent a total of sixteen and a half years in the spiritual  care department it was very painful for me to move out of the hospital.  I felt  my gifts in bringing healing and solace to the sick would be wasted away.  In  fact,  I  felt  a  kind  of  uselessness  within  me,  belonging  neither  in  the  community  nor  in  the  hospital.  It  took  me  some  time  to  overcome  those  feelings  and  move  on  in  life.  I  continue  to  reside  at  Ashirvad  South  community  in  the  hospital  campus.  I  like  to  work  in  the vegetable garden  and  keep  myself  busy  with  the  visitors  who  come  to  our  house.  Occasionally  I  am  called  to  the  hospital  for  counselling  patients  and  continue  to  take  care  of  the  hospital chapel and the weekly Mass and Holy  Hour.      Ever  since  I  entered  the  community  in  1965,  I  have  been  happy  working  with  people  of  many  different  languages  and  cultures.  I was well accepted  by them.  I experienced God's presence, grace and blessings with me always.  I  have  the  satisfaction  of  having  had  good  and successful ministries.  I am  very  happy  that  God  helped  me  and  directed  me  to  enter  the  SCN  Congregation and I am proud to be an SCN.      In  my  fifty  years  of  religious  life,  God  has  walked  with  me  very  closely.  I  recall  the  many  experiences  of  Jesus  being  with me and accompanying me  from village to village, one tea garden to the next and from person to person  wherever I went.  It was an assurance that Jesus is using me to carry on His  mission here and now.     I  am  so  very  grateful  to  my  God  and  my  community  for  giving  me  many  opportunities  to  be  in  varied  ministries  and  places.  I  am  lost  for words to  thank  God  enough  for  the  support,  encouragement  and  deep  trust  the  community leadership has placed in me.      Religious  life  is  a total self-giving and an offering of ourselves to God in the  service  of  people.  In  living  out  my  vows, I lived a life of commitment, deep  faith  and  brought  many  people  close  to  God.  I  have  always  tried  to  be  faithful  to  God  and  my  community.  My  religious  life  is  based  on  prayer,  11 �sacraments,  deep  faith  and  trust  in  Christ and Mother Mary.  They are my  source of life itself and from whom I draw constant strength and courage.      Now  I  spend  a  good  bit  of  my  time  in  prayer  and  I  pray  very  specially  for  each  Sister  and  her  family, needs of the Congregation, people in formation,  Church and the world.    Rosemarie Lakra, SCN      Consent given orally to publish the story on August 16, 2017    12 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Rosemarie Lakra, SCN (Self-Interview) Location The location of the interview India Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Rosemarie Lakra, SCN Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Lakra, Rosemarie, SCN; Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource SCN Archival Center Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived SCN Archival Center Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 8/16/2017 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for any type of publication of archival materials, including text, photographs, video, or audio must be secured from the Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Archival Center before publication. Contact archives staff for appropriate forms and contact information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MMC-RosemarieLakra India Sisters of Charity of Nazareth