5 10 108 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/2c5137a235bbc718bea8544bb32b79c7.jpg d6edd7ab745c1b697489d43680d3fb47 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/8e698839c5332ed8d95c206d7bf4f972.mp3 dcfb9a6b6e9bba236abd813305fb8736 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/02322b4a0f5bfc99b89f57d0c873343a.mp3 3a2a1acd7f5a2da2a567c1f8867ea1ec https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/de107ab72e4fe0781656265e4523c088.mp3 f3a15bae36c4b8cb571edf7ce5ef582d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sister Miriam Jane Hollowood Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sister Mary Schmidt Location The location of the interview Seton Hill College Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound OH - 81 Sr. Mary Schmidt Side I of Tape marked I and II OH I and OH II SMJH: This interview is being conducted as part of the oral history program of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill. The interviewee is Sister Mary Schmidt ,formerly known as Sister M. Thecla, and the interviewer is Sister Miriam Jane Hollowood. The interview is being conducted at Seton Hill College on July tenth, nineteen hundred eighty-four. SMJH: Sister Mary, will you tell us something about yourself before you came to Seton Hill? SMS: I am the oldest of six children. · My father was Henry Schmidt, who was a professor at Carnegie Mellon University. My mother was a teacher of Speech, what they then called Elocution, Unfortunately, I didn' t imbibe any of the things my parents had specialized in. I went to Sacred Heart Grade School and High School. I'm sure that's where I got my greatest feelings for the Sisters of Charity . SMJH: Who were some of the Sisters that you knew at that time? SMS: I suppose the ones I had in high school were the most memorable. I had my name from the marvelous Sister M. Thecla Carroll, who was a Latin and Mathematics teacher. Sister Thecla died very suddenly at the age of forty-four when I was a sophomore at Sacred Heart. This was my first experience with death. At that time, Mother Rose Genevieve Rodgers knew I was going to enter and she said she would like to save that name for me, so she did. The person who was ' most influential with me at Sacred Heart was Sister M. Claudia Glenn, who later became Mother M. Claudia Glenn. She taught English for the four years I was at Sacred Heart High School. She was really the first to note I am sure that I was going to become a Sister of Charity. When I was twelve or thirteen, a freshman in high school, I remember one day of being struck beyond words when Sister Claudia said: "Mary, I know that you are going to be a Sister." I said: Well, how did you know that?" I realize now that she could see it. Those were the two people who were most influential. Of course, there was a teacher, Sister Rose de Lima Henry, whom I had the pleasure of having for Latin for four years. There were others. However, if you are asking for the highlights, those are the highlights. SMJH: When Mother Claudia said that she knew you were going to be a Sister, did you know? SMS: Yes, that's why I was so surprised. It was just around that time when I was in the eighth grade going into high school that I simply realized that I was to be a Sister. At that time I thought it was rather glamorous, but I also knew that it was a way of devoting my entire life t·o some thing. This may sound naive, but I always knew that I had to devote my entire life to something. It couldn't be any less. That's why I didn't want to marry, not meaning anything derogatory about marriage. I remember how I was very drawn to praying in Sacred Heart Church. They had Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament on Fridays when'I was in grade school. I was always running back and forth between the church and home. We didn't live very far away. I also kept saying to mother: "I won't be away long. I'll be back soon. She of course didn' t mind. Then fortunately, or unfortunately, I realized that I wasn' t in any big hurry. My father, of course, just took it for granted that one went to college. I had no problem with that. I was delighted to go to college. Obviously, I went to Seton Hill. I had studied piano with my father for a number of years. He was very interested in my not being very good at it. He said: "If you are really interested in becoming a religious, I don't want you to become a piano teacher." He had seen too many of them who didn't have enough to do but listen to little children. I had nothing to do with it, but I have always been grateful to him since. He said: "I don't want you to learn any more piano if you are determined to do this." Before I went to college, that was the idea. It is also true that my first preference has been English, both reading and writing it. I really don't think I ever had any trouble with anything. I had an extraordinarily happy childhood and home. I look back on that as being very helpful to me. My mother was a convert, and had no great feeling for my wanting to be a Sister. She also had some problems with some of the sisters when my brothers were altar boys and choir boys. That wasn't important. She came to be very happy with the whole thing. That's pretty much in a nut shell what my early years were like. SMJH: Now, you said your Father was a Music Professor. Didn't he also teach at Seton Hill College? SMS: Well, he did along with his teaching at Carnegie Mellon. He didn' t teach at the college while I was a student. I know he was here while I was a white capped novice. He never left Carnegie Mellon. He only came up to Seton Hill College two days a week. This was during depression times when the younger students at Carnegie Mellon and at Seton Hill were not so numerous as they had been, and consequently he was able to condense his work at Carnegie Mellon into three days a week and teach at Seton Hill the other two. He was here for four or five years. I remember that Mother M. Evaline Fisher was the Mother Superior and also chair­ man of the Board of Directors for Seton Hill College. She wanted to get my father to be chair­ man of the Music Department, hoping that the connection with Pittsburgh might be influential in getting more students to come to the college. My Father and Doctor Reeves were great friends, and my father enjoyed his time at Seton Hill. I believe that it was difficult for my father and he should only have been at Seton Hill for a short time. Anyhow, he went back to Carnegie Mellon until he retired. All of his friends were there. It was like in the Henry James era. If you wanted to study music a lot, you went to Europe, and so he did. Many of his friends went to Europe also and when they came back they were the pioneer faculty of the Fine Arts at Carnegie Mellon University. This was about nineteen hundred ten. We were faculty children, and we went to the swimming pool and music classes, and Dr. Baker' s Christmas parties for faculty children. That's my recollection of it. It was kind of a nice thing. We enjoyed it. SMJH: That' s good, and he got to be part of our faculty at Seton Hill. You graduated from Seton Hill with a Bachelor's degree in English and then went to Pitt to obtain a Master' s degree in English. SMS: Yes, I graduated from Seton Hill in nineteen thirty-two, and again wasn't in any hurry to leave home, so I went to Pitt and graduated with a Master's degree in English in nineteen thirty­ four. My father was also in favor of this. He thought it was better for one to get as much college work as possible, as he had some insight to some of the problems people had. SMJH: So, you entered the Community then in nineteen thirty-four. What was the Community like at that time? I'm sure it was different for a woman entering with a Master's degree, which was not common at that time. SMS: It was difficult. I was the first one. People thought that you might become a snob. I was a great substitute in the fourth grade, about which I knew nothing, and I have never to this day set my foot inside a high school as a teacher. I understand this. It was the mentality of religious life at that time, and it would not happen today. I knew that here I was, I belonged, and never doubted for one second. I was extremely happy in the community. The first thing I did when I didn't let them decide was to go to Altoona to teach the seventh grade. Where upon I fell with a terrible case of scarlet fever. That ended my career as a mission sister after a few months. They really wanted someone as a seventh grade teacher. They felt that you would know so much more because of having a master's degree. Then I came back to Seton Hill. I was a black cap novice. For a time, I was not doing anything as the scarlet fever left me with a heart involvement, which evaporated later on, but I had it then. It was Christmas week. I had not made my vows yet. Behold, Sister Victoria Brown, who was an English teacher took a trip to the hospital and was retained for a while. So, here I was with a Master' s Degree in English. There must have been a great commotion among the powers. about my doing anything. Some of them felt it was the kiss of death for me to do anything. There they were, and here I was with this degree, so anyhow I did it. I became a part time teacher in the college the Spring Semester of . nineteen thirty-six. Somehow, I got a much better feeling for the sisters than what I had when I was in college. They seemed so much better. I didn't come to the community because I thought the sisters were marvelous. I came because I knew that was what I had to do with my life. I was presumably destined to be an English teacher. Sister Victoria, who was the treasurer decided that I should go to Oxford University in England for a degree. They didn't give a doctorate, but they gave a Master's, which they feel is superior to our American Doctorate. I was indeed supposed to go. All preparations were made. In the late summer of nineteen thirty;.e ight; there was a big scare in this country that the war was immanent. Well, it was decided that it wouldn't be good to send a young sister off into a war. So everyone said: "We' ll wait·until next year. War was declared on September fourth of nineteen thirty-nine, so I never went. At that same time since I was already to go somewhere, they packed me off to New Haven, Connecticut in September of nineteen thirty-nine. I was there until January of nineteen forty-three, which was four years. I stayed with the Sisters of Charity in New Jersey. They were near the University. They were so nice, but didn't understand what on earth I was doing. I enjoyed that life, that scholarly life I guess you would say, very much...being on my own. However, I knew I belonged in the community, so I hurried back to Seton Hill. SMJH: What did you do your dissertation on? SMS: I did my dissertation on Sir Thomas Moore. It turned out to be a very small subject within a great field. I knew that ifl was going to spend a year or year and a half on anybody, I wanted it to be someone I could feel some sympathy for. I wanted to take someone who had a religious mentality. I thought ifl took Alexander Pope or somebody like that for that length of time, I couldn' t take it! So, even though I had no course work in Tudor English, I took it on.....Sir Thomas Moore. I enjoyed it very much ...going through books, transcribing in black letters which was the way it was then. It has only been in the past twenty-five years that things were printed in ordinary letters. During all this time, the war was going on. I still wonder now why I didn't know more about the war, even though I read the New York Times every Sunday. I still want to know why I didn't know more. I think you become very engrossed and very selfish in a way while during library work. It' s very demanding! There were only four women working on their graduate work, but they too were talking about their work, and not the war. Men were at the age where they were drafted into the war. I'm certainly no expert on the second world war. SMJH: No, but you' re an expert on Thomas Moore. You have published some papers on Thomas More. SMS: Yes, I also have a very good experience of the generosity of this Community. When I finished there, I had all sorts of things that I came across while I was doing my dissertation. The dissertation on Thomas Moore was recognized on Thomas Mooore's use of St. Augustine as his English polemical work. It was certainly nothing anyone should be bored to death by reading it. But, while you are doing this you run across fascinating things which you want to pursue. So, it was the most natural thing in the world to want to write about these things, and.I did. I had many summers, one after the other when I went back to New Haven and did this writing. I got it into print, not anything marvelous. The first thing I had printed was an essay on St. Patrick because that was enlarged in nineteen forty-five shortly after I was back. SMJH: Why did you do St. Patrick? SMS: Well, again, there was a large group of women, possibly from the A.O.H. They wanted a speech, and I was asked if I would give this speech. They wanted something relative to the pious nature. It was in March, and I was asked to speak about St. Joseph or St. Patrick. I knew little about St. Joseph, and I knew that.St. Patrick had a lot of historical things. I made this great discovery that Patrick was a staff (couldn' t make next word out) character. So I got together some of these things and gave my speech. They were things that perhaps they had heard, but claimed they were all news to them. I got this speech sent to the magazine "America" for publication. Then after that I did other articles like St. Thomas Moore , The Medieval Devil and other funny things like that, which were also published in "America", and "The Catholic World". In those days, they were the only magazines that would print things with background, at least that I knew of. There was one article published in the "Scholarly Journal" and others were published in different places. (She didn't name these places). SMJH: Did you also have some poetry published? SMS" Yes, some short ones, which were also published in "America". SMJH: Did you want to say anything about coming back to Seton Hill and being on the Faculty? SMS: Yes, those years when I was teaching were probably the best years of my life. SMJH: That's great, and we'll continue this interview sometime later! SMJH: This is a continuation of the oral history interview with Sister Mary Schmidt. (Sr. Miriam Jane didn't give any date here). Sister, when you returned from Yale University, you became a full time member of the English Department at Seton Hill. What were some of the courses that you taught? SMS: Well, I taught Writing. We all of course taught Freshman English, and I happened to like that very much. I also enjoyed teaching Writing. We also had a course in "Advanced Composition" we called it. English Majors were required to take it. At least they did. Then I taught Shakespeare, Literary Criticism, and sometime later, I'm not sure exactly when, but I taught Twentieth Century English Literature. I never was an American literature person. I didn' t have any advance work in it and didn't have a feel for it. As I recall; we , especially young teachers, took for granted that we taught whatever.needed to be taught. It didn' t matter how many hours it happened to be. One became the advisor for the publications that would be corning in and for the "Quarterly," which at that time was a rather active thing. It came out three times a year and included a commencement issue. Many marvelously talented girls whose things I value very much, and have never thrown out were printed in it. The other thing, of course, was that you were appointed to be a class advisor, as I was, pronto, by Sister Victoria Brown, who was the young Dean at the college. I wanted to write and do all these things, but I became a class advisor immediately. So, the class came in the Fall of nineteen forty-three (some of what she said here is disconnected for want of a way to put it), right when I was getting started. I was the class advisor for the class of nineteen forty-seven. I put on the Freshman show " Anne" of? (couldn't understand what she said). ·The Freshman show had something to do with frogs. I don't remember what it was. A lot of the people laughingly remember some of the songs in it. I do remember how desperately hard it was to get the girls together to get the show together, while at the same time having many other responsibilities. You still had large charges. SMJH: When you say you had large charges to do, what exactly does that mean? SMS: You had a lot of manual stuff which you had to do. You were responsible for cleaning one of the classrooms. You did this for quite a number of years. Some of my dear friends used to come and help me clean. It was in Room 236. They would shove the chairs around, etc. SMJH: Was that your weekly charge? SMS: You cleaned the blackboard every day. Only once a week did you do the marvelous pushing the mop around. These are funny little things, but as faculty members, you were expected to do all these things. You were primarily a good sister, and after that a faculty member. I don't say that with any bitterness. It was just a funny situation, and that's the way it was! Even the chairman of our department, Sister Electa Boyle felt this, and she had done the same. So, there wasn't anything the matter with this. She had no feelings as to the number of things people had to do. You see, it all came through alright. I don't think I became any less the teacher. I think you're young enough. You rise to the occasion! You have good health, and it's expected. SMJH: In addition to your full time teaching, advising, and doing all these other things, you were also responsible for all your community activities. You took time out to go to Quarter Prayers, and did you go to recreation with the community? SMS: Why of course! I skipped recreation as often as I could. There were many evening meetings which I had to attend. I was never very fond of recreation. I think it was a contrived thing! It wasn't really recreational. However, you did all those things. You rose at five-fifteen AM even though you lived on the floor with the students and were responsible for them. I distinctly remember that when Mother Maria Benedict Monahan was confronted with the fact that the college sisters were not getting enough sleep because we had charge of the floors. In other words, they were supposed to be quiet, but not until eleven o'clock. If they weren't quiet, you took care of it, but you still got up at five-fifteen. Mother Maria Benedict said of course that this was fine because we could always catch up on sleep during the time we had between classes. I think that this was her sincere view of the matter. I remember getting very exhausted, and was relieved once I no longer had this responsibility. I really never enjoyed floor duty. SMJH: Did you say that the girls were to be silent at eleven o'clock? SMS: They weren' t silent. They just weren't supposed to shriek, etc. I slept on Fifth Canevan next to a floor of double decked beds. SMJH: Double decked beds? SMS: Yes, they were all double decked beds. We had more students than we had room for. We didn' t have Brownlee or Havey then. They would merrily jump from top to bottom and laugh and laugh. Of course, I made some of my best friends that way too. The only thing is as I think back on it was that it was an arduous life. I don't think it made me a wretched teacher. I think you rise to the occasion , and you can do it. However, I would not ask anyone else to do it. SMJH: As adviser to the Setonian, you probably kept late hours too. SMS: Well, I suppose so. I don't seem to remember much about whether I did or not, but probably did. SMJH: When you were adviser to the Setonian, who was your Printer, do you remember? SMS: Yes, Mr. George Berrry. He had been Adviser to the Setonian when I was Editor during my years in college. He was such a dear man, and a wonderful friend. I remember when I was a Senior, he brought the paper into my house in Pittsburgh. It had just come out . It was during the Summer. I suppose there was a change in Printers. I don't have any recollection of when George Berry died. I didn' t keep the Setonian for years and years. I had it before I went to Yale, and sometime after that. The other thing that I began to do was "The Alumni Quarterly", so every vacation that you had, you're down in the office typing up the news for the next "Quarterly." Here again, with all my ambitions to write, and here I was typing class news. However, I did go away many Summers , and this provided me with opportunity to write. I have never loved anything so much as being a teacher in the classroom. Consequently, it was announced to me in February of nineteen fifty-seven ,by Mother M. Claudia Glenn , that I would not be teaching any longer. This was a great blow to me. I was very unhappy about this. SMJH: Now, you were not to teach any longer, and for what reason? SMS: It was because I was to be in the President's office. I was to be the Assistant to the President of the college per Mother M. Claudia Glenn. I was Assistant, and not Vice President, because she thought I was too young to have this title. I was only forty! I didn't know what I was going to do. The big thing I wanted to do was teach. I said: "But I have courses, and Mother Claudia said:" They will be taken care of." I kept one course going for three years. I also had the honors course, and I kept it up after I got into the office. To a degree I would have evening seminars for the honor students. That's how I came to know Mary Ann Crenner (sounded like) and others. SMJH; Who was the President of the college at that time? SMS: The President at that time was: Father William Granger Ryan. We were always kind of friendly. He used to put his head in the window by the Canevan arch where I had my office. I would be facing the window and suddenly there would be this large head looking at me in the window, laughing. I knew I would never, never, ever learn the alphabet system of that kind of office. It was like another world. Father Ryan was marvelous to work with, so that made up for a lot of other things. That job just grew in a topsy turvy fashion. From the first moment when I talked to Father Ryan that lovely February morning in nineteen fifty-seven, I went right to Mother Claudia. She said: ''Now, Father Ryan expects that you will go over to his house." I went, and there he was wearing a neck brace because he was having so much tension. He would be away and come back this way. So, without any direction from Mother Claudia, because she was most evasive, Father Ryan talked to me. He told me that whenever he was away, he would support me in any decisions, right or wrong, which I made in his absence. I thought...what am I going to decide? So, he was stuck with the assistant title too. We never had a bad moment in thirteen years. SMJH: What were your responsibilities as assistant to the President? SMS: Well, I started out by going through the mail when he was away. That' s when I had very little to do. He didn't quite know yet what to.do with the assistant to the President. That's why I went to the Archives at that time to help Sister M. Electa Boyle. Things began to grow. For one year I could teach one class. When Father Ryan was home, he worked very hard at indoctrinating me to the job, but he was away a good bit of the time. It wasn't a clear cut job. I don't understand it myself, but that's the way it was. Father Ryan was stuck with the assistant title for some time. He wasn't permitted to say what my title really was. At one point he called me "Dean" of the faculty, which I didn't understand either. Then, after a long time, we did get around to my being Vice President. It was an experience which he and Sister Muriel Flamman made quite bearable. The thing that' s so wonderful about this is, that Sister Muriel as Dean of the college was next in line as President...ex officio. All of a sudden here is this other office created between, so I took precedence. She made me feel so welcome. It was the most beautiful experience. It gave me an insight into her which of course extended into several years. I don't know of any other person who could not only make you feel welcome, but was also so gracious. When I say that we never had any bad moments in the office, I don't mean that we didn't have numerous bad moments together. We had numerous, different kinds of people confronting us. We worked two against the world a great deal of the time. I don't remember a great many details in those early years. Father Ryan was doing a great deal of pioneering in the Pennsylvania college organization. He and other independent college presidents, besides universities, really did more in those years for the status of colleges in Pennsylvania, for the scholarship program, for the whole scene of private colleges in Pennsylvania. These were the men who did it all...back scene. There is a section here that is very difficult to hear. Sister's speech is not clear...too fast and words are run together. Suffice it to say, that I believe what she is saying here is that she didn't have a clue about what needed to be done regarding the area of accomplishing the goals that she attributed to Father William Granger Ryan and other college presidents. Sister says again that she had to learn everything from Father Ryan. Her own words were: The Presidents were always very remote. I knew Father Reeves well, but would never just walk into his office. As a faculty member, there was no relationship at all. It was an "on the job" learning experience. Looking back, I don't think I would have asked to be relieved of this job because Father Ryan was such a good priest and educator that I would not have voluntarily left. SMJH: Weren't those also important years in the college in the new arrangement of the board of trustees? Did that happen during those years? SMS: I'll tell you what happened. This was one of the many things which Father Ryan knew he had to accomplish. It was a strange system retained by women religious communities, not sure about men, by which their Mother General and her Officers were in the primary control of the college. Now, "The Middle States' , had been confronting them for some time on this, realizing that they needed larger ranging support in their board. They needed people who understood finances and all kinds of things. These Sisters of course, with all good will did not understand. They were very fearful, not only ours, but there were many others. They were very fearful of losing control. They thought people would run away with the money bags or something like that. They would choose to let anything happen which did not include them primarily. So, Father Ryan got together a board, which was an advisory board. It met for the first time on March twelfth, nineteen hundred fifty-seven, just after I appeared in the office. They were some of the best people to have in Greensburg. SMJH: Who were some of the people? SMS: Well, you had: Chuck Lynch, Tom Wentley (if spelling is correct), Ed Brinker, representatives from the banks... the general people who were knowledgeable and acceptable in Greensburg. Father himself had some friends from elsewhere. There was: Mrs. Helen Cutting, who was a very wealthy woman from New Jersey. She came to all the board meetings from New Jersey. There were others. Oh, I forgot, Jack Coulter was on it. They didn' t really have authority, but they did have a title "Board of Trustees", which was very cunning (believe this is the word she used), but no-one seemed to object to it. They all knew that they were not really a trustee board. So, the Sisters, the Council would meet with them. They did a great many things for us....using their influence financially, getting the city to do things, etc. Sometimes advice was welcome, sometimes not. However, they were there to support and help. They could never get the "Go Sign", to make that Board a legal body, which was really in control of the college, until finally twelve years later, under Mother M. Victoria Brown's leadership in office. She knew what had to be. By this time, "The Middle States" began to be rather insistent about it. So. She and her Council agreed to it. We had a long process of dissolving and incorporating...couldn't understand everything Sr. Mary was saying here. Pat Pacello (if spelling is correct) is and has been our attorney for years. He helped us to get things resolved. He worked in the courts. He even offered to go around to the various communities and explain to the Sisters that we were not giving anything away. We were simply strengthening our Organization. It was determined therefore that there would be fifteen sisters and fifteen lay people on the Board. This was in nineteen sixty-nine, and that is still true. At this time, Father Ryan's health was very poor. He was completely worn out. He got this Board started December of 1969, and announced to them that due to his declining health, he was retiring. He left in June . The Board was finally an accomplished fact. That was his greatest accomplishment for the college. SMJH: We want to talk about your years as President of the college. That will be the topic of our next session. Tape ill Begins Here July 4, 1984. SMJH: This is a continuation of the oral history program with Sister Mary Schmidt. The date is: Wednesday, July fourth, nineteen eighteen-four. Sister Mary was named acting President of Seton Hill College by the Board of Trustees in May of nineteen seventy, and elected to the office of President in nineteen seventy-one. She held that office until her resignation in June of nineteen seventy..se ven. In a newspaper article from "Westmoreland's Wednesday," dated June first, nineteen seventy-seven, the reporter says: "The entire academic world was in turmoil in nineteen, seventy-one, the year that Sister Mary Schmidt was made President of Seton Hill. Student and faculty dissension that arose during the height of the Vietnam conflict continued. Declining enrollments were plaguing all but a few colleges and universities . The image of institutions of higher learning had never been lower. Graduates from colleges all over the country faced a depressed job market. Vocational schools cut into a traditional student school, and career minded young men and women began to seek specialized technical training. Seton Hill was not spared the repercussions of these problems. Happily for the college, the woman who walked into the President's Office in nineteen seventy-one was equal to the task that lay ahead." End of quote. SMJH: Sister Mary, we know that this is true. Will you tell us how you were able to confront the problems and issues of the seventies? SMS: Well, I should say initially that the woman who walked into the President's office at that time had no convictions as to whether she could take care of these things. Neither had she any vision of what was to come. We were, I would say immediately plunged into a horrendous despot in the Summer of nineteen seventy-one. We had, without any warning a smaller freshman enrollment that we had ever dealt with before. The Board, my very attentive and careful Board, immediately said that we could not afford to carry deficits of this sort. The only way we could save money to stabilize (couldn't clearly hear) the College budget was to cut the Faculty. Since the student enrollment was smaller, it was of course assumed that a smaller number of faculty would do. Simplistically of course that wasn't true, but it turned out that I had no choice. I was faced head on with the need to make a study of class size and Faculty members. So, we made a careful view of the whole thing, so that we had at least a reasonable case. Then came the dramatic announcement to terminate three or four young faculty members. This, at the time, was a kind of bombshell, since the unrest of both family and students had already been felt across the country in large universities. It's always later in reaching the smaller, conservative women's campuses. All these faculty members and students were well aware that their time had come. And so, the announcement of the termination of these faculty members, caused quite a commotion, but it resulted shortly thereafter in the Pennsylvania Labor Union being invoked. We therefore were informed that our Faculty had shown that they had desired membership in our college in view. That, of course, threw us into a very bad state, because a labor union in a college of our size, would be fatal. The demands were very high for salaries, etc. It would have been the end of the college. (There was the roar of what sounded like a train here, preventing me from getting what Sister Mary had to say). So, without going into the gruesome details, I would say that we had to go through a period of trying to do everything that we could to help to confront this problem. We were facing an election by our Faculty as to whether or not the college would be accepted. SMJH: Were the Sisters on the Faculty permitted to vote? Were they part of that? SMS: No, the Sisters, normally were not permitted to vote. There was a great deal of feeling among the Sisters. They too felt very keenly about their salaries and conditions, etc. However, the National Relations Board in Pittsburgh, advised that we have a lawyer, and they had a lawyer to determine the Sisters right to vote. It turned out in our favor. They didn't have a vote. We were having this vote then by the lay Faculty, and while you were permitted to talk individually to the Faculty members and Administrator, you couldn't have a meeting. So, it was very draining, and a wretched experience all the way around. Finally, the day came when the secret ballot was to be cast, and this was done at the end of the day to the consternation of the other members who had been brought in from the Pennsylvania Labor Union. The vote was two or three in favor of the Union, but the others were against it, but before that, you had no idea how people were going to vote on a secret ballot. You may have had pleasant conversation or so, but you don' t know how they are actually going to vote. This had been triggered by the termination of those young faculty members, and they lost. This was still in nineteen seventy one-seventy­ two. We were also scheduled for a Middle States exhibit (too difficult to hear), which as you know comes every ten years. We had a special case study that year. It took much more time than the one you had in nineteen eighty-two. Very able administrators from a number of colleges come. I happened to be in the office the night before they were to start their work. " You may find that there is more entertainment on our campus, because our students are going to demonstrate that we are really a wretched Organization because we terminate faculty members and we don't do anything that's right!" Of course, they all laughed. The only thing is that I'm afraid they will never do it because they are ultra conservative. I just want you to be ready for it. Nothing of course happened. Things went on. We didn't have to terminate any more faculty members the following year. The enrollment began to pick up. I think, we have a note here, that at some point in nineteen seventy-seven, we had seven hundred ninety full time students, whereas in nineteen seventy, we had six hundred. For us, that was a rather large growth figure. That was not because of me, that was simply the time ( couldn't understand...sounded like stanzika...never heard the word) perhaps in which we were able to get back on our feet. Perhaps it wa-s becauseof all the turmoil we had in the beginning. Things really cleared the books were cleared, and the budget was cleared, and we could go forward. The national situation which you referred to in the newspaper article you read meant that no one going into any kind of office in nineteen seventy-one could go in starry eyed. Everyone knew that faculty and students were no longer satisfied with the status quo. Everyone knew that the plans presented for growth in the nineteen sixties had to be scrapped. It was a lovely plan, beautiful building, but we could not afford it, anymore than we could afford the fine arts building. In other words, instead of dreaming for these wonderful things, you had to begin to work on campus with the people involved in consolidation. You had to realize that the only building you were going to do thereafter, was replacement, and I think that has been true. We did fix up a Music wing while I was in office. That was done with a grant from "The R. K. Mellon Foundation." SMJH: That was an interesting building, was it not? Wasn't it the old laundry building? The institution no longer provided laundry service for the students or the sisters living here. SMS: Yes, that is all true, and I think that the architect was very clever also in leaving a solid stone foundation on the building. Then when the state dictated that we could no longer use St. Mary's for classrooms or for indeed much of anything, we had to replace that building, and we did. The original Stokes Mansion was caving in on itself. The whole building had to go. ·We had the option of spending a couple of million dollars of rebuilding it as a monument, but we didn't choose to do that. We were then able to sell it. ( Sister Mary said something else about this, but it was garbled). The Home Economic Department came up here after much commotion. People came up here, and they were happy not to be running up and down the hill. The building which took its place is a lovely building. There was concern at the time, that it wouldn't be too nice because there is not much sun shining in that area. However, that wasn't the case. It turned out to be quite satisfactory. I have heard people later on remarking how well the building blends in with the other buildings on the campus. The Security members said how wonderful it is that the building fits in with the structural harmony of the other buildings. My point in bringing this up is to say that instead of going ahead with grandiose building plans, one had to made do, and we've been making do ever since. SMJH: So, the Music and Home Economic Buildings were put up during your time in office? SMS: Yes, the plans for the Music Building were done before that per the grant from the "R. K. Mellon Foundation"as said earlier. Then I went to the "Kresge Foundation" in Detroit following . the arrangement Sister Dorothy Jacko had made with them. They gave us a large sum of money which was used for the Home Economic Building. I don't think you would have received money during those years to put up something lovely ..e.g. a student union building. It would have been difficult to prove that you were going to use the facility within a certain time limit. I believe I think of those years on the negative side. It seemed like you were constantly fighting for something. I do remember a couple of things which I was very pleased about. We began the Campus Ministry Program some time during those years. I don't recall exact dates. My memory is all I'm going on. Perhaps someone would like to look it up in the files. I remember that the students' response to the initiation of the Campus Ministry was tremendous! Most ofus were 12 very happy, because it was difficult in the sixties to find students attracted to a program that was altruistic and outgoing. They were too concerned with running around in their bare feet, wearing cut off jeans, wondering why they couldn't have this or that etc. The reception the students gave to the concept of campus ministry and the actuality of it was a remarkable thing. We also found among the Faculty a great cooperative spirit, usually because there is an obvious need, to see how to see what could be done about bringing (not the word she used, but after several tries couldn't understand) the Academic and Liberal Arts Departments to some additional thing which would make them clearly oriented without destroying their liberal arts tenor and caliber. We knew we couldn't think what to say in regard to our liberal arts stance and quality. We also knew that we had to show some practicality. It seemed wonderful to me, that our Faculty, one· after another, would come up with many acceptable things, which seemed to tide us over in that period when people needed to be shown that their education could be practical. The things, of course, which appealed to me personally, were the outside activities Membership and meetings which we were obliged to attend at the Pennsylvania colleges and the middle states areas, and national meetings. Those 'were things which broadened your horizons for your work at home. They were very good, although they took a lot of traveling. Other things which one feels more constructive about was going around seeking funds from people. It seems to me at least, that the responses from directors of Foundations, and from small Corporations, and people that you went to talk to, was always quite positive and pleasant, if not in dollars, at least in attitude. Those were things which I found myself enjoying more than fussing around with why someone did or did not do what they were supposed to do. It' s a matter of temperament. I apologize, can't help it. I also found it to be very important to make the college well known in Greensburg. Father Maida (sounds like) did a very good job of doing this. To keep that going was something too to be visible, belong to the Chamber of Commerce, where Seton Hill was a place instead of a mysterious element on the Hill. I don't know, but I believe that's enough, don't you? SMJH: I think it is very impressive and interesting. I would like to quote from the newspaper once again. When you left the Office in nineteen seventy seven, the paper said: "Sister Mary leaves the Office of the President, having established programs that respond to the needs of the Seton Hill student body. She has built working relationships that will endure. The college is financially sound. Enrollment is at an all time high. Structures and systems of working are established that will benefit Seton Hill for years to come." Sister, we know that all these things are true, and they are true because of your enthusiastic leadership. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio cassette tape Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 27:04 28:25 26:45 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 96kHz Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Schmidt, Sister Mary Oral History Description An account of the resource An oral history of Sister Mary Schmidt, a Sister of Charity of Seton Hill from 1934 until 1993. The interview was conducted by Sister Miriam Jane Hollowood on July 10 and 18, 1984. Sister Mary Schmidt was born on June 26th, 1911 in Pittsburgh, Pa. Daughter of Henry K. Schmidt and Mabel Green, Mary Jeannette Schmidt entered the community on March 25th, 1934 at the age of 22 as Sister Mary Schmidt. Sister Mary Schmidt was a professor of English at Seton Hill College from 1936 to 1957. She served as the Executive Vice President of Seton Hill College from 1957 to 1970. Then, the following year Sister Mary Schmidt served as President of SHC from 1971 to 1977. Sister Mary Schmidt received her B.S. in English, Psychology, and Philosophy from Seton Hill College in 1932. Then, she received her M.A. in English from the University of Pittsburgh in 1934. Sister Mary Schmidt went to Yale University for her Ph.D. in English Language and Literature in 1943, where she would pursue her postdoctoral research at both Yale and Columbia Universities. Sister Mary Schmidt passed on April 26th, 1993 at the age of 81. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Archives of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984/07/10 1984-07/18 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource All rights belong to the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill, Greensburg, Pennsylvania. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio cassette tape Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OH-81 Subject The topic of the resource Sister Mary Schmidt Education Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/a7556e4dc3c2489aa33a791d0b1215f3.jpg cfcaaded973ef9fa0945152e7c689bc0 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/3fc3f8f174dae1d5c268f4c88ca5021b.pdf d03ffbc8aa0bcbf7f9034e997e02bf3a PDF Text Text OH-84: Sister Mary Agnes Carey This interview is being conducted as part of the Oral History Program of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill. The interviewee is Sister Mary Agnes Carey. The interview is being conducted by Sister Mary Noel Kernan at St. Joseph’s School, Kangjin, Korea. The date is April 23, 1987. SMNK: Sister Mary Agnes, have you always wanted to be a missionary? SMAC: I think I can say yes to that. When I was little, I always went to a Catholic school, always was attracted to religious life. I thought I would be a Sister someday, but what community…no thought of that. This was in grade school, I can remember Sister at one time asking, what do you want to be when you grow up? I remember I really longed to be a Sister. This might have been a fake. I even said, I am trying now to be nice to little children, but I guess I had to be nice to little children because there were others at home. There were three younger than I. SMNK: How many were in your family? SMAC: There were seven of us. Just five boys and two girls. But anyway, this missionary question. My first younger brother, Jimmy, was two years younger. We were in from 5th grade on at Cathedral School. If I was in 5th grade, he would have been in 3rd because we were only two years apart. We would walk to school so that we could get there in time to go to the 8 o’clock Mass at the Cathedral and we were right across the street to get to school. You had to be in school by 8:30, as I recall. I remember, after Communion, we wouldn’t receive Holy Communion, we would have had our breakfast first. We didn’t like to be late. We would have been in trouble if we were late. We got to school on time, but often walking to school or walking home – it was about a half an hour walk from our school to our home. We would talk about what we were going to be and we were both going to be missionaries. Go to a foreign country and all that. Jimmy, when he got to high school – he went to Central – after the second year, he was fussing that he wanted to be a Brother. So my parents let him go, but he knew that he was welcome back home if he went and didn’t like it. He actually was a Brother for 35 years. During that time, I remember I was at Seton �Hill, it was in the 1940s, he wrote to me a series of letters. He felt he should be a priest. In order to be…there are no priests in the Christian Brothers, so if he would be a priest, he would have to leave that. Yet he loved the Brothers. He put it in the hands of his superiors and eventually they told him they thought his vocation was to be a Brother. I remember the last letter – I received one and about two days later, I received another one. That one said, thank God, it’s decided I will stay with the Brothers. He stayed. He was actually a Brother for 35 years. At the time, when he decided he wanted to be a priest, he was Provincial. I think one Brother every year was selected to make a second novitiate in Rome and he had that opportunity and so on. He had been in charge of their Scholasticate for a number of years. It must have been an awfully hard decision to make and yet, he was getting older and this was what… and as a child, he had always said that before he ever heard of Brothers. I think it must have been his teachers up to that point had been Sisters and most of the people in Pittsburgh didn’t know anything about Brothers until they came. I remember my mother sort of fighting that battle for years. Why doesn’t he go the whole way and become a priest? That’s actually the way it turned out. By the time he became a priest, both my parents were dead. In fact, my father, he died just a month after Jimmy went to the seminary. That seminary, when he decided to be a priest, he went to Baltimore. That’s where he had been all of his religious life, in Baltimore. He had never come back to Pittsburgh to teach there. The Cardinal of Baltimore asked him what seminary he would like to go to. He gave him two choices. In Baltimore, St. Mary’s Seminary or Emmitsburg. He said he chose Emmitsburg. I wonder sometimes, it was probably his association with Sisters of Charity. The Cardinal told the Rector, who was Father Flynn at that time, that when he felt that Jimmy was ready for ordination to let him know and he’d ordain him. He went to the seminary in January of 1970. At Easter time, he was made a deacon and in May, he was ordained with that class. The boys at the seminary had a great time with him. They said, well, we have heard of instant soup and instant coffee, but this is the first time we have heard of instant priests! So that’s Jimmy. He didn’t become a missionary. Anyway, back when you were talking about missionary. My mother, when we had anybody broach this idea of being a missionary, she always said - a missionary term meant foreign missionary, you know. It did to us, too. She always said, there’s enough work to be done at home. Home missions. Lord rest her. She died in 1955. It was 1960 when I came here. I think maybe she was rooting for me up there. She saw a global picture by that time, perhaps. As far as our family was concern, my mother had great faith, I think and my father was a great guy, too. Not as religious in the sense of devotional as my mother, but I remember hearing him say one time, the two great devotions are the Sacred Heart and the Blessed Mother. If you have those, you can’t get in trouble. He was faithful. One thing I remember, right before I entered, my mother told me – and I think she never told me before that because she thought it might influence – She said, before each child was born, she offered the child to go, but asked God to give the child good health and good morals and if the child could learn to get along. I think God answered her prayers because I became a Sister and Jimmy was a Brother and then a priest. My brother, Tom, is now pastor in Pittsburgh at St. Simon and Jude Church and on June 14th, we will celebrate his Golden Jubilee ordination. She had her answer, I think. SMNK: There were other children? �SMAC: Yes, there were five boys. Frank, the oldest, died in 1985. Father Tom was next. And Joe. Joe is in East Liberty now. A faithful parishioner there. I came next. There were three boys ahead of me. Then Jimmy that we just talked about. Bill who lives in Lancaster now. Grace is in Florida. The other day when I was cleaning out the drawer, trying to get ready to go to the States. I came across a retreat notice that I had and as I looked, I could see Jimmy. Jimmy had said to me at one time, right before I was making retreat, we didn’t know what good hands we were in when growing up. I remember him talking to mother about retreat and meditation. He was telling her about it and she was telling him how when she washed us, fed us, and took care of us that she was praying for us all the time. He said, wow, we didn’t know all that was being done for us even before we were able to remember. About that missionary business. Since my mother, she wanted us – as I said before, she certainly prayed that if God wanted us in His service, she would gladly give. She was a little hesitant on foreign mission things, you know. She used to say, there is enough work to be done at home. I guess there still is, always is. I remember thinking when I was in high school, I should think about home missions. The Sisters of the Blessed Sacrament hadn’t been founded too long before. I remember at school the Mercy Sisters telling us that Mother Drexel had made her novitiate there and not Mercy in Pittsburgh. But I never got around to writing and I suppose, I hope, the Lord had in mind that I could fulfill that wish somewhere, somehow, some other way. SMNK: And you’ve done that. SMAC: I hope. I’m here, anyway. I am trying to think, that first year when we were in Mokpo, none of us knew the language, but Sr. Alice had really looked a little harder at it before we came. She has a good ear. A music teacher. Very good ear. She picked up a good bit. One day when we were working, somebody came to the door and I went. The man started talking to me and I started answering him, but he left. Sr. Alice laughed and she said to me, Sister, if you would have spoken to him in English, he might have understood you. I said, wasn’t I speaking Korean? She said, no, you were speaking Spanish! I guess it had to be a foreign language and the only foreign language I knew a little bit about was Spanish, so that was it. Father Tom Lacey was here the other day and he had somewhat the same experience. He was talking about that. When he thinks of a foreign language, he thinks of Spanish and sometimes he is saying something in Spanish. That year, we could talk with each other and we knew what was going on there. Somebody was always coming in and having something funny to tell, especially with words, with language. One of the Caritas Sisters used to come over in the evenings. They shared with us. They gave us half their house, the better half, I think. One Sister, she wanted to learn some English. She would have questions and one night she kept saying “Hogan.” She would say something and say “Hogan.” She would say something else. This “Hogan,” because it was an Irish name, was sort of getting to us. We wondered what in the world “Hogan” was. Whatever she was saying, none of us could make out what “Hogan” was. The next day, a teacher we had was talking and she said, “Hogan.” We jumped at her. Everybody said, what’s “Hogan.” It just meant or. O-R. This Sister was saying, you could say it this way or this way. We knew neither one, so it didn’t make any sense at all. I remember one day, we had gotten our stove. Just gotten it. Things had come from the States. We had a kerosene stove. We were going to celebrate that night. We were going to have a party, I guess. Sr. Mary Noreen was making cocoa and she asked me for the sugar. What I thought, maybe it was marked sugar. I took it and gave it to her. After she makes it - [tape cuts out] We knew we couldn’t drink �it. We threw it away. Where are we going to throw it? We opened the sliding doors and we threw it out in a big pile of snow. That sliding door we opened was on a passageway from a little room we used as a dining room into our kitchen. Would you know, that snow melted, but that cocoa..that salty cocoa was there and everytime we passed we’d say, my sin is always before me. SMNK: So the language gave you many interesting things and then you also learned to share community those years? You got very close like that, very much. SMAC: Speaking of language, it wasn’t always the Korean language, it was also the English language. You see, the people, the missionaries we knew were the Columban Sisters and there were 2 American Sisters among the ones there. Most of the Irish priests. There were some American Columbans, too. I remember one day the pastor came down and he said to me, we had been there just about a month and everyone was helping us, too. Where you could get this and try to find a cook for us and so on. He came down and he said, Sister, you never paid me for that paraffin. We didn’t buy any paraffin. And he said oh, you Americans, call it kerosene. We had. We paid him really quick for the paraffin or kerosene, whatever you have. We went to a picnic with the Columban Sisters one day and one of them said…Mother Mary Lucy said, and now we’ll take flasks with us. Flasks? Flasks meant to us something in your back pocket, you know. They called a thermos, a flask. A Sister sent over one time and she wanted gum. We didn’t know…gum, chewing gum. The Irish would say, we hadn’t a clue what she wanted. It turned out to be paste. We never called it gum. SMNK: A moment ago, I was thinking how close you seemed in community. The American Sisters seem to know each other, to know one another and one another’s family’s and one another’s interests very much. Much more so than I see in the United States. How would you account for that? SMAC: I think we were isolated and we could speak English. Incoming mail was a big event. I’ve read stories of little town’s where the children went out to watch the train pass by. This was a daily something. We had to talk about something. The thing we knew most intimately are our people. A letter would come and you wanted to share it with the others. Everybody seemed interested and you began to know the names of each of the family and different things about them. Funny things. Sr. Alice would say, her mother used to say, if you haven’t head your ‘nough, you’ve had your share. Things like this. We’d begin to quote some of these things that each one had found at home. Then when we went home, you’d call… Sr. Alice’s mother. We met her. We had dinner at her home before we came. There was some kind of meeting there. You would just naturally go home and you’d be sure to call everybody’s mother and father or somebody in the family or this kind of thing. Really, it was like our extended family. As it goes now, this is coming with the Korean Sisters. As you get to know them, the ones you are more familiar with, the ones you’ve lived with, you feel close to their families, too. As you’ve noticed, I think, this year we’ve had a number of deaths in the family’s of the Sisters. Well, you know what death means. As families too, as we begin getting older and you’re experiencing this. I think that life and death brings us together in this way. I had much the same experience out West. When it was isolated, when it was far away. When you went out there, you didn’t know when you were going to get back. It was the same thing here. When we came, the thought was we would go home every seven years. Well then, I think when Sister Mary Noreen, she was, perhaps, she was here seven years before she got back. I had to �go to a Chapter, even though I wasn’t elected to it, Bishop Connare said we were supposed to have a representative from here. I just went and sat there and finally, Sr. said I could say something, so they asked me to talk about Korea. I really think that maybe the people who went first to Bethesda or Glyndon, they probably had something of that feeling. You were more united because it was like family. Really and truly like a family because you had to talk. The most likely thing would be what you knew best. SMNK: One of our concerns when the Sisters first went to Korea was that you would have a great many physical hardships to endure. Do you have any comment on that? SMAC: One of the worries, I know, before we came, people were thinking about the food. That we wouldn’t be able to eat the type of food they have here, but from the very beginning, Archbishop ____ and the Columban Sisters could get things at the commissary, the foreigner’s commissary, so anybody that was going to Seoul, any of the communities would ask what you wanted. For example, for breakfast, we were always able to get bread, so we could have toast. You always could get eggs. No problem with that. You could buy jellies. Jams. Things we would have at home like for lunch where you would have lunchmeat or something like that, that wasn’t…you could get sometimes get cans of Spam. You can eat too much Spam, you know, sometimes. We were careful. People had warned us about kimchi that this was very hot, spicy. For your own healthsake, it would be wise not to indulge too much. Some of the priests thought they wanted to go Korean all the way, but they did too much too soon in the line too soon and they really ruined themselves. We, certainly, were never tempted to do that. We were interested in eating as much as we could of what people were eating and the Koreans were always saying to us, what do you eat? They could see we were healthy. I don’t know whether I mentioned this before, but one time when Sr. Alice was teaching…we used to divide the English conversation classes. We would take 45 children and three Sisters would take 15 a piece. We should have been able to do something with them and we did, I suppose, because at least their pronunciation was alright. Sister Alice, one day, she went in after 7th period, which was sometime late in the afternoon, and she had 15 of these little girls who couldn’t learn Korean very well even. They said to her, Sister, of course they were talking in Korean, tell us about America. She said, in English? They said, oh no, no. She said, what do you want to know about America? You ask me questions and I will answer them. They said, what do you eat? She said, for breakfast we have toast. Well, what’s toast? She explained what that was. Toast, coffee, and fruit, and eggs. One little girl said, no rice and kimchi? And she said, no. Well, for lunch? What do you have for lunch? She said, well you usually have a sandwich. Do you know what a sandwich is? No. So she explained what a sandwich is and they were interested. Then maybe soup. In those days, we couldn’t get milk either. We could get powdered milk, but it didn’t taste very good when you mixed it up. This same little girl says, No rice and kimchi? And Sister said no. So they got to evening meal and I guess the children were really hoping she could get some rice and kimchi. So she explained what an evening meal would be. Mashed potatoes, some meat, and vegetables, and tea and coffee and, perhaps, some cake or fruit for dessert. And, you have the question, no rice and kimchi? And she said, no. And the little girl said, Oh, I never want to go to America! We told this to our cook and she laughed because she knew we were eating very well, but most of those little girls were eating that. �Gradually then, as we began to have Korean Sisters in the community, we wanted to be sure they were eating Korean meals, but they even agreed that it would be good to keep the breakfast a Western breakfast and most of them have no trouble with that at all. Occasionally, if a Sister isn’t well, she might want a porridge for breakfast that’s made of rice. Any of them that would feel the need, there is no problem with them having that. The trouble is, it’s easier to get our breakfast ready to get theirs. The cold. We heard early that it was cold. We did what the Koreans do. We put on more clothes. You put on, instead of one undershirt, you have a couple. One is thermal or something. It’s very warm. You put on two or three pairs of stockings. This makes trouble for the kind of shoes you wear, so you have some boots and some other things, but eventually, you get used to how to manage it. The house, we would have the kerosene stove. We would be warm enough when you were in a certain room. When you experienced this summer, we even have coal stoves in the rooms where we gather as a community. It’s not as convenient as central heating, but we manage. I think that we didn’t have as many colds as the Sisters back home would have. I don’t understand it exactly except that you get so used to it, you cope with it. If you were looking to see how do you keep warm enough and if somebody got a good idea. For instance, in ______, the Columban Sisters used to…they would heat bricks and put them in the bed. That’s what we did. We would have a regular brick and put a towel around it. It would be very hot. That would be still partially warm in the morning, but once you got to sleep, there was no problem. That, too. Anyone who found any way…when some of the Sisters were up in language school, somebody discovered if you had an electric blanket, it would solve a lot of your night problems. You wouldn’t need to bother with that brick, you know. So we began that. A number of the Sisters had that. If you left it on too long, your skin dried out, sort of. Some didn’t want that. It was easier to put on an extra blanket, an ordinary blanket or something, to keep warm. What else do you have besides food and cold? SMNK: Well you surprised me when you said electric blanket. I was under the impression that there was no electricity in Korea. SMAC: Oh, that’s always interesting. We had electricity, but you were never sure when you were going to get it. In Mokpo, we used to laugh. If we have visitors, the electricity goes off. It wasn’t consistent. I think some of the machines were sort of broken because the current coming in was not consistent, but we had electricity. One of the problems was, with the machines you had, like a tape recorder, record player, iron, and these things, it was when they broke, you couldn’t get them fixed. We had brought them from America and the local companies weren’t too busy making all of these things. Once they did, the Koreans can copy like anything. If they get hold of something, they can figure how it works and they can fix things. Now, it may not last too long, but they’ll get it working for you. In the house, we didn’t have too many plugs. Electric switches. We found out early on, whether you used them…you’d think it would be nice in a room to have two or three. SMNK: Oh, outlets. SMAC: Outlets. That’s it. You have to pay for everyone. A certain amount every month for every outlet you had. And the builders will tell you that, so when you are building, you know, you think, put one here. It would be nice because you have your desk here or you have one there or you want �to change your desk over to here. We ended up getting all kinds of extensions, so you didn’t have to pay for all of these. SMNK: And you still do that? SMAC: We still do, yeah. The water situation. When we came to Kangjin, there was a well on the property and then when the built the first part of the school, they dug a deeper well. We found out later that the people used to say, if the Sisters’ well runs dry, we are in trouble. It was apparently a very good well and we never had any problem with the water that time. The well was good. It produced a lot of water. When we built it, there was a tank above the staircase and the water supply was good. When we built the convent, that water was piped over to here still. SMNK: Could you drink the water? SMAC: We could but a Maryknoll Sister, Sister Augusta had said to us, she said the water is good. But well water is very good, but you don’t know about the pipes. They aren’t used to piping water so much and she said it may be there would be rust and other things in those pipes. She said, at least for your drinking, you should boil the water. Until we got our ultra pure now with that… [END OF TAPE 1-A] � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sister Mary Noel Kernan Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sister Mary Agnes Carey Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio cassette tape Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 96kHz Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Carey, Sister Mary Agnes Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Sister Mary Agnes Carey Description An account of the resource An oral history of Sister Mary Agnes Carey, a Sister of Charity of Seton Hill from 1934 until 1993. The interview was conducted by Sister Mary Noel Kernan on April 23, April 24, and May 5, 1987. Sister Mary Agnes Carey - religious name of Sister Thomas Aquinas - was born on January 18, 1916 and entered the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill in September of 1934. She received a bachelor's degree in Latin from Seton Hill College in 1940, a master's degree in Spanish from Middlebury College in 1956, and a doctorate from the University of Madrid in 1958. She was part of the first group of Sisters sent to Korea in 1960. Prior to that she taught at SS. Peter & Paul in Arizona and at St. Luke's in Carnegie. She was also part of the Spanish department at Seton Hill College. She was Principal of St. Joseph in Kang Tjin, Korea, from 1960-1971. Sister Mary Agnes died on October 12, 1993. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Archives of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1987-04-23 1987-04-24 1987-05-05 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource All rights belong to the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill, Greensburg, Pennsylvania. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio cassette tape Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OH-84 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Gwangju Kwangju-si (Chŏlla-namdo, Korea) 1916-1987 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/860b27f9dde58114933d58eea56ee9b8.jpg 232c1f3c84b90482b2e674d5545298eb https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/c20e7fb452c0ffbeaf7eed5489025030.mp3 a0ba874e349ea1d53be503426107bc21 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/8b081432ba509028dc4b55a90f994c4b.mp3 41d7ffe8286236078d3d82bbc3de5606 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/39382842de8ab479d2b354efcfdec40d.mp3 9f4d109d3fe518322c06098646191b40 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sister Marie Corona Miller Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sister Mary Janet Ryan Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio cassette tape Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 31:56 31:56 20:57 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 96kHz Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ryan, Sister Mary Janet Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Sister Mary Janet Ryan Description An account of the resource An oral history of Sister Mary Janet Ryan, a Sister of Charity of Seton Hill from 1935 until 2017. The interview was conducted by Sister Marie Corona Miller on May 11, 1988. Sister Mary Janet Ryan was born on May 31st, 1918 in Pittsburgh, Pa. Daughter of Alexader Ryan and Josephine Dalton, Jeannette Ryan entered the community on September 8th, 1935 at the age of 17 as Sister Mary Janet Ryan. Sister Mary Janet taught intermediate for 3 years, upper elementary for 15 years, secondary for 12 years, and college for 7 years. She was a History Professor at Seton Hill College from 1965 to 1979. She taught history in the summer sessions at SHC in 1953, 1955, 1956, 1958-1960, 1962, and 1975. She taught in Louisiana Schools as well as in the Pittsburgh Diocese. Sister Mary Janet received her B. Ed. in Secondary Education from Duquesne University in 1947. Then, in 1953, she received her M.L. in Geography from the University of Pittsburgh. Sister Mary Janet Ryan passed on September 15th, 2017 at the age of 99. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Archives of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1988/05/11 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource All rights belong to the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill, Greensburg, Pennsylvania. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio cassette tape Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OH-88 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/e976a825d0e9ddfc48c6e1987cbe429c.jpg 82dc7acda5480823fcce065bd5635542 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/fef430a1a97f2724f739b028a3bf03fa.mp3 c889980d1a5afef874daa1489466ae3f https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/c13ac725586c9573c5d37e38d8ffdb16.mp3 355e0c45caaa5286e79a1088b58fb646 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sister Sara Louise Reilly Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sister Dorothy Marie Quigley Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio cassette tape Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 31:32 31:33 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 96kHz Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Quigley, Sister Dorothy Marie Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Sister Dorothy Marie Quigley Description An account of the resource An oral history of Sister Dorothy Marie Quigley, a Sister of Charity of Seton Hill from 1941 until 1993. The interview was conducted by Sister Sara Louise Reilly on June 3 and 10, 1984. Sister Dorothy Marie Quigley was born on July 15th, 1912 in Erie, Pa. Daughter of William James Quigley and Florence Elizabeth Flanagan, Dorothy May Quigley entered the community on March 25th to May 18th, 1938. Then, she re-entered on September 8th, 1941 at the age of 29. Sister Dorothy Marie was an elementary teacher from 1944 to 1952 at Cathedral, Altoona. She went on to teach in the Home Economics Department at Seton Hill College in 1955. During the summer sessions of 1960-1964 and 1974, Sister Dorothy Marie taught Child Care in the Home Economics Department at Seton Hill College. She directed the Seton Hill Day Care, and by 1978 there were four federally centers and four state-funded centers. This was the first head start program in Westmoreland County; Seton Hill Day Care Incorporated. They received federal funding in 1966 to start the Seton Hill Day Care Inc., which was the country's first Head Start early-education program for children. Sister Dorothy Marie served as the Director of the program for 17 years and she supervised its expansion to include 12 day and home care centers throughout the city. Sister Dorothy Marie received her B.S. in Home Economics from Seton Hill College in 1954. Then, she went on to Cornell University to receive her M.S. in Home Management and Foods in 1960. In 1983, she coordinated the PACT - Pregnant Adolescent Child Care Training. Sister Dorothy Marie Quigley passed on September 7th, 1993 at the age of 81. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Archives of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1984/06/03 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource All rights belong to the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill, Greensburg, Pennsylvania. 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The interviewee is Sister. Francis Louise Honeychuck. The interview is being conducted by Sister. Marie Corona Miller at De Paul Institute. The date is July 15th, 1987. Sr. M: Good morning Sister Francis Louise Sr. F.L: Good morning, how are you today? Sr. M: I’m fine how are you. Sr. F.L: I’m fine thank you. Sr. M: All right sister I came here to today to talk to you about your life as a sister of charity all the many things you have done and the ministries you have been involved in. Would you like to begin with your date of birth? Sr. F.L: I was born in Mount pleasant October 23, 1914 I have one sister whose name is Helen she’s married she lives in Florida, clear water and um originally she lived in Greensburg and her children attended Cathedral school and she has 5 children and they are all married except one and um her oldest daughter lives in Westminster Colorado and her two daughters are attending Catholic university in Washington DC there first year in college first and second year in college they both have college scholarships very bright children and she has two other sons who are also very bright her next daughter her oldest boy is Regus who was a went to St. Vincent college for a scholarship and then he went to Pitt University and received his master degree in Chemical Engineering. And then later on he went on for his doctorate and now he worked at Westinghouse for many years and he moved to Lakeland because his wife had arthritis and she was recommended to go to a warmer climate. So they have 5 children also and the oldest daughter is ready for college this beginning of September. Jimmy is another son and he lives in Orlando and he also has his master’s degree in Engineering and the youngest boy is John he has a masters degree in Electrical Engineering. And I have a brotherFather Bob who was educated at St. Vincent’s college and he is the oldest in the family and he has gone been to Pittsburgh Diocese then it was split and then he went to Greensburg of course and he’s now retired and he lives at Polyment house. He’s my favorite brother of course and our brother Andrew lives in Cleveland and he has is married and has 5 children and they’re all married and I can’t begin to tell you all their relationships because it’s so many children ok and then Brother Johnny is my youngest one and he lives in Irwin and he was 5 children and they’re all married. �Sr. M: Which one is the nurse sister? Sr. F.L: And Larry whose the nurse and he lives in Mount Lebanon and he goes to our lady of Grace Parish and he has 2 children and they’re married. Ok that’s the extent of my family. My mother of course was a widow and she my father died in 1918 flu and so my mother had to work and she took in washings and all kinds of things in order to keep us together, and she was determined not to leave us go to any other families you know she kept us together and so we all survived under my mothers care and all grew up and I remember going into first grade and I attended St. Johns school and Sister Mary Eustice Mellon was my first teacher happy memories because I remember she asked us to say the sounds of the alphabet A “a” B “ba” C “ca” and I remember I use to do that at home when I was a little girl and I would look at the story books and she gave me a metal a beautiful little metal and she said you go to that other class because you remember all the sounds of the alphabet but the very first day I remember she went around saying what’s your name what is your name what is your name 60 children in a classroom you know we had 3 in a seat or 2 in a seat you know and she said what’s your name what’s your name what’s your name and after the 4th time I was tired of hearing say what’s your name I said I told you my name before and guess what I got a little crack. But anyhow I learned quickly to be quite you know. Sr.M: So what school was this? Sr. F.L: St. James, St. John the Baptist school in Scottdale. Ok now I remember some of the teachers we had after coming to 4th grade I had Sister Mary Martin Wit and in 5th grade Sister Perpetua Behe in 8th grade Sister Salome Kline and they were happy memories you know then I got into high school and then I had some wonderful teachers in high school I remember them very distinctly. Sr.M: And what High School is this? Sr. F.L: This is St. Johns St. Johns it was just the 3rd floor of the school and I had Sister Angelica Little, Sister Suzanne McIntire she taught me Spanish, Sister Joanna Gleeson was English, and Sister Bertha Shay and I remember her, very distinguished she talked in Latin and oh I love Latin and Sister Marie Anthony was my report teacher Sister Anthony and we had about 16 I guess 20 students in the class and a Sr.M: In the whole class? Sr. F.L: In in my class, in my class ok Sr. M: About how many were in the high school? Sr. F.L: About 90 maybe 100 all through and Sister Bertha was a favorite teacher of mine I liked her and Sister Marie Anthony of course taught the Geometry and the science general science classes. So I remained in high school until I was about till the �Junior year and it was then I was contemplating and I remember very distinctly I was eating I took my lunch to school and we Sister Marie Anthony was there watching the lunch hour they take turns, one day it was Sister Marie Anthony the next day it was Sister Suzanne they took something time. And we were eating our lunch one day and she said to me you know I dreamed about you last night and I said you did? Ya she said I dreamed you were a Sister of Charity and I said Oh I don’t know about that but I’ve been thinking about it, I’ve been thinking about it. And so then I began to pray a lot you know and think about what I would like to do I wasn’t quit sure but I just knew well I wanted to devote myself and I remember one day at home my brother Andy and I were playing a game and he said and you know you have to say what would you like to be would you like to be a sailor you like to be a nurse you like to be this and so a saint was there and I said I wanted to be a saint and he said no you be a saint I said yes I’m going to be a saint but anyhow I thought you know that I thought well I wanted to think about being my vocation. So I then after that I approached sister Marie Anthony and I said you know what I’m thinking about entering the community and she said I’m not surprised so Sister Germaine and Sister Richard Ann, Mother Richard Ann and Sister Mary Watson we were all thinking about it too so then not much was said except for ?? She said well where would you like to go and I said well guess I think you got to break the ice don’t all three go together she said that’s not good Sr. M: Were all of you in the same class? Sr. F.L: We were in the same class we were junior year and so she said I think you got to break the ice, so I said I think maybe March 25th would be nice so in the October before that I went to Seton Hill to petition and I can’t remember who I went with probably with Sister Germaine I’m not sure but Mother Eveline Fisher was the Mother general, so she said you’re from Scottdale and I said yes and she said when would you like to come? And I said well I think maybe March 25th and she said oh that nice she said we have quit a few but I think you’re the first one to apply for that date I think you’re probably the first one but she said threes a girl in college that’s thinking about coming and she didn’t tell me who that was, but later I found that was Sister Eugene O’Donnell, and so I went home and I told my mother that I wanted and she said you wanna go to the community don’t you wanna finish your high school and I said I think maybe I want to go now. So then I wrote a letter to Father Bob and he was at St. Vincent’s at the time and I wanted to get him opinion and he though well kind of young you know and so he did so then he wrote back and he said he didn’t know about that, but then he said yes you can by all means go he said you have my blessing or he said you know whatever I can’t remember what he said but he said ill pray that you enter the Catholic vocation and God be with you that was it. So then I remember we were getting ready, and Sister Marie Anthony said you need some clothes you need this you need that, Sister Joanne offered to make me a Kimona and I said well I already have one I already made one myself and she said oh you sew and I said yes. So then they had a party for me my class had a party so we went to Kate Sherman’s house and they presented me with a napkin ring so that I have a napkin ring for my napkin at you know on the table those days �you had your own napkin ring ok. So that’s what they gave me as a gift, we had nice evening had a nice party and I remember boys wanted to dance with me and I said ok it’s the last time we’ll dance so we danced and we had some music and so on and I came home and Larry brought me home cuz he was invited to the party and so March came and I kept thinking you know oh gosh it was midnight we got worried that I shouldn’t go until Easter Sunday because, March 25th in that year fell on Good Friday so they said do you think we should come on Good Friday wait till Easter Sunday. So Easter Sunday came and everything was bright and beautiful of course they had Easter candy all around and the bishop baskets you name it everything to make it look inviting. So I remember going up to the clothes room and the sister in charge was Sister Agnes Francina and she had a black dress for me and little black lace cap to put on my head and she said here I think this will fit you so we put it on and I said well ill go down to the parlor and see how everybody likes me so I went down to the parlor and Sister Marie Anthony was there and Sister Germaine and Mother Richard Ann Sr. M: They all went with you? Sr. F.L: They all went with me yes Sr.M: How did you all go? Sr.F.L: Sister Germaine’s father drove the car ok, my mother didn’t go she said goodbye to me at home and so they took me and so I went down and remember said how do you like me? They said well you look kinda nice, and name? looked at me and she said she kept thinking you know I guess I’ll be next you know because she was contemplating being in a spot in September and so we stayed for a little while and Sister Theodosia came down and took me up to the Bishop Sr. M: And she was the mistress? Sr. F.L: She was the mistress, she was the first mistress back then, we were the first novices ok her first novices. So I went up to the Bishop and I met Sister Jean Francis Peters, and she just got the white cap, and Sister Agatha, Sister Alice Marie and Theresa Martin and Margery and Anne Matthia and all that whole gang there was a whole good many. Sr.M: What Sister Margery was that? Sr. F.L: Sister Margery, she’s the one that just died from cancer a couple years ago. And so we went I went to the chapel and Sister Marie Anthony took me to the chapel after their incident, and she took me all the way up to the front pew on the Saint Josephs sides I remember distinctly, and she said now you’re here and you tell God you’re here to stay that’s what she said to me, you tell God you’re here to stay. And so I prayed for a while and she took me out and we went down to the parlor for a little while and we said goodbye to everybody and that was the end of that. Sister �Marie Anthony’s visit, and so they all went home and said goodbye. So then I went up to the Bishop and I didn’t know what to expect you know it was all such a big thing to me. Sr.M: Now where was the Bishop Sister? Sr.F.L: The Bishop is where the Sister’s community room is now. Ok, and the senior division used that room across the hall you know they had a piano in there and so that whole floor was really the Bishop floor. We use to go to the oratory you know right across from them. Ok I was taken up to the fifth floor and shown where my bed room was suppose to be, it was really a dormitory with curtains all the way around it. Sr.M: Now this is the administration building. Sr. F.L.: Administration building, and Sister Rose Irene Boggs was in charge up there and she was the senior in that room. Sister Clara Marie McManama was in that room and Sister Rose Irene, and she showed me where the washrooms were, and told me when to get up early in the morning five o’clock in the morning, and I thought oh dear and morning prayers etc. So while I was a postulant I remained in that area. And I remember distinctly after about a month’s time I got very very homesick Sr.M: Now were you the only postulant? Sr. F.L.: In that room Sr.M: Well I mean though in the group Sr. F.L.: Oh no oh no, I should tell you that five entered Sr.M: On that same day? Sr. F.L.: On that same day, and they wore, they were Mary Greeley from Johnstown and Sister Jean Seton she got the name from when she became a white cap, and I can’t remember her Baptismal name. Sister Ruthann Kronenberger, and Sister Eugene O’Donnell and myself. And Mary Ann Greely only stayed about two weeks, she got very homesick and decided she wanted to go home. Sister Jean Seton was in the community only six months, she got the white cap and decided she wanted to go home, but we didn’t know she was going it was all on the secret we just missed her and then sister asked if she was gone. So that left the three of us, Sister Ruthann, Sister Eugene, and myself. Now Sister Ruthann was missioned out west in various places, Scottdale and so on and she was a really wonderful companion, so was Sister Eugene. I remember being in class with Sister Ruthann we were studying American History and also Children’s Literature in summer school at Seton Hill. Sr. M: Who taught those classes? �Sr.F.L: Oh I can’t remember who they are. Sister Mary Ann Joseph was the Literature teacher and oh she was so exciting and wonderful, I just loved everything. Sister Mary Fidelis taught the American History. Well, I had so much work to do I had an awful lot of reading, Sister Mary Ann Joseph had all kinds of things that we had to read about which was very fascinating to me which I, and Sister Mary Fidelis had all kinds of assignments and I had to do an awful lot of reading and I have spent most of the time with history, because I had a test every week and I also had a test every week in the Literature. So we would go out on the swing, out in the yard and Sister Ruthann would say to me now Francine did you read this story and I said no I couldn’t have time I was doing history I was doing history I said I had to make this book report for history and I said I had to go to the library and think what I was gonna do for history make a pickery board. So I though I’ll go to the I’ll read this certain book, because I know the name, it was Ulysses Grant I knew something about him, I thought this is something easy I have to pick something easy because I don’t have time, I had so much preparation to do. It was just so much the assignments were so heavy. So sister Ruthann would say to me remember Moby Dick goes with this, and so and so goes with that remember this, so she would the night before the tests, she would tell me all these different things about this literature. Sr. M: Were you in the same class? Sr. F.L: The same class, and I said well I recall this and I recall this and I recall this, but I don’t have time to be studying this. So we took the test and low and behold we passed both of us but I thought oh how could I ever go through a summer like this again, I will never take two heavy classes again because each of those classes required so much reading and so much preparation. In fact it was so hard on me that I didn’t even go to recreation would you believe it. I couldn’t take time, and the sisters in the dormitory said Francis Louise you gonna come out and play basketball, you gonna come out and lets go swimming, lets go here, lets go and I said I can’t I have to study this I have to do this, I have to do this work for tomorrow I had no recreation it was awful. Sr. M: What about a charge, were you given a charge? Sr. F.L: Oh I had a charge; I had a big charge too Sr.M: Whatcha get? Sr. F.L: Well I can’t remember I think I had something over in the bathroom in Cannevan I had to do a bathroom in Cannevan that was an everyday requirement you know because you had to supply the needs you know that was required, and besides I’d mop it up once a week, but outside of that you know I was kept very busy it was a very busy summer. Ask me the question. �Sr.M: How long were you a postulant? Sr. F.L: I was a postuland for three months. And then I got the white cap, and I remember going to the oratory and the priest who was in charge of Seton Hill I can’t remember his name he was a chaplain well he blessed the well I guess it was a retreat master a retreat master. Sr.M: Now what year was this? Sr. F.L.: This was 1934 ok, so after we made may day retreat and I remember going to the chapel everyday and the place was packed with Sisters the whole chapels filled with Sisters everyday, they even had chairs on the side to accommodate you know people the Sisters who made the retreat. And I remember going to the chapel everyday and praying and then going to the retreat and we had our retreat exercises in Cecilian Hall, and the best part about that retreat was to go to bed in the afternoon and sleep. I tell ya because we get up at five o’clock every morning and I was always exhausted and I slept, did I sleep, and then I’d carry some my stocking to darn and downstairs I’d mend my stockings while the person was doing the reading and it was usually a profess Sister and I think it was Sister Ann Mckale Orielley who was doing the reading, and she had a beautiful powerful voice and she read for twenty minutes and after twenty minutes we’d disappear and so do our where we had to go and then we’d have a four o’clock conference and then early to bed in the evening which I welcomed; and that was a really restful time for me because it was something that I really thought I needed. Sr. M: And this was in preparation for your receiving the habit. Sr. F.L: Yes, so then the morning, the night before the novices were received, they announced the names of the candidates who were going to receive their habit, so the Sister up in the balcony in the Chapel after the prayers were over everybody hold their ears open you know listening who these names were gonna who the candidates were gonna be so they named them, and they said Emma Honeychuck would be named Sister Francis Louise; and I remember hearing that and I was delighted and Sister Ruthann of course got her name Sister Eugene. Sr.M: Now where did you tell me about the name Francis? Sr. F.L: Well I asked for the when I went to petition mother said to me would you have you would you like think of a name and I said well I’d like to have some form of Francis or some form of Louise, and she said oh I see, well she said we’ll think about it. Sr.M: Now why was that? Sr. F.L: That was probably maybe a month before I received the habit. �Sr. M: And why why did you want Francis and Louise? Sr. F.L: Well I know that Louise was connected with Vincent De Paul Sr. M: I see Sr. F.L: And I knew that and I petitioned on October 4th at least to Saint Francis, Francis of Assisi. So and I was surprised that I got those two names and I was happy. And so I remember the morning that I received the habit you know then we had a big celebration and you know and a Sr. M: With all the retreat Sisters? Sr. F.L: All the retreat Sisters and then of course you know we looked different in our white caps it was so tight you know with the bows tied and all that and I remember during the mission days I learned how to tie the white bows and then all be placed there and I tied the bows, and even when I got to De Paul Sister John Agnes McClory and Sister and all the Sisters here you know would said Fancis will you tie my bows will you tie my bows, even the black bows so I learned that quickly you know and that was kinda fascinating to me it was one of the old things I use to do. Sr. M: Who made your Habit? Sr. F.L: Well, Sister Agnes Francina had a Habit. Sr. M: What was her family name? Sr. F.L: I can’t remember her family name, but anyhow she well no we all went to class. We had to do some sewing we had to make our own white sleeves and of course I knew how to sew because I used to do a lot of sewing when I was little, and so we you know all got together and did that, so I remember making the white sleeves, and she would put our names on it and I remember we made our own collars, and white caps, and she taught us how to do that, and she helped us to make our Habits, so we had one good Habit for Sunday and one handy down for somebody else. Yes for your everyday Habit So we Sr. M: And what color were the Habit’s in those days? Sr. F.L: Oh they were black of course they were black, and some were flannel the everyday Habit was a flannel Habit it was made of flannel material and the other was like a Panama which is a bit of quality it was a nicer, and so I used to remember that I learned quickly how to make the Habits because when I went to WestEnd I helped Sister, different Sisters to help fix their Habits I leaned by fixing, I’d rip an old Habit to see how it was done and how the pleats were fixed you had four pleats across the bodice and how they were turned, and I remember fixing a Habit one time for Sister Marie Faycott the pleats were in backwards so I had to I had to rip it �and I said I knew where the mistake was. So then after that I began doing a lot of sewing mending Habits and making Habits you know petti coats and all that kinda of stitching. Sr. M: Ok now that time when you received the Habit, is that when Mother Richard Ann entered in the following September? Sr. F.L: Following September Sr.M: In 1934 Sr. F.L: Ya, no yes 1934 no wait a minute no she entered I entered in 32 1932 and she came the September of 1932, see I came in March and she came the following September and I remember when she entered, she had long black hair and she Sr.M: So Sister Germaine had not come yet? Sr. F.L: No, she came the following September, she had graduated school. So then we started to you know take some classes in preparation for teaching and you know methods of different methods of you know you had to learn for preparation for classroom work. So I remember going over to the college and learning at night and completed my high school year. You know so then one day Annalise came to me one day and she said do you know you haven’t finished your science you need a credit in science, and she said Dr. Car will be teaching science this summer and there’s one young lady from Greensburg who was interest in taking this, and she’s paying for the course and she said there would just be two people in the class, would consider taking the science course with her, that’s college credit, and she said if you take this we would give you a credit for your high school as well, so I said I’ll try it. So we met Dr. Car and I remember Sister Marie Anthony Lavin was also teaching Chemistry, and she was teaching on the other side of the table, and she was doing experimentations with some Chemistry, and she would see us everyday, but she wasn’t aloud to talk to use cause we were I was a novice and you weren’t aloud to talk to novices to Profess Sisters even though she was my mother in religion. And so we got through the course and I passed it and I was very happy. So then when I went to Duquesne University to work for my degree, I learned that when they transferred my credits from Seton Hill that I had accreditation in college Chemistry and I wouldn’t have to take any science at Seton Hill, so I also got my high school and college for the one course because it was college credit. And that was all due to Sister De Chantal Leis, which I was very happy. Well then in the mean time I earned up a lot of credits for college, but I still wasn’t finished high school and I didn’t finish high school until I came to De Paul Institute. And I remember taking pre professional examinations and Sister Theresa Vincent Mahoney said to me you mean you’re gonna study this you going to study this you’re going to do this by yourself, and I said we have about a year to teach you this, and I said well if you just give me some regions books so I went to Sister Emanuel Manny, and she gave me some regions books, and she said what do you want, and I said well I want Economic �Geography and another aspect of Geography and so I studied these regions books, and I would read on that, and go to the library and get some reference material and then I would study these answers and so on. So I took the test, and I passed the test and they were the only two that I needed so then I got my certification though the state of Pennsylvania and finished my pre professional examinations and I got my certificate. Well then from then on I was able to go on to my college work, get the rest of it ok. I don’t know what I wanna say with the mission. Sr. M: Sister do you wanna talk a little bit about your novitiate days? Sr. F.L: Yes, um I’d like to say that the good number of Sisters entered with us there was a good crowd of Sisters there, I remember Sister Ligouri Steinmiller, Sister Theresa Martin Henry, Sister Ann Agnes, Kilkeary, Sister Rose Irene Boggs,, Sister Alice MarieCrates, Sister Caroline Joseph Wilson, Sister Helen Hart, Sister Jean Francis Peters, Sister Sara Marie O’hara, Sister Agatha Procter, Sister Clara Marie McManama Sister Helen Mary Laferty, Sister Mary Mildred Curry, and Sister Marie George Abbott. One particular day I remember that when I was very homesick Sister Alice Marie, and Sister Caroline Joseph took me out to the barn and they said all kinds of silly things about the cows and the chickens and the everything connected with the farm and they got me laughing, got me out of my homesickness which I was very grateful. Sr.M: Sister can you remember any other incidents during your novitiate days? Sr. F.L: Oh yes, I think I can remember another incident, I recall that you know we always had to wash the dishes after the meal was over, in the Sisters dining room and after serving and passing the pans and reading up and Sister Ligouri Steinmiller was at the sink at the time, and she was splashing around making a lot of soap suds and it was going everywhere and somebody got splashed and I said oh splash back and just then that Sister and I said Saint Theresa did and just at that moment SisterTheodosia walks in and she said Saint Theresa I never heard that, everybody laughed. Sr.M: Did you serve in the dining room? Sr. F.L: Oh yes we all had to serve we had to take turns carrying pans and serving the meals and we carried it on trays always the hot food was prepared in the kitchen and carried the serving dishes on the trays and carried them into the dining room and put them on carts and same with the dish pans the soap and the water and the mops and towels and all that. And after the meal several of us had to take care of the towels take them down and wash them out and then hang them down in the tunnel downstairs to dry for the next morning and the next day we’d collect them and some Sisters worked in the butter house they had to cut the butter and get prepared for the morning meal it would be breakfast. Other people had to get the pans ready count them all out get the coffee pots ready I remember two of our Sisters were �appointed to make coffee every morning, they’d go down to the kitchen and use the big urn you know and oh Sister Mary Terrence she’s the one that did that. One time. Sr.M: ? Sr.F.L: Sister Mary Terrence she was in our division too she’s long she’s dead Sr.M: What’s’ her family name Sister? Sr.F.L: Um Sister Mary Terrence Clancy. And I think Sister Clara Marie McManama went down with her they had to go early in the morning before the morning prayers that was around 5 you know, and so they had to make the coffee every morning, and by the time Sister Mary Terrence was laughing she said well I hope the coffee’s not too strong because I put too much in it I’m half asleep and I don’t even know what I’m doin. We all laughed about that. So everybody had chores to do you know for the breakfast and the lunch. We were responsible for a lot of things and we also had to take turns saying prayers nigh prayers morning prayers reading, and I just never had a turn for the morning prayers, I said the quarter prayers you know before the lunch but I didn’t have a turn for that the reading. So when I got on mission I Sister Theodosia said she remembered that I didn’t have a turn and she wondered how I was doing and Sister Levonnation said oh she’s doing ok she was my Sister servant. Sr.M: Sister what do you recall about the senior Sisters in the dining room, like you weren’t aloud to talk to them, but do you recall anything about the senior Sisters that you could remember? Sr.F.L: Hmm well I can’t remember Sr.M: How many tables were in the dining room when you were serving Sr.F.L: Oh I would say about maybe 8 on each side you know maybe 16 tables at least, well maybe not that many I guess yes I guess there were there were long tables and you had 8, 10 people at a table you know, we had white table cloths on all the time and we would take we every Wednesday we change the table we turned the table cloths over the dirty side went under the clean side went on top in those days why you then on Saturday you would clean them for the next week for the following week and we all had napkins and napkin rings and all that was in this place, and the dishes were in place, the silverware was there and the plates were turned upsidedown and the silverware was there, and you had to make sure that the sugar bowels were attended to have sugar and salt, pepper those kinds of things. And that was just the ordinary run of things. Sr.M: Now what about your charge on the steps you had an amusing story about the steps. �Sr.F.L: Oh that happened, when I was I guess I was a white cap then, and I remember well we all had extra things to do that day because some Sisters went on retreat or I can’t remember the incident but we all had extra work to do, and so Sister Feodosha appointed Sister Mary Celest Casalina and myself to do the stairways in the in the landing you know the chapel chapel landing and the floor near Cecilian Hall and then the one below that near the dining room was and I said to her you take one side and ill take the other side and we’ll meet you know downstairs, so we started work we had our mops and we had our dusters and we had to dust all the curlicues you know in those days we had banisters that were very ornate and they had a lot of you know things to put your finger through in order to get your finger all to get the dust off and with your cloth, and so we started and we worked for a while and about 15 minutes she came over to me oh Sister I think this is too hard, this is too much work and she said I think I ought to ask somebody for some help, and I said oh come on you do your side and I’ll do my side and we’ll get finished don’t worry about it. So we went back to work and about 20 minutes later she says did you find, did you go to Sister Feodosha and ask her if we could have some help, this is just too much can’t you can’t you you’re the senior you should go now you’re the senior you go ask Sister to get some help because I think this is too much. So I said no I’m not gonna go I said no we’ll get finished don’t worry about it. Well now are you gonna go or aren’t you gonna go, and I said no I don’t think I’m gonna go, well why not why not and I said well I’m not goin because I don’t think we have to go we don’t need any help. So we went back to work, and next thing you know she came back again did you find some help I think you ought a go. So I finally went to Sister Theodosia after much deliberation I went, so I explained what happened and she said well you tell Sister Celest that I want to see her. So Sister Celest began apologizing immediately she said Sister it’s my fault it’s my fault I urged Sister to talk to you and get help, she says it was my fault and I knew I shouldn’t have done that but I knew it was my fault. So anyhow that was the end of that. Sr.M: So did you get the steps done? Sr.F.L: Ya we got them done, sure we did we went back to work and they just sure we did. Sr.M: Did you have anything to do with the animals in the barn? Sr.F.L: No, oh no oh no no no no Sister’s didn’t do anything like that the men take care of that. Sr. M: Alright Sister then you went out on your fist mission Sr.F.L: Yes Sr.M: Ok, now where was that? �Sr.F.L: Ya now the first mission well first I would tell you that yes I went to Westend, and I was assigned to take third grade and the former teacher had that and she was told or asked to take fourth grade so I could have the third grade because I have never taught before. It was my first experience at teaching and Sister Generosa was in charge of the teachers in training at that time for the community. She was a supervisor you know. So she came around periodically and she had visits with all of us, and so I remember going into third grade, I had about sixty children in third grade. Sister Anastesia Mellon was in the second grade, Sister Ann Seton Boyle was in the first grade and between the two of them they really gave me a lot of help, especially Sister Ann Seton, and I spent a lot of time observing Sister Ann Seton when she was preparing her vocabulary work for first grade all the I was asking her many questions well how do you do this, and why are you doing this and she’d tell me this is the vocabulary for tomorrow and then she’d have printing on the board she’d have all kinds of art work ready for the children so that they would be have something to do while she was teaching on group and or another class another group, and a Sister Anastesia Mellon had second grade she had over sixty children in there she was kind of on the stern people you know everything was did at task, and Sister Ann Seton was well more innovative I would say because she was younger, and so I learned a good bit from both of them and I had to do all the studying on my own to try to prepare things so things went pretty well. And then the following year I was appointed to have fifth and sixth grade and I was kind of un eerie about that because it was going to be my first year of fifth and sixth level. It was a double grade and I think we had fourth children in that room. Sister Erma Sullivan was sixth grade opposite of me we were down stairs in the basement of the school, and it was during that year, it was 1936 that the Pittsburgh you know the Saint Patrick’s day flood occurred the famous Saint Patrick’s day flood oh I’ll tell you that was some experience. I remember, we went to bed at night well into the evening because Mother Egnasha was a little bit you know upset, not exactly upset but she was I can’t think of the word Sr.M: Concerned? Sr.F.L: Concerned, she was concerned because the water was rising and there was a creek behind the convent and she could see that water rising, and she was concerned about the blessed sacrament being on the first floor where the chapel was. So we all went to bed and she didn’t say anything but it was late when we get up in the morning there was no bell ring and I said what’s the matter no bell look how high it is, and we looked out the window and here this water was way up high above the it was even with the convent porch which was high it was the old convent, and the fence across the street which was next to the Thady Seton School was covered with water the picket fence six feet high and it was covered with water. Every place you look and there was a woman across the street yelling and she says help help help from the second floor trying to get out, So first thing we did well I got dressed and so did we and we opened the cellar door and here was the water just about at the doorstep and we could see the cans up in the air floating tomato’s, beans, all these cans were coming out of the cupboards floating on top of the water �ok, it was terrible. So we had to get out and the next thing I know a policemen came with three or four policemen in a boat, so we all got out and got into the boat and we went into the boat into a canoe all the way up to Stuben street if you can picture that that’s pretty high up we got out and went on Stuben street and we walked to the Devine Provence convent and they welcomed us somebody telephoned and said we were coming guessing Mother Ignatia did that or somebody and so they gave us breakfast and I remember specifically they gave us coffee and doughnuts and some cereal and some fruit they had apricots or what you know ready for us. Sr.M: Were they not flooded? Sr.F.L: They were not flooded because they were on a higher level ok so Sr.M: Do you remember the name of that convent Sister? Sr.F.L: Saint Martin’s, Saint Martin’s convent. Ok so it was there that Mother Ignatia had telephoned Mother Eveline finding out where we could go for the day. So we had to wait for about a half hour until everything was processed through and so they said well Hazelwood Saint Steven’s Hazelwood can accommodate five Sisters they don’t have heat, but they’ll take you ok there’s no heat in the convent but they’ll take you. So they decided to send Sister Veronica Scott, Sister Paula Moran, Sister Olivia Hamilton, Sister Ann Seton Boyle, and myself and they called us to find dionanies. And so we went to Hazelwood and Sr.M: In a boat? Sr.F.L: No, we went on a train and we got on the train and we went all across the city and you could see the water everywhere when we passed J & L steel building everything was flooded cars were covered and everything, it was terrible. So we finally got to Hazelwood going into the cold convent and Sister Mary Ann MacAfee was there and she was teaching there and some of the other sister, but I remember her because she was stationed her later at De Paul Institute. So it was the year after that that she came here. But so they accommodate us they serve us breakfast and everything and they had three tables in the dining room the place was cold but at least we had a bed to sleep in we were away from the water and we got our scripture reading there are our prayers and we served our meals and everything, so we were there for about a week, and then a telephone call came and said Mother Evalan called and said I would like Sister Ann Seton and Sister Francis Louise to go to Oakmont Saint… Sr.M: Now did they still carry on their school? Sr.F.L: Oh yes Sr.M: They had no problem with the flood? �Sr.F.L: No, they carried on their school. Ok, and they didn’t have everybody because everybody wasn’t able to get there but they took care of the ones who came. Ok so then we went to Saint Irenaeau and Sister Ann Seton was told to do the CCD work after school and I was to do to take fifth and sixth grade because Sister Mary Albert Short was ill I believe she had scarlet fever and she would be away for at least three weeks. And they thought of me because I had fifth and sixth grade before at Westend. So when I got there, I didn’t have any problem and I thought oh gee this is nice this is small class in compared to Westend, and there’s no flood no water and I’m on in the safe land and its warm and it’s cozy and oh it’s nice and it was homey they only had about six Sisters on mission there Sr.M: What was the name of that convent? Sr.F.L: Saint Ireneaus where Sister Mary Anna Mcsherry was the principal and also the Sister servant. And so we slept upstairs and everyday I went to school and everyday Sister Mary Anna would peep in the window to see how things was going in the classroom. So after about three days, she said to me I can’t believe it she said she says this is the wildest class in the school and she says you have control over these kids she said I wish I could keep you and I said oh I have to go back to Westend when they’re ready for me I’ll have to go back there I said it’s not up to me to stay I said you know, so I just smiled and didn’t say anything and I know they seemed to be out of hand at first but I was very commanding in the very beginning because they warned me that it was a hard class but I Sr.M: How many children did you have? Sr.F.L: There must have been about forty not as big of class as I had. But anyhow, I found they to be very very nice. So after the week was over, after the week was over I went back to Westend but, we were not aloud to go down to the basement where my school classroom was we had to make they had to make changes no body was to use that room that place downstairs for children for the rest of the year. They had libe all over the place the board of health came around said no it has to dry completely and they had to make sure that there’s no bacteria no germs you know debree anything that might be contagious for the children. So we didn’t go down there and so we had to use the high school they emptied the library and the high school classes had to go in the library conduct some of their classes there and they vacated one whole room for Sister Erma and myself so we had she had sixth grade and I had fifth and sixth grade so we put the two classes together and that was over past sixth kids. So we worked it out that we’d you know go hand in hand we couldn’t have two teachers in the room but she took part of the time then I taught part of the time and so things went, we had to keep a record of everything and she was wonderful with me she said be sure you have everybody whose absent down and it’s a good thing I did because you know we had some wintery days and one boy whose name was David Lennon was in an accident after school he was sled riding and he accidently bumped into a truck or the truck bumped into him and of course the parents were wanted to have a lawsuit. So the next thing I knew some gentlemen �stepped into my classroom and said hand me this note and said you’re ?? to court I couldn’t believe it and so then he explained this is all about David Lennon’s people wanting me to testify and so I went to Sister Erma immediately and she said oh Sister she said this is serious you’ll have to go, so then we told Sister Margret and Sister Margret said oh no you’re not going you not gonna go you’re not goin and Sister Erma said oh Sister we have to go we have to go or you’ll pay five hundred dollars. So we went Sr.M: Both of you went? Sr.F.L: We both went because we both handled him. So all I had to do of course was to take my register with me and testify the days they were absent and I had to say whether there was any preshable difference in his leaning you know capacity was he injured in any way that his leaning ability was you know demurred and of course I had to say that I didn’t see any difference in the child and so they won the case the family won the case, but I was very much unnerved because it was my first experience and I was a young Sister and I didn’t you know know what to expect. So it was hard on me but Sister Erma was very nice about it she went to the court with me I wouldn’t have gone alone you know which was nice. In those days we always went in two’s you never went by yourself you know you always went with a companion down the street or anywhere we just never went alone. Sr.M: Sister when the five of you went to Saint Eranas or Saint Steven’s where did the other Sisters from your house go? Sr.F.L: Well some of them went to Sacred Heart and some went different places ya I can’t remember just where they all went but Sr.M: And then you all came back together within a week Sr.F.L: Yes we did, yes we did. Then the following year Sr.M: What about um Sr.F.L: The following year we when the then there was a rumor that a flood was going to come back again you know the river was going to rise again but and it did rise to some extent but not like the Saint Patrick’s day flood. So father we had mass in the morning and Father Sheetie came over he’s the assistant pastor Father Gilman was the pastor at the time, but he was the assistant pastor and he said the rumor’s comin up you better get out and so we all decided to go somewhere while Sister Marie Ann to Sister Margret was in charge then and she said Sr.M: This is the second year? Sr.F.L: The year after 1938 ok no 1937 because the flood was 1936, 1937 it was the spring season and I can’t remember if it was in March or April but anyhow it was �probably March. So they said they had room for three at De Paul Institute, so Sister Olivia and Sister Ann Seton and myself went to De Paul ok and the others went to different places some people went to Carnegie and some other people went I can’t remember all the missions they were, but anyhow we left. And some people went to Seton Hill I think, and so when I came to De Paul it was my first experience with deaf children I really didn’t know anything about De Paul institute I had heard of it but I didn’t know what it was like or what to expect. So I remember observing the classroom during the day while the children were in session Sister Elizabeth Ann Mahonie at the time was a teacher over in the primary school and I remember seeing her and observing, and Sister Olivia and Sister Ann Seton came along and we just sat and observed. The children were having reading and speech and ? training and matching pictures and everything. And I distinctly I saw a Sally lou Sister, she was just a little girl, she’s one of our teacher aids now you know and when she grew up she went to Sacred Heart high school and then she went to Mercy college but she didn’t finish, so then she came here and got a job and she was home economics teacher for a while now she’s a teacher aid working with Mr. Hope. But anyhow I was astounded at what the children could do you know I was very interested I couldn’t believe that they were doing and not hearing what the teacher was saying. So I said to Sister Elizabeth Ann would you not talk loud so she said alright ill talk without voice, so she did and she was saying the very same things that she said before but using no voice and the children were doing carrying on everything and that’s when I was convinced that they were really you know lip reading and I though isn’t that amazing I just couldn’t believe that. So I tried to talk to some of the children but I found it difficult to understand some of them because I wasn’t use to them but so after that then of course we were here for a couple days and then we went back to Westend and resumed our teaching you know everything was normal by that time but in the following June or I guess it was June, August when the mission list was read we all went to the Cecilian Hall and Mother Marie Benedict Monahaign was the Mother at the time and she read out the names of the Sisters for the various missions and you would have to listen very closely for your name you know as the mission was read so I was listening and listening and after it was all over I didn’t hear my name and I thought why I wonder where I’m going so after I started to go out to the end of the hall and I met Sister Margret and she said dearie where you going on mission and I said I don’t know I said I didn’t hear my name She said lets go to Mother and find out. Sr.M: Now this is Sister Margret Sr.F.L: Sister Margret McMan she was my Sister servant ok at Westend, so we went to the hall and Mother was talking with some Sister about Mother said you go to your mission go to your mission she said and you try it and if you if you contact me later that’s all I heard. So then Sister Margret says Mother where is this Sister going on mission and Mother looked at me and said oh she’s going to one of the Institutions and I thought well I’m not a nurse I can’t go to the hospital you know or maybe I’m going into and I going to send me to training or what so then I said you mean De Paul Mother and she said yes De Paul she said I want you come here she �said now look she said I want you to try it for a year and see how you like it she says now that’s not for everybody and I know and she said everybody wouldn’t like that type of work but she said you try it and then next June she says you come back to me and you tell me, well I tried it for a year and I was thinking I was going to Seton Hill at the end of June like we always do all the novices went to Seton Hill you know course I was profess then I was a profess Sister and I expected to go to Seton Hill like everybody else and take classes and do all the things everybody else does get a charge out there and have recreation with everybody and do everything that you do in the summer time well, first thing I know Sister Regatta Fitzpatrick and myself were sent to Wane State University, teacher in training for the deaf so I never got Sr.M: Sister can I back up a little bit Sr.F.L: Yep Sr.M: into an incident that happened in the dining room you had said to me something about Sister Marie Antonio Mclenen was in the dining room eating with Mother Sr.F.L: Oh ya Sr.M: Was it mother Benedict Sr.F.L: It was Mother Marie Benedict yes Sr.M: and you were serving Sr.F.L Yes I was serving the dining room and I just heard a conversation saying oh that’s the one she’s the one I knew they were pointing to me but I didn’t know what the conversation was Sr.M: So this preceded your assignment Sr.F.L This preceded my assignment so I presumed that that’s probably what they were thinking about you know sending me there. Well I just don’t know whether that’s just ya Sr.M: Now who was the superior in the… Sr.F.L: Well then when I came to De Paul well then when I came to De Paul Sister Marie Antonio Mclenen was here she was the Sister servant and Sister Theresa Vincent Mahoney was the she was the Sr.M: Now what year was that? �Sr.F.L: Was the principal, that was 1937 September 1937. So this is 1987 so guess what it will be fifty years in September. Well I had four years at Westend teaching and then I had forty nine years at De Paul in the classroom and so you add it up at it’s fifty three years in the classroom and while I was at De Paul I had many experiences many happy memories and I’ve learned a lot of things about the deaf and the children and from the very start I was you know asked to do teacher training and I there had been many many girls who have been here and one I cherish the most was Marlene Falco, she came from Connellsville and at that time they took the girls here and they resided in the school they slept here at the school and then they went on to Duquesne university for their education so they helped to teach during the day got their teacher training experience with the children with the with the model teacher supervising teacher and then they went to classes at night or after school you know at Duquesne and got their college credits that way. And so then after a certain number of years they were accredited to be able to go anywhere to teach you know they had got their certification from the state of Pennsylvania and so it was hard laborious work for them, but it was good for us too because we had somebody to rely on and they did a lot of things that we weren’t able to do because we had study hours and we had you know dining room you know duty we had to take care of the children while they ate their meals and there’s many activities, boy scouts, cubs you know brownies, and I had charge of the playmates Sr.M: And what were the playmates? Sr.F.L: They were a little group of children pre brownie group and we had Saint Agnes as out patron and I remember distinctly making the beanies they were made pink not flannel but pink felt and we make the beanies and then we had a lamb white lamb insignia to designate the patroness of Saint Agnes while was their patroness of the their playmate club and we had a playmate flag and it was pink and we had a big lamb on that also and periodically we had entertainment for the children and games and all kinds of activities for them plus health rules and citizenship rules all those kinds of things are necessary for little children and we dramatized the story of Saint Agnes and the children did that themselves one would be the Saint Agnes somebody would be the soldiers ect. So we use to use the stage in the what we use to call the boys hall and because we didn’t have Lady Victory hall then it wasn’t built yet. So we would invite the school and the children would participate from then on and I remember distinctly Mother Evan Fisher was living here at the time and when her birthday came around which was always around the feast of Saint Agnes she always wanted to see this play so we would put it on for her and Sr.M: How old were the children? Sr.F.L: They were six, seven, eight-year-old children they were growing really very active Sr.M: Now they would in those days those were the young children �Sr.F.L: They were oh yes oh yes they were maybe younger than that. Our six years olds were called we called them the babies you know because they were just beginners and so well I have been working with the deaf children almost all the time I’ve been here except period in 1949 I distinctly remember that I was asked to learn the brail and so I was sent to Colombia University with Sister Justine for summer course and Ms. Madeline Lumis was the author of the text book and the teacher and so when I first arrived there I was the only people that applied for this brail course and so the sue provider said well I don’t think we can really you know ask you to take this course you’re the old pupil we couldn’t pay the teacher you know just for one pupil that’s not customary we usually have ten fifteen people in a class and he says where you from and I said Pittsburgh, what part? De Paul Institute oh De Paul Institute well that’s where Sister Theresa Vincent Mahoney’s from I said yes well you’re gonna stay and we’re going to provide a teacher for you because I visited your school and I remember that Sister and I will do that for you, so in the mean time this person Ms. Madeline Lewis was sick they thought she had appendix she really was having cancer but they didn’t know it they thought it was appendix so she had this operation and I had a substitute teacher and I had a hard time with her because I she I knew that she wasn’t as equipped as I expected her to be and the thing is… Sr.M: This is a continuation of an interview being conducted as part of the oral history program of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill. The interviewee is Sister. Francis Louise Honeychuck the interview is being conducted by Sister. Marie Corona Miller at De Paul Institute the date is July 15th 1987 Sr.M: Sister you were talking about your training with the blind Sr.F.L: Yes, well at Colombia they coordinator of the program said that I could take the class so as I was saying I had to take the brail course and I was taught to use the slate and the stylus and that meant that I had to reverse the pattern in pricking the dots on paper which was difficult because it didn’t have the Perkins brail writer at the time we hadn’t purchased one yet this was all so new to me and so this was a six weeks course and after two weeks I was told that Madeline Lumis was ready to return when I was very happy to see her because everything was changed for me, she gave me a better understanding of this whole idea of brail and teaching blind children and I was thinking specifically of Ann Marie Jurard who was going to be our first blind student from Erie her mother had gone to Pittsburgh to consult with Bishop Derden to ask of it thee was any place that her child could be educated she wanted Ann Marie to have a Catholic education and there was no place provided in Erie there was no place in the Pittsburgh diocese and so Bishop Derden said well the only thing he knew that he could do would be Father Darley was building a new building our Lady of Victory Hall and he said maybe the Sisters of De Paul could provided education for her daughter and so in the meantime he consulted with Father Darley and said to specifically leave a classroom for the blind for the physical for the partially sighted and blind children and they mentioned Ann Maria Jurard so �when I was taking the course I was thinking of her doing the slate and stylus and then I knew that when I got back to school that I would we would purchase a brail writer and all the things that we needed in the mean time Agnes Stone who was a graduate from Mount Mercy was a blind women who knew the brail very well and she lived in Oakland at the time and we hired her Sister Theresa Vincent invited her to come out and to work with me and she started Ann Marie some of the things on the brail you know slate and stylus and then she we started to she didn’t stay any more than a year or a year and a half and so then after she left and I took over the whole program and we had students starting to come in and we had then after I guess several years after that I can’t recall which years but it might have been probably fifty-two but I’m not sure 1952 Sister Angelica Little came so it was Sister Angelica and myself who really engineered the blind department she started the music with the children and provided the brail dots for them to read music notations so they could play we had important piano recitals and among those students were Earl Nixon and Thomas Burgander and Marita Matthews and Candy Deet, Cindy Cudis, Denise MCcrilin, Terry McMahons, Cathy Webber, and the Wisemen twins Larry and Jimmy, Larry Mahoney which was a grandnephew of Sister Theresa Vincent, Regee Sullivan, and Timon Jackson and there was another child who came later and I can’t remember his name but he came from the North side and he had a he had a tumor on the eye and when they operated he lost his sight but I can’t remember his name and I’m sorry that I can’t. So Sr.M: Sister in you and Sister Angelica could go to Catholic University? Sr.F.L: Well Sister did yes and I did too but I got most of my training my beginning training at Colombia at Colombia and then later on I went to Catholic University yes and I took some courses there eye in eye conditions and a few other things that you know was required. Then it was several years after that that Dr.Peabody came from Detroit and he was starting a program for the physically handicapped for the blind and partially sighted at the university so he came to visit our class room and he saw the children in their atmosphere, and he invited Sister Angelica and myself to attend the class so that he could begin teacher training so he wanted us to get pointers on what to do to teach the teachers in training so we went to class every week for six weeks and Dr. Mary Moral still lived with us and she was the person who was in charge of the United Presbyterian church who brailed material for us if we wanted anything done for the children she would get a group of women to do the brailing and Sr.M: Were these women blind? Sr.F.L: These women were not blind no and they did the brail work because it was impossible to use all the textbooks, we did the Catholic textbooks Sister Angelica and myself and we tried especially religion books, but they provided the other books and they schlack them on the other side so that dots would not rub out and then they bound them with a big string shoe strings or cut shoe strings and tied and they had the books were huge they were about seven by fifteen you know in size and �they were cumbersome and heavy looking and thick and we had to provide story space for them in Lady Victory hall lockers and itemize everything everything we had . So we went every week to Pitt University and we offered our services and learned a lot too, and we had discussions about and these people came from the blind school and they came from other places that were going to start classes for the blind in the public schools just like they had classes for the deaf in public schools well it was unheard of to have deaf children then because this PL9142 wasn’t in existence then you know so after six weeks we finished our course but that was the beginning of the teacher training program at Pitt University we were invited to join in that you know work Sr.M: Sister I know that you had been very much involved in helping the children begin dressed for their production their theatrical productions here at De Paul. Can you tell us what you’ve been doing? Sr.F.L: Would you sake a theatrical productions Sr.M: Oh I think they’re theatrical Sr.F.L: Well Sr.M: What they can do Sr.F.L: Well anyhow Sr.M: Is marvelous Sr:F.L: It was a Christmas play well Sister Marie Stell and I both had a hand in that you know but lately I’d been doing most of it. In the beginning each teacher was responsible for getting her own costumes and sewing them and so I remember Sister Marie Michael Carol you know in years past needed a pair of pants for somebody and she just found two old pillow slips and sewed them together, but anyhow one point in time we had some material donated from the Altoona Silk Mills I can’t recall who sent them but we had boxes of them different colors of pinks and yellows and blues and you name it and it was boxes of that and I thought oh this would make nice costumes to make nice angel gowns and white you know would be nice for the angels you know Gabriel and so on and so after some time why we made you know people help make the wings and all kind of things and but recently I’ve been more or less commission to do the costumes for the cast so I guess the last six or seven years or so, maybe more than that. When the assignments were given to the teachers to dress the children you know each one had charge of certain groups, one would dress the soldiers and somebody else would dress Mary and Joseph and somebody else the Kings and somebody else the Shepard’s and so on, and Joseph and Mary and so I volunteered to dress them to prepare the costumes prepare the costumes so if any new costumes had to be made I went to the Altoona Silk Mill box and you know dug out some material and cut it up and tried to make costumes for �the children, and we do preserve them from year to year and we try to use them over and over again so when they have to be laundered and pressed and everything and hemmed and re hemmed and re stitched or what have you or lengthened or shortened why I’ve always taken responsibility to do that. Sr.M: Sister beside Christmas play, I know the children did other kinds of plays that happened before I came. Now the one I know that has been mostly talked about was the play To Our lady of Lords now what Sister was in charge of that? Sr.F.L: Oh, that was Sister Larita McGorie and Sister Mary Linus Hoak, they did that their classes it was for the upper class children and that was really magnificent and the children carry candles and it was really really beautiful it was like our you know Lords. Sr.M: Sister when you were a young Sister starting out here at De Paul the pattern of the young sisters going to Seton Hill in the summer was not done by you nor those who were young like you here at De Paul can you explain why? Sr.F.L: Well every summer you see in order to be trained for the teacher of the deaf we had certain number of credits to get and so Sister Brugetta and myself went to Wayne State University for three whole summers and Sister Scholastica Joyce and Sister Ramada Manean taught me this also and it was three long summers and I remember it was eight weeks at a time and the last no ten weeks ten weeks and then the next summer was ten weeks and then the next summer was ten weeks and the last the third summer was eight weeks and in addition to that we had to get our thesis written and had to be in on a certain date and also I took classes at Duquesne University and I went to Pitt University and Catholic University and tried to get as many credits as I could in order to get my state certification so in the end I was certified as an elementary school teacher in the dioceses of Pittsburgh and also deaf education and hard of hearing and in addition to that sight handicapped and blind and then later I was certificated to be a speech correctionist so in all those areas I had my certification. Sr.M: So you almost continued to go to school. Sr.F.L: Yes, Sr.M: All the summers Sr.F.L: Yes, yes it was a continuation practically every summer and then when I wasn’t doing that we were working on curriculum. Now this present the past two years I’ve been working on the curriculum, and the team for that each there are coordinators for each of the teams and for instance Sister Justina Drysockend and David Williams and Thomas Hogue and myself were the language, reading language curriculum of which I was the coordinator responsible for accumulating all the material and seeing that it was done you know properly. This was a must from the �state of Pennsylvania there were certain guidelines we had to do. We had to include our twelve goals of quality education and so we designed the curriculum the language reading curriculum so that any teacher coming in any person who wanted to learn about the deaf who expected to teach here at De Paul Institute would have something to have in hand so she would be able to follow in order to teach the reading systems, and we are presently using the Scott Forcemen series and we have been for sometime, we found them very valuable our children have scored very well in readings all the way up the line and they show progress so we know it’s a good program, and were not about to give it up and the Sister have preceded me have worked really very hard on that, Sister Helen Louise Connolly, Sister Florien Mcgorie and Sister Marylinus, and all those people and so I cant name everybody because there’s so many people involved but it just this year you know it has to be so in November were going to have an auditor is coming in and the state will evaluate our school, and so I’m not the only one this is not the only group we have to update our mathematics department, science Sister Jeremy has to do the science Sister Mary John is doing the mathematics they’re the coordinators of the speech Connie Mcgrogan and perception and all Sister Sara Marie and all the people down in the earlier you know preschool and readiness department they all have to do that. Sr.M: Sister now to go back a little bit further into at De Paul the community of De Paul would you just like you mentioned some of the Sisters who have come and are now gone many of the Sisters have died, like those in many other key positions other than teaching like I’m thinking of Sister Maureen Cogrus was here could you name some of them like some of the dieticians who were here who took care of the meals the nurses that were here. Sr.F.L: Well Sister Alice Elizabeth Nolan was here as a nurse Sister Equanatia Moore was here when I first came, Sister Ail Louise White took care of the laundry Sister Mary Louis Highland was in charge of the girls, Sister Benedicta and I can’t think of her last her family name she charge of the boys and Sister Lea Katy Mahallen was in kitchen she took care of the meals and we had other people also I can’t think of her their names Sr,M: Sister Theresa Marie Sr.F.L: Sister Theresa Marie Jenkins was in the kitchen, she came shortly after she had her hand cut you know she had an accident at Seton Hill and so she came here and I in fact I was her roommate at first over in the ? Sr.M: Well what about the laundry? Sr.F.L: Well Sister Mary Ali Louise White took care of the laundry she use to do my dusters for me and I never knew who ever took them so one day I found out that she was the one who was taking my dusters and washed them for me she was very kind. Sr.M: Well when did Swister come? �Sr.F.L: She was always here, she was here when I was here you know she was here the year I arrived. Sr.M: Sister Rose Gazada Sr.F.L: Yes, ya Rosa Gazada. She talked an awful lot about Germany and periodically she’d get little candles from Germany and we’d have them for our peace days or Christmas we’d light them put them on the table have our peace days all day celebrations and one year she ordered a crucifix from Germany and so we all admired it some of the Sister said they would like to have one you know beautiful hand carved you know beautiful and. Sr.M: Sister what about some of the children who needed some extra help Sr.F.L: Well there were always children who need extra help especially in the summer time. I recall Mark Partridge came and who was now when I first got him in my classroom he could hardly speak in sentences at all and I was surprised the other day he came to visit and he’s present living in Florida and he’s attending NTID college for the deaf and he’s majoring in photography and I was amazed to hear his speech, he was talking as well as you and I beautiful clarity beautiful work beautiful speech but this past year this is Persvel Walker who has been our on auxiliary a member of the auxiliary club for many years at De Paul Institute and who’s son attended here earlier when he was seven years old I had him in the classroom he was a deaf child and recently he had some eye problems he was unable to see so the mother’s desperate and she asks what we could do he had gone to guild for the blind and Sister Connie Ball talked with him and she tried to get him interested in brail and he was very uncooperative and they exactly she called Sister Calamida one day on the phone and said they didn’t know what to do with Robby they didn’t know how to teach him because he’s deaf and so Sister Calamida talked with me and I said oh bring him out here I know Robby I’ll take him and I said it’s been years since I’ve had the brails but I said I’ll do what I can. Sr.M: How Robert Walker graduated in what year? Sr.F.L: Oh I can’t remember what year I can’t remember it’s so long ago probably the 60’s. And so anyhow he came with his father and his father’s now retired and the mother said that the father would bring him everyday for as many times as I would take him. So he stated in December December the fourth and we started out with brail and first he was in the beginning he was reluctant to learn brail because he just didn’t want to be bothered with it but then he began to see that he couldn’t to realize that he just couldn’t do without it because he can’t see can’t hear he can’t properly learn from talking books he can’t hear the talking book and he can’t see the television and he can’t read and so he was just desperate he just knew he had to have the brail. So he started and he came everyday during the month of December and we got started. In January he had to go to Boston for an eye operation and he �saw a specialist there and it was really just a kind of preliminary to see what was what he could do and so after several weeks he came back and we resumed the brail lessons and I had him everyday I took him in the evening and I took him after school some days after school some days it was in the evening which ever time permitted on my schedule. So then during the month of May I didn’t hear from him they had gone to visit his sister in Long Island and they said they’d be away for a couple weeks, when they returned I called and said what happened and they said well there in the process of moving the mother and the father have felt that something has to be done for Robby and they didn’t they know they’re getting older and they didn’t want anything to happen to them without Robby being provided for so they decided to move to Richmond Virginia where they would be near her daughter. So if anything happened to the parents then the daughter would take over. And Robert is the type of person that was very clingy to his parents, he just can’t go without his parents and they realized that and so he’s very unsure of himself because this has happened to him. He was very outgoing in the beginning and he had a wonderful job as a proofreader in New York in Margs position and so it just the mothers just just crushed over this whole thing. So they broke the news to me that they were gonna move so I said alright I’ll take him everyday until he moves, which I did and he was getting along beautifully he began to read and was doing fine so then they had to leave and I said goodbye and I said I would keep in contact with them which I will, already sent a letter in brail to them and I guess it will be awhile until I hear anything because they have to get adjusted in their new home and moving and all that you know it takes time. So that’s that’s the present thing that’s happened. Sr.M: Sister would you like to comment as to the changes which the church as gone through since Vatican II and in turn our own community. How do you feel about those changes? Sr.F.L: Hmmm well when I think of Vatican II I think especially the liturgy. I really appreciate the liturgy in English it has been so meaningful to me. The epistles and the Gospels and the trend toward bible study, scripture, prayer meaningful to you to me to all of us. I have learned to be more spiritual in that area because I feel more prepared than I was at the time when we talked in Latin I mean Mass was in Latin and I am particularly happy to be at De Paul Institute for the liturgy because Father Convoy’s our present chaplain and he has certainly offered many many spiritual assets to our community by his homilies he always has very very touching homilies you know when you leave the chapel you always have something there. Although Fathers been with us so many years at least well I guess its thirteen fourteen years, and he has never repeated one ? and he everything is special when he’s estimation he takes each day as it comes liturgy and he plans everything. He also plans very carefully when we have parent days and also our facility meeting our facility mass meeting that’s at the school and he’s been very much of an inspiration to all of us and we’re very happy to have Father Convoy. And he certainly makes it very meaningful. As far as the clothing is concerned well I think I welcome the change. First I was reluctant to losing the habit and the rosary and the cap and all that but I �can see it’s very beneficial in lots of ways you know Polyester can in to being and we had easier ways of taking care of your clothes and Sr.M: And you did you have done lots of sewing Sr.F.L: Oh yes Sr.M: In the meantime Sr.F.L: Lots of sewing for many people Sr.M: Helping them get into the tradition SR.F.L: Yes yes and ripping the old habits and I remember I ripped the old habit from scratch and made myself a modified dress in the beginning and then when polyester came in I grabbed the chance to do that because from you know stores on sales and to make my own clothes so I do make my own clothes I make my own suits everything my own caps and I offer to make caps for other people and Sr.M: You’ve always been generous Sister Sr.F.L: And so I you know I welcomed that because I liked to sew I’ve always I’ve been sewing a long time even since I’ve been a little girl. I would make baby doll clothes and Sr.M: Did you ever take a sewing class? Sr.F.L: No not really not really but I used to examine how things were made and I would read books and listen to people talking or you know one time Sister Shela was here and she talked about something and Sister Scholastica would talk about something and I’d be listening to them and pick up a lot of things like that and so you know it was more or less a hobby with me I feel relaxed when I sew it’s a hobby for me and some people have I like to do things with needle work too you know for instance last year I made craft work for the De Paul card party Noels for the Christmas items and God loves you, and Sister Mary Bazel Youngling graciously gave me the patterns and taught me how to do that. One day one December when I was on retreat I met her and I happened to spot something she was doing and she says come on and I’ll show you well after a few lessons I was able to do it and so she offered to give me the yarn and things I needed at the time and I recently I made a visit to Carnegie and she gave me some new patterns. So last November the first we had our De Paul card party and those items were presented at the party and you know on sale and so we expect to do some more this year. Sr.M: Sister what about the Sister dolls that you dress for the community �Sr.F.L: Oh well Sister, Mother Victoria after the Vatican II changes and the habit she came here and visit me and she said I like you to do something for me she said could you consider would you consider dressing a doll that we could use for the archives and she said I know that you have done you have dressed many dolls for the Seton Hill festival and they use to raffle them off. Every year we’d have a doll raffled off Sister of Charity doll and I guess I did about ten of them and each year we would and I was in instrumental in getting these dolls through Sis Mrs. Cathy Mrs. Mrs. Webber she was the mother of of a blind student who was here years ago when I taught and she lives in the north side in Pittsburgh. So she would purchase the doll and I would get the material and I would try to get panama from our capes and discarded capes and aprons and anything that was up around anybody that wanted to offer anything were pretty good I would wash them and press them try to use them and so she would buy snaps for me she would you know then particularly remember the last doll that I did. She went to Currner’s especially to try to get a rosary that was long enough that had a preshable number of chains you know between the beads so it looked like our community rosary. So I remember particular that I I really put my heart and soul in it because I felt that was gonna be the last one that I would dress. Sr.M: This was still in the traditional habit? Sr.F.L: It is still in the traditional habit. And so I dressed that one and a woman from West end happened to be the winner at the festival, and she was delighted to be the winner and so she took it home and we never heard from her until last year or two years ago. Sister Sara Louise approached me while I was on retreat and said did you ever dress Sister of Charity dolls and I said yes I did and we laughed and she said well you know there’s a women at West end who won this doll at the festival and she’s had it for a number of years and she decided that she didn’t need it anymore and didn’t know what to do with it so she went to the Sisters of Saint James and asked what to do with it and they recommended that it be sent to Seton Hill so they directed it to me and Sister Sara Louise and here my name was on the outside of the box De Paul Institute it said. So she said would you consider you know she said I know that you dress a Sister of Charity doll for Mother Victoria, which is at the archives right now and she said the mother has gone through the trouble of making a special glass case for that and it stands on a stand and it’s covered so it’s preserved and she says Well Sister Sarah Louise said I know that you have you know dressed this doll for Mother Victoria Mother Victoria’s request now I would like to ask you if you would consider changing the black cap on this doll and putting on a white cap So we will have a white cap Sister of Charity and we’ll have a black cap Sister of Charity for the archives and I said ok I’ll do that I’ll do that. She Sr.M: Now did you already done that Sr.F.L: I’ve done it two years ago two years ago I made the white cap but I thought after I got the doll, I said I don’t even remember how to make the white cap it’s been so long since we wore a white cap and and I even Sister Agnes Theresa and those people around here don’t have any lose you know �Sr.M: So what did you do? Sr.F.L: So I finally I didn’t have a pattern I didn’t have a pattern but I measured the head forehead to the back cross here to see how many inches I’d need across here and then I measured this part and I remembered that the pattern is cut into a like a an oval shape because you have to have more for over the ears ok so I cut it out of a piece of paper first newspaper and put it on her head and then put paper clips to hold it to the hair and then I started a pleat back there to see how it would go and I found out that I didn’t have enough over the ears so I thought this isn’t right I’ll cut more so I cut another pattern out and then I cut an old sheet and tried it on an old sheet first an old piece of muslin to see how that would work and I found it was gonna be workable. So then I got some white material and Sister Sarah Louise said do you need material and I said no I I’ll have something I’ll have something. So I made the white cap for her and then I took the sleeves out and I put new sleeves in it and I took the collar out and put a new collar in it made a new collar and then I took all the clothes off and washed them and pressed it so she was all done up freshened up and then I put her back in the box ah first I had her on the stand and I showed everybody and Sister Sara Marie wanted to take it to school and I said oh no you don’t the kids aren’t gonna touch this doll I don’t want it fingered I said it’s going to the archives. So so I sent it back to her and then I got a beautiful letter from Sister Sara Marie Sara Louise thanking me for doing that. So that was but I I I couldn’t do a doll anymore I just don’t have the patience and I don’t my fingers are not nimble enough to do the fine work that I’d like to do you know very tiny hems it’s really tedious work so that’s it. Sr.M: So Sister is there anything else that we left out that you want to tell me Sr.F.L: I think I’ve said everything I wanna say Sr.M: Well I really appreciate spending this time with you reminiscing about this the days here at De Paul and a lot of the things that I didn’t know that you went through before you came to De Paul. I just wanna say that community is very grateful for the time you’ve given and this will be a part of our archival collection for the oral history program. Sr.F.L: Thank you Sr.M: Thank you Sister God bless you A correction is needed to indicate Sister Francis Louise’s appointment for her first mission at Westend. Was given by Mother Rose Genevieve Rodgers instead of Mother Marie Benedict Manahon. �Sr.F.L: Correction also was given the date of reception of the habit was not 1934 it was 1932 June 1932. Another correction navicent sisters who were with me in the first year of the navicent Sister Alice Marie Crates instead of Sister Alice Marie Moran. Thank you Sister of Charity Oral Histories Interviewee: Sr. Francis Louise Honeychuck Interviewer: Sr. Marie Corona Miller March 19,2004 This interview is being conduced as part of the Oral History program of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill. The interviewee is Sister. Francis Louise Honeychuck. The interview is being conducted by Sister. Marie Corona Miller at Caritas Christi. The date is March 19,2004. This interview is a revision of one given at DePaul Institute with Sister Francis Louise on July 15,1987. Sr.M: Good morning Sister Francis Louise Sr.F.L: Good morning Sister Sr.M: I am happy to be with you again so that we can do a revision of your history. So do you want to begin you personal history? Sr.F.L: Yes, I was born in Mount Pleasant October 23,1914 and baptized on November 1 at visitation church Mount pleasant PA. My name was given the given name was Emma Marie. My father died on October 12,1918 during the flu epidemic after his death my widowed mother and her six children Robert age 10, Andrew age 8, Laurence age 6, myself age 4, Helen age 2, and John who was born three weeks after my fathers death moved from Mount Pleasant to Scottdale Pennsylvania. It was my mothers responsibility with her great faith and trust in God her life in prayer to raise us together as a united family. My mother went to work each day cleaning offices taking in washings and whatever she could find to earn the money to support and provide for our home and needs. She insisted upon having a good education for each one of us. We were fortunate to be educated at Saint John the Baptist school Scottdale PA by the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill. I attended elementary education at Saint John the Baptist school Scottdale PA 1921 to 1929. I also attended high school at Saint John the Baptist school until my junior year. I recall some memories before school age how I had to keep my Sister Helen and my little brother John sitting on chairs all morning until my mother came home from work each day. We never thought of going outside or leaving the door open at anytime or making any noise while we were at home. We patiently waited for our mother to come home. Walking one and a half miles to school in the morning and coming home for lunch and back again to school in the afternoon gave me the exercise and the fresh air that �I needed to keep me healthy. On rainy days I rode the streetcar the fare was three cents for a ticket. I recall when I was young I became interested in trying to sew baby doll clothes I cut the patterns from newspaper to make to try to make the clothing fit my doll, I remember going to Millers big store on Pittsburgh street Scottsdale PA. I looked all the patterns that were for sale on the rack I wanted especially to know how to make a dress with a flared shirt for my doll. After at looking at all the patterns about a cent in my pocket I came home and cut out a pattern. Since I was too little to peddle my mother’s sewing machine I sewed everything by hand. On Christmas morning Santa brought me my own sewing machine later I heard that it cost about five dollars, I was happy to get it, but after several tries I found out that it really did not satisfy me very well. So I naturally turned to my mother’s sewing machine. When I was in high school I made a dress for my sister Helen and one for myself. On Saturday mornings I helped my mother do the cleaning at the Casket factory Scottsdale PA. My job was to clean the sinks the toilets and to mop the floor with soap and water while my mother did the same to the rest of the building. I recall picking up oodles of straight pins off the chairs, floor, anywhere. They had been dropped by the ladies who used the pins to make while silk lining inside the coffins. Since I had to take care of Helen and John at home, I was almost seven years old when I started to go to the first grade at Saint John the Baptist school in Scottsdale PA. All my teachers were the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill. When I entered high school at Saint John’s I began to take my lunch because the lunch hour was shorter and I had to be in class on time. It was during my junior year that I began to consider what my vocation might be in the future. At age 17 I entered the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill navicent on November 25,1932 actually it was Easter Sunday March 27th because Good Friday fell on March 25th the feast of annunciation in the year and I was told to come on Easter Sunday. I became a posolant to receive the black lace cap to cover my hair and a simple black dress with a short with a black short-sleeved cape and of course black cotton stockings to wear there. After six months and making a silent retreat for six days, I received my long black habit including a black surged pleated apron and cape a white starch collar and white cap with detachable bows under my chin. I also received a long black rosary to be worn at my left side. A new name was given to me now I was called Sister Francis Louise. One year later I made another silent retreat for six days, at the end of the retreat I received my first black silk cap and bows, I also received a new black habit pleated surge apron and pleated cape. One year later I pronounced my simple vows of poverty chap obedience. I renew them yearly until years later I pronounced vows for life. I attended classes in preparation for navicent training as well as methods of teaching technique and remained a Seton Hill navicent until 1934. Then I was assigned to begin teaching third, fifth, and sixth grade students at Saint James school Westend Pittsburgh PA from 1934 to 1937. During the Saint Patrick’s day flood 1936 all the Sisters in the convent were evacuated by boat to Divine Provence convent, we were welcomed there to eat our breakfast. Mother Evan Fisher told us to get to any convent and they would be able to take care of us. I went to Saint Stevens’ convent with four other Sisters’ by train to stay until the flood stages were over. Within a week I was asked to go to Saint Iranians Convent Oakmont PA with Sister Ann Seton Boyle. I was asked to substitute teach students in �the fifth and sixth grade because the teacher was sick. I stayed there for two weeks, then I returned to Saint James school Pittsburgh PA and taught students on the second floor near the library because the basement classrooms were not useable. After teaching third, fifth, and sixth grade in elementary education at Saint James school Westend in Pittsburgh PA, I went to the DePaul Institute in 1937 to being the service training for the hearing impaired students. During the years I worked with severely deaf students ages six to twelve with six or seven students in the class with emphasis on teaching speech reading lip reading from blind to facial expression lip reading and speech and language development using the oral no sign language method of instruction for all elementary subjects. Many of these students didn’t have the educational background needed for success namely because they were transferred from other schools or just didn’t experience personal achievement in their early education. The ultimate mission of De Paul Institute was to prepare students for success in a hearing and speaking world. Since I had some experience in teaching hearing students at Saint James School, I realized that quality education was needed for a student to transfer to a regular school. I had to provide guidance and direction to make the most of the gifts and talents of the students and to advance them to there fullest potential so that they would make the transfer successfully, it was a hard laborious job but it was very rewarding in time. Many students have attended high school and college and have successful careers. During the years 1949, 1970 a new direction came to my teaching career. Bishop Diren of the Dioceses of Pittsburgh had requested De Paul Institute to begin teaching blind and partially sighted students the history of these years can be found in the archives of the Sisters of Charity and also the De Paul Institute archives. I was asked to take a course at Colombia University and to become certified in transcribing brail using the perpins brail writer. There were a number of blind partially sighted students who attended during those years. Other teachers and especially Sister Angelica Little were involved in teaching these children. I recall the many years that students from the University of Pittsburgh, Duquesne University, and the Indiana University of Pennsylvania came for a period of six to ten weeks for their in-service training in education for the deaf. The students welcomed the opportunity to use their lip reading skills in a variety of experiences, in which the in service training of the teachers provided for them. The students always enjoyed taking part in Christmas plays singing Christmas carols and patriotic songs. They had the advantage of being taught everything that a hearing student could experience in a regular school program, even joining boy scouts and Girl Scout activities. They were always eager to put on their costumes that were prepared for them by the Sisters of De Paul Institute. They loved to display their talents to please their parents who were proud of their accomplishment. After full time teaching, I spend five years tutoring students at De Paul Institute. This was done on the private basses for students who needed special individual help for reading and language development to further their success in joining other students in daily classes provided by the De Paul Institute curriculum. The parents were grateful for their accomplishment. For the next two years I volunteered recording individual speech records for students during the school hours. This consisted of a grant at De Paul Institute the teachers were required to record the minutes of each student for speech analysis rating them �I for improvement N for no improvement. Papers were collected each week and recorded. The total number of papers for each month were recorded and given to the schools psychologist and were sent to the state of Pennsylvania for evaluation. Money was granted for the results of this money and it was used for to buy computers and other equipment for the use of the De Paul students. �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sister Marie Corona Miller Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sister Francis Louise Honeychuck Location The location of the interview De Paul Institute Pittsburgh (Pa.) Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio cassette tape Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 31:54 31:55 31:52 07:54 01:02:34 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 96kHz Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Honeychuck, Sister Francis Louise Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Sister Francis Louise Honeychuck Description An account of the resource An oral history of Sister Francis Louise Honeychuck, a Sister of Charity of Seton Hill from 1932 until 2017. The interview was conducted by Sister Marie Corona Miller and was also partially self-taped. Sister Francis Louise Honeychuck - born Emma Marie Honeychuck on October 23, 1914 - entered the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill in March of 1932. She received a bachelor's degree in education from Duquesne University in 1947 and a master's degree in education from Wayne University in 1955. She taught at St. James School in West End from 1934-1937 and at De Paul Institute from 1937-1997. From 1948-1970, she helped to develop and oversee De Paul's services for blind children. Having learned Braille through Columbia University, Sister Francis Louise submitted a Braille translation of the book Black Beauty in order to complete her program. She received a Volunteer Braille Transcriber certification from the Library of Congress in 1962. Sister Francis Louise died on April 29, 2017. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Archives of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1987/07/15 1997/02/17 2004/03/19 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource All rights belong to the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill, Greensburg, Pennsylvania. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio cassette tape Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OH-65 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/ef1f8511fcd9f1fc0ffdbafc7331b2f0.jpg d270b3a1f110982d1f7f2a0a504de665 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/b8142033602509a72faeea27d6d7413e.mp3 a07480c6e6d18e3fcc8a57ba8608e408 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/674962ba888ec9bedc03547ed0bf767c.pdf 0fad7d38ca434172caa7933a2a1c5fc0 PDF Text Text Sisters  of  Charity  -­‐  Halifax   Oral  history  interview  of  Sister  Caroleen  Marie  Browne   Interviewed  by  Sister  Theresa  Corcoran  at  Mount  Saint  Vincent,  Wellesley  Hills,   Massachusetts  on  November  28  2005.   Transcribed  by  Mary  Flynn,  Congregational  Archivist  in  2020.       Note:  Sister  Caroleen  Marie  was  supplied  a  questionnaire  to  prepare  for  the  oral   history.  When  she  reads  a  question  out  loud,  it’s  indicated  by  quotation  marks.   Any  additions  in  brackets  are  added  by  the  transcriber  for  context.       Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    0:01       -­‐conversation  between  Sister  Caroleen  Marie  Brown,  and  Sister  Teresa  Corcoran   taped  at  Mount  Saint  Vincent,  Wellesley  Hills,  November  3,  2005.       S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    0:08       I  won't  forget  it's  there.  I'll  turn  my  head  that  way.     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    0:10       Okay.       S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    0:12       This  is  Sister  Caroleen  Browne.  I  entered  the  community  in  1941,  was  professed  in   1943  and  have  spent  43  years  in  teaching.  All  aspects  of  all  grades  from  5  to  12.   No,  from  5  to  12  plus.       Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    0:51       Which  ones  did  you  like  best?     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    0:54       I  liked  Seton  Hall  [Patchogue,  New  York]  best.  The  spirit  there  was...  well  it  kept  us   going.  And  it  was  not  just  the  spirit  of  the  teachers,  it  was  the  spirit  of  the   youngsters,  too.  "What  was  the  importance  of  your  mission  ministry  for  you?"   Well,  it  brought  some  of  those  students  closer  to  God,  help  them  be  a  little  bit   more  like  good  human  beings.  That  would  be  the  kind  of  thing  that  I  would  be   looking  for.  I  would  give  you  a  ministry,  stimulate  your  growth.  Physical  growth,   eating.  [both  Sisters  laugh].   �   Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    1:56       Some  places  fed  better  than  others,  right?       S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    1:59       Yes.  In  order  to  keep  teaching  well,  I  felt  I  had  to  read  more  and  that  did  stimulate   my  growth.  "What  has  been  the  impact  of  personal  events  on  your  life?"       Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    2:32       Personal  events  could  be  almost  anything.  Family  events,  community  events.   Maybe  there  aren't  any  that  you  want  to  mention.  What  about  the  local  or   national  or  world  events?     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    2:48       Well,  personal  events,  during  the  1980s  almost  everyone  in  my  family  died  and  I   had  to  take  care  of  all  the  post-­‐death  problems.     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    3:08       Almost  all  these  people,  your  brother?     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    3:10       My  brother,  my  two  aunts,  an  uncle,  cousin.  People  who-­‐  we  were  close,  my  aunt,   especially.  In  the  impact  of  Church  events,  well,  I  think  Vatican  II  was  a  very   important  point  in  my  life  as  well  as  in  the  life  of  the  church.  And  I  am  very   distressed  to  find  that  there  are  some  people  nowadays  who  are  trying  to   downplay  Vatican  II,  because,  to  me,  it  was,  it  was  the  Holy  Spirit  speaking  to  John   XXIII.  "Has  your  image  of  God  changed  over  the  years?"  Well  yes.  Not  that  I  had   much  of  an  image  of  him.  But  it  has  changed.  I  won't  go  into  the  detail.  [both   laugh]     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    4:21       The  details.  Okay.       S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    4:24       "What  have  been  your  greatest  disappointments?"         �Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    4:31       You  may  not  have  many.     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    4:33       No,  I  don't  think  I  had  too  many  disappointments,  really.       Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    4:36       -­‐both  things  happened,  were  there  different  ways  instead  of  coping  with  them?       S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    4:42       Oh  yes,  well  during  the,  during  the  '80s,  1980s  I  just  kept  going  along.  Moving   along.  That's  the  way-­‐     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    4:54       That's  the  way  you've  always-­‐     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    4:56       Yes.  "How  have  certain  restrictions  affected  you?"       Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    5:08       I  think  by  that  we  mean  the  restrictions  we  used  to  have  in  the  community.  Did   they  affect  you  very  much?     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    5:19       Not  terribly  much.  I  didn't...  I  minded  them.  But  I  think  we  all  minded  them  to   certain  extent.  "Are  there  any  other  points  or  comments  you  wish  to  make?"  No,   except  that  I  had  a  very  happy  life.  A  very  contented  life.  And  I've  made  a  lot  of   good  friends  and  I  think  that's  one  of  the  great  things  about  religious  life.  We  do   make  friends  and  good  ones.  And  we  shall-­‐  we  shall  continue.     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    6:15       What  about  when  you  moved  from  let's  say  New  York  to  Halifax  and  back?     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    6:22       -­‐when  I  moved  to  Halifax?  That  wasn't  too  bad  a  move  at  all.  That  wasn't  too   difficult.  When  I  moved  back  here,  well  that's  a  little  more  difficult  because  this  is   more  of  an...  old  kind  of,  that  always  goes.  An  old  kind  of  structured  living.     �   Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    7:04       More  structured?       S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    7:04       Yes.  The  little  green  thing?  I  should-­‐  [noises  in  the  background  as  Sister  Theresa   moves  the  recorder]       Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    7:25       Okay.  I'll  put  that  on  top  of  the  table.     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    7:33       [laughs]  I'm  sorry.  Hope  it  doesn't  spoil  anything.     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    7:37       The...  you  mentioned  the  impact  of  church  events  in  Vatican  II.  What  about  the   position  of  women,  did  that  ever  enter  into  your-­‐     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    7:52       Oh  yes,  that  that  bothers  me  very  much.  And  the  fact  that,  I  heard  on  EWTN  the   other  day  a  big  long  talk  about-­‐  by  two  priests  taking  turns  about  how  men  are   being  left  out  because  our  Lord  is  a  feminine-­‐  attitude  of  our  Lord  are  being   emphasized.  But  I  say,  who  emphasizes  that?  Women,  who  are  they?  I  think  they   do.     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    8:33       What  do  they  mean  by  that,  I  wonder?     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    8:35       They..  that  kindness  and  relationships  are  so  important,  are  being  made   important  and  they,  I  guess  they  find  them  too  feminine.  I  was  ready  to  throw   something  at  them.  [both  laugh]  I  mean,  after  all,  who  has  done  the  greater  part   of  the  work  in  the  church  for  years  and  years  and  years?  It  hasn't  been  the  men.   And  nobody  should  be-­‐  no,  no  women  are  trying  to  push  a  feminine  Christ  on   them.  They  can  make  Christ  whom  they  please.  That  has-­‐  that  bothered  me  a  little   bit.     �   Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    9:36       Your  work  didn't  bring  you  into  situations  where  you  would  have  found  that   frustrating  or  would  it  have?     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    9:42       No.  Any,  any  work  I  did,  mostly,  the  most  contact  I  had  with  priests  was  through   First  Communion  classes  and  things  like  that  and  we  went  out  to  the,  to  the...  the   church.  Some  of  the  priests  were  very  nice  to  us  and  some  of  them  who  kind  of   brushed  us  off.  But...  when  we  were-­‐  from  Seton  Hall,  there  was  a  group  of  us   that  went.     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    10:26       Oh  right,  yeah.     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    10:27       And  taught  Sunday  school  or  Tuesday  school  or  whatever  school  it  would  be.     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    10:41       So  that  was  probably  the  only  kind  of  parish  work  that  you  really  did?       S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    10:45       Yes.  I  never  did  anything  more  than  that.     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    10:58       So  as  a  young  person  who  were  some  of  the  people  that  you  would  have  some...   look  up  to?     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    11:03       Looked  up  to?  Well,  Miriam  Constance,  Frances  de  Chantal.  Now,  Frances  de   Chantal  had  a...  very,  she  had  a  lot  of  people  who  didn't  like  her  at  all  because  she   was  very  exact.  And  she  was,  but  we  were  in  St.  Peter's  at  the  time,  we  had  just   come  out  of  the  novitiate  and  some  of  the  older  Sisters  are  using  us  -­‐  were  using   us  to  do  their  work.  They  were  very  successful  for  quite  a  long  time  before,  before   somebody,  Sister  Frances  de  Chantal  found  out  and  then  the  thing  was,  there  was   a  list  on  the  bulletin  board  of  who  was  to  go  to  take  care  of  confessions  every   Saturday  afternoon.  They  had  confessions,  one  Saturday  for  the  parochial  school   �boys,  one  for  the  parochial  school  girls,  one  for  the  public  school  boys,  one  for  the   public  school  girls.  And  we  were  assigned.  Everybody  in  the  house  was  on  the  list.   Well  one  Saturday,  one  Sunday,  Sister  Frances  de  Chantal  called  me  and  said,   "where  were  you  yesterday  afternoon?"  I  said,  "I  was  at  church,  confession."  And   she  said,  "but  it's  not  your  turn."  I  said,  "No,  but  we're-­‐  most,  most  Saturdays  they   asked  Margaret  McGaughey  and  myself  to  go  over  because  they,  they're  going   home  to  visit  their  parents."  [laughs]  Yeah,  so  she  said,  "you  don't  have  to  go   anymore.  Anymore  when  they  ask  you,  you  just  say  no."  And  heard  that  she  got  a   hold  of  all  of  them,  without  us  knowing  it,  you  know.  Because  nobody  ever  asked   us  again.  [both  Sisters  laugh]  I  can  see  how  they  didn't  like  her  because-­‐  but  she   was  good,  she  was  good  to  us,  she  was  trying  to  be  fair  to  us.  Peter  Claver,  I   admired  her  very  much.       Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    11:03       Were  you  teaching  with  her  or  was  she  principal?     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    13:41       No,  she  wasn't  principal.  I  was  teaching  with  her.  And,  she...  she  would  always   say,  "every  youngster  had  good  in  him.  You  have  to  look  for  the  good."     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    14:10       Sometimes  you'd  look  out  at-­‐     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    14:12       Yes,  but  she,  she  always  looked  for  the  good  in  every  single  youngster  she  taught.     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    14:18       Now  was  this  at  Patchogue?     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    14:20       Seton  Hall,  yes.  And  she  always  looked  really  good  and  she  always  found  it  and   they  would  do  anything  under  the  sun  for  her  because  they  thought,  they  trusted   her  entirely.  Completely.  So  I  learned  a  lot  from  her,  from  being  with  her.     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    14:58       -­‐just  as  a  colleague,  really.     �S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    14:59        Yes.     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    15:09       Are  there  any  people  that  you  still  keep  in  contact  with  in  New  York  or  in  Halifax?     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    15:16       Well,  I  keep  writing  back  to  Walsh  House  [Halifax,  Nova  Scotia].    I  admire   Margaret  very  much.  Margaret  Molloy.  And...     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    15:41       Of  course  a  lot  of  those  people  that  we  knew  in  those  days  have  gone  too.     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    15:44       Yeah.  That's  true.  The  ones  who,  in  the,  had  in  the  earlier  days,  they're  not,   they're  not  around  anymore.       Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    16:18       Do  you  have  any  other  comments  you  want  like  to  make?     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    16:18       I'm  grateful  for  everything  that  was,  that's  ever  been  done  for  me.     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    16:24       Of  course  you've  done  a  lot  of  things  yourself  for  people.     S.  Caroleen  Marie  Browne    16:26       I  try  to  do  something.  [both  laugh]  I  thank  you  for  all  you  did.     Sister  Theresa  Corcoran    16:40       I  didn't  do  too  much,  you  were  doing  more  for  me.       � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Halifax Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Browne, Sister Caroleen Marie, SC, Interview Subject The topic of the resource Sisters of Charity of Halifax; Teaching; Browne, Sister Caroleen Marie, SC Description An account of the resource Sister Caroleen Marie Browne (1923-2007) describes her life as a Sister of Charity - Halifax, including her entrance to the community in 1941, her 43 years missioned as a teacher of grades 5 to 12, family, and Sisters she admired. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Browne, Sister Caroleen Marie, SC; Corcoran, Sister Theresa, SC Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity - Halifax Congregational Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 11/28/2005 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Flynn, Mary (Transcriber) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Online access is provided for research purposes only. For rights, reproduction, and use requests or more information, please contact the Sisters of Charity – Halifax Congregational Archivist. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource 00:17:03 Audio/mp3 Audio/cassette Application/pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SCHalifax_Browne Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1941-2005 Education Sisters of Charity of Halifax https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/5000a1845e2bf94131aad5edd5540676.jpg 96f611ced5ff0e5f8c2709e3d8d6eb87 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/6f68812b3b72fa2a48b371a62b657fec.mp3 06be46f385dee104faeef795f23be475 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/61a40cfecec020315e7976ea58393797.pdf 6de0ed6a8d5af6a614eb3d1bbeb20c8f PDF Text Text Sisters of Charity - Halifax Excerpt of an oral history interview of Sister Maria Clare Kehoe conducted by Sister David Marie Campbell at Mount Saint Vincent Motherhouse in Halifax, Nova Scotia in 1981. Transcribed by Mary Flynn, Congregational Archivist in 2020. Additions in brackets are for context. S. David Marie Campbell: Now there must be a few things in the West that you reallyS. Maria Clare Kehoe: We enjoyed the West very much. Very often Father Coughlin would come take us over to Ladysmith [British Columbia] then we went up Alberni, then another time we went up to St. Joseph's Hospital and we stayed there over two or three nights. All over the island he took us. He said we'd visit around a great many places. He thought that would be a good idea because as we were teaching to know as much as much as you possibly could about what we werewhere we where and what we were going to do and our teaching. So we got many good drives with Father Coughlin. But Father Kennedy came after him. Yeah, he was just a very fine priest. He couldn't do enough for us. I think we were the first ones- He got us a Frigidaire. We didn't have one. And he got us a Frigidaire, put everything in it. And we were very, very happy. In fact, the Redemptorists were wonderful to us, I must say. On our first Christmas, we had a... we put on a show, play. It was a very beautiful one. I still have the pictures, I think the pictures of that play. And the people just went out for us. S. David Marie Campbell: Who was in the play, the children? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: The children, the whole school, Point Grey. And we were then living at St. Helen's. We had 10 miles to go every morning to go to Point Grey. Sometimes we didn't get in there until 10 o'clock on account of the fog. So we'd find perhaps one of the eighth grade girls in our classes looking after or perhaps a Brother, one of the Brothers, because we had to go about 10 miles and byS. David Marie Campbell: How would you go? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: By bus, of course. That took, that took- 10 miles, it took us a good while to get there. Sometimes we would stop for about 15 or 20 minutes when some of the patches of fog would be coming in very heavily. That lasted for one year. And then I believe that was going to... Sister Rosaria was the Superior at St. Joseph's. And people, some Sisters were going to college and she thought, she asked Father Coughlin if he would try and get a house for us out there so the Page 1 of 11 �Sisters could live there. A Sister was going to go- but she didn't come in the end but we got the house. It was very lovely. It was a little grey house. It was only small, but was very, it was handy for four of us. Then finally we got from that house to a larger one called Noma Linda. Very lovely, up on a hill. Beautiful flowers. They had everything, even fruit trees on the land whereas I believe they have the new convent now. Our Sisters are still there. I loved that mission. It was very lovely. S. David Marie Campbell: I've never been west, so. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: No? Beautiful missions. In fact, all the missions were lovely there. Lovely there. We were very, very united as one, all the houses, very united. We'd meet very often, someplace like the Seton Academy, if there's anything going on. Sometimes lectures. I remember we had a couple of lectures from Mr. Coady. He was the lawyer there. I believe he has relatives. I think Sister, Sister David is one of his relatives. Yes, yes very close. He's a very fine, wonderful man. And then we had... there's another place there that we used to go downtown at... the McMasters. They had a tearoom. They're Antigonish people. S. David Marie Campbell: Yes. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: And they were very kind to us, very lovely. Three, the three girls couldn't do enough for the Sisters. S. David Marie Campbell: So thenS. Maria Clare Kehoe: I believe now they're all in heaven. Not any of them living. Now Mr. Coady is. S. David Marie Campbell: Yes. Mr. Coady is. I think Miss MacMaster, didn't she marry a McKinnon? Isn't she still living? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I didn't know that. I knew Mrs. Coady very well because she's from Lingan [Cape Breton, Nova Scotia]. I knew her well, but I didn't know her.... I don't know aboutS. David Marie Campbell: MacMasters. Page 2 of 11 �S. Maria Clare Kehoe: No, no. Rose and Tina and Anna were the three girls. The MacMasters. They were very wonderful people. S. David Marie Campbell: But when did you come back then from the west? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I came back... 1948. I taught 48 years without a let up. S. David Marie Campbell: 48 years? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Yes, I came to Dartmouth [Nova Scotia]. I left Dartmouth '59. I came to the [Mount Saint Vincent] Motherhouse for six months. Then I went to St. Mary's [Covent in Halifax, Nova Scotia] in 1961. I had my hip operation. And then I was at St. Mary's and I tutored some of the children for the school there in reading. I was... though I had a cane, I was able to do a great deal of work. Then I came to the Mount here in '67 because they were going to close St. Mary's. That's what I had understood but it was open for a year after. And when I came here, I also had a pupil that came. I had two pupils that I taught reading to in the afternoon, a couple of hours. Finally I had the second operation in August, that finally put me out of commission. S. David Marie Campbell: Not really. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Well almost. I'm able to hop around now a little. S. David Marie Campbell: Yes. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: But then I had the operational on my knee. Two operations from on the 16th [?] 1976 and then '78 on May 20th I had the other operation on the same knee. And yet I am I going. S. David Marie Campbell: You're going, yes. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: And I am 93 today. Oh no. S. David Marie Campbell: Page 3 of 11 �No you're not 93. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I'll be 93- uh 94 in May. S. David Marie Campbell: 94 in May, yes, you're saying. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: And I'm still going. S. David Marie Campbell: You're still going. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: And I hope to... I hope to see... S. David Marie Campbell: Do you want to see 100? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Yes, surely I'll be 100. S. David Marie Campbell: Yes. That'sS. Maria Clare Kehoe: Why not!? S. David Marie Campbell: No that's right too. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I don't want to leave now that we're having such a good time. S. David Marie Campbell: But aren't you glad that you, you lived in the days where things were difficult and are... you wouldn't want to be around these days? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Oh, I wouldn't want those over again. Not for a million dollars. S. David Marie Campbell: No, you wouldn'tPage 4 of 11 �S. Maria Clare Kehoe: No, no, no. S. David Marie Campbell: You wouldn't? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: No I think this is- you can do so much more for God when you're free. You weren't free then. It was a bell here and a bell there and they were just ringing bells. S. David Marie Campbell: No that- no that's very true. Yes. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: What we didn't like very much was kissing the prie-dieux. You know. Everybody's hands were on those and I very seldom did, I kissed my own hand. S. David Marie Campbell: You didn'tS. Maria Clare Kehoe: Well I did because I felt the germs were on those. Everybody's hands on the prie-dieux. Of course I did. I didn't think it was wrong. And then kissing the floor. I don't know, I neverS. David Marie Campbell: Did you kiss the floor? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I didn't kiss the floor. I kissed my hand. S. David Marie Campbell: You didn't kiss the floor? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Well no, no, Sister. The dust, the dirt. S. David Marie Campbell: I wouldn't have thought of that. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: You wouldn't have thought of it? I did. I think that's why I'm living so long. I gotS. David Marie Campbell: Page 5 of 11 �All the shortcuts. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I didn't get those germs going around. S. David Marie Campbell: Knew all the shortcuts. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I did. I had the shortcut. And I think the Lord approved of it, too. S. David Marie Campbell: Well you're very, you seem so, so terribly young, in your head. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I wasn't young when I entered. S. David Marie Campbell: No. And you are now. You're, you're certainly not, not any older in your mind. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Well of course I'm not. Why should you be? S. David Marie Campbell: Well you're 93. You're almost 94. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Doesn't matter, dear. Doesn't matter. It's not the age at all. It's how you live. It's just that if you want to live old, you're going to live old. If you want to be young, you've got to live young. That's what I'm living. Young. S. David Marie Campbell: You're living young? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Yes. S. David Marie Campbell: You're still up to tricks. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I'm still up to tricks. I'll play them on anyone. I believe it's good for the soul. S. David Marie Campbell: It's good for thePage 6 of 11 �S. Maria Clare Kehoe: And I love reading stories, especially murders. S. David Marie Campbell: Oh, that's terrible. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Well I know, but they're good, they're good. S. David Marie Campbell: Can you sleep at night, if you're reading themS. Maria Clare Kehoe: Oh, I sleep well at night, dear. Have no troubles falling sleep. S. David Marie Campbell: You have good eyesight, your- that's another blessing, too. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: My eyesight is too bad at all. No. S. David Marie Campbell: It might be just sort of providential. You can't run around or God knows what you'd be doing! S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Well that's just- I think that's what's happened. Never know what I'd do. Might just run yet, you never know! S. David Marie Campbell: No, I thinkS. Maria Clare Kehoe: Miracles can be performed. S. David Marie Campbell: Well, the LordS. Maria Clare Kehoe: The Lord can perform a miracle that I could I could walk again without anything. S. David Marie Campbell: [laughing] Why would He waste a miracle on you at 93? Page 7 of 11 �S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Well why not? Every minute you live is for eternity. S. David Marie Campbell: For eternity? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Well, of course. S. David Marie Campbell: Well I think you'll very- you do much better. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: The Lord- He sees that you, you know, you want to live and you want to be good. You want to do more work for him. Why not? I still crochet and knit. S. David Marie Campbell: Oh, I know. That's what I mean. But He wants to- he's trying to hold your back! S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Well, I know. butS. David Marie Campbell: He's not having an easy time. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Why would He hold me back? I can keep going. S. David Marie Campbell: But Sister Maria Clare, you're so involved and interested in young people that you know, people if people can come and talk to you as if you were as young as they are, young people, and you're really not that young. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Well of course. I love that. I loveS. David Marie Campbell: You enjoy young people? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I enjoy young people. Yes. I like young people. I don't like people that grumble and growl. I like the young. I like that they're starting out because I just know how I was myself when I started Page 8 of 11 �out. And I feel like that now. I could be young all over again. And start out and be just like one of them. S. David Marie Campbell: Yes. Well, I mean, it's, it's really it's wonderful for the for the young people too, becauseS. Maria Clare Kehoe: I have a great many that come and I'm able to say some things to them. S. David Marie Campbell: And it really is another thing too- it does is for young, even young Sisters coming and talking to an old, old Sister and find out she's not that old, old in her mind. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: No, I don't like that because I don't like them to say "old Sisters." I think they could say... S. David Marie Campbell: No I don't mean they say it but they're able to talk to an old Sister and find she's very young. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I say "senior Sisters." I don't like that word "old." I think that should be taken out of the vocabulary completely. "Old sisters." I know a Sister came in the other day with a flower to me. And she said, "here's a beautiful flower that a lady sent in to an old Sister." Well, I said, "take it right out here, because it doesn't belong to this Sister." And she said, "Oh, but Sister." I said, "now who was the lady?" She said "no, I don't think you know her." Well, I said "you go find the old Sister and give it to her because there's no old Sister in this room. Now please take it out." "Oh," she said "I'll leave it here for a while." Now that flower is still there. But I'm telling her to take it and find that old Sister. And I hope she does soon. S. David Marie Campbell: Do you think there's any old Sisters? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I don't think there is. S. David Marie Campbell: Some people some people are old before their time. So if that applies to religious life, too. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I don't know Sister. I think... they must be suffering from some disease. S. David Marie Campbell: It's a person's temperament. Page 9 of 11 �S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I think, though they must suffer. I don't think anybody would feel old, you know? I think the religious life, they have everything to live for. S. David Marie Campbell: Full life. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I think God is wonderful to call us to this life. S. David Marie Campbell: Well you, you've served- You've taught for 48 years. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: And if I had my life to live over again, I'd do the same thing. I'm positive I would. S. David Marie Campbell: What- did you teach... was it children you taught? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Oh I had beautiful children. Were they ever beautiful. Wherever I went, I'd tell them they were beautiful. S. David Marie Campbell: What grades? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Grade 2, Primary. I loved grade two. Three, the beginners. S. David Marie Campbell: These are interesting. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I had three grades: primary, grade 1, grade 2. That was my class when I went to Vancouver. I did enjoy them. They were just sweet to see it- just see them blossoming out, you know, the little ones come to you. I often felt sorry for those who taught the older ones. They'd come home dragging and worried looking and I was as happy as a lark after teaching those children. That's sad today that there are not enough teaching going on with the little ones. And really it's so- I feel terrible. S. David Marie Campbell: What do you mean, the Sisters not teaching them? Page 10 of 11 �S. Maria Clare Kehoe: The Sisters not teaching. Oh Sister. There's where you get them. I had a number here in the community. They remember from the time they were in my class I used to take them to the chapel and make a visit with Him. And they remember that. I had a number here. Sister Ignace Therese is one, Sister Agnes Bernadette, Sister Justa, that wonderful Sister, God love her! Oh, there's so many I had. And who's this other, there's one up here. Sister... S. David Marie Campbell: Not Laura Brennan? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: Laura Brennan! Yes. S. David Marie Campbell: Did you teach her? S. Maria Clare Kehoe: I remember saying that- I took her up to see the old Sister Ann Teresa that died. And she was laid out and she asked me, "what was it she had in her hand? Is there a piece of paper, that roll of paper?" And I said that was her passport to heaven. And she went home and asked her father what it meant. "Well," he said, "that was the paper that her vows were on and she took it to heaven." He knew about it. She's here. I meet lots of my pupils. But I said from the beginning, I think that children should have teachers and I'm sorry the parochial schools have gone out of commission. There should be more. S. David Marie Campbell: No, there's not very many now. S. Maria Clare Kehoe: They're not. That's a shame, Sister. We're not in contact at all with the children. Page 11 of 11 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Halifax Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Kehoe, Sister Maria Clare, SC, interview [Excerpt] Subject The topic of the resource Sisters of Charity of Halifax; Teaching; Kehoe, Sister Maria Clare, SC Description An account of the resource Sister Maria Clare Kehoe (1887 - 1986) discusses her life as a Sister of Charity – Halifax. Sister Maria Clare spent 48 years as a teacher to grades primary to 4 and reminisces on her time spent at missions in Vancouver, British Columbia (1927-1948) and Halifax, Nova Scotia (1948-1981). Sister Maria Clare retired at 1959 from teaching and at age 93, is reflecting on her experience as a self-proclaimed “Senior Sister." Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Campbell, Sister David Marie, SC; Kehoe, Sister Maria Clare, SC Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity – Halifax Congregational Archives Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1981 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Flynn, Mary (Transcriber) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Online access is provided for research purposes only. For rights, reproduction, and use requests or more information, please contact the Sisters of Charity – Halifax Congregational Archivist. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource 00:16:23 Audio/mp3 Audio/cassette Application/pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SCHalifax_Kehoe Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1927-1981 Education Sisters of Charity of Halifax https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/3aebb8db442ada8cc6b49c8a8cf0f041.jpg cc9e1308e4aa6af96f5c2522c70cd4f4 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/9a52d17af0a4058316c26739513c87b9.pdf e3d7695e39acdac83d1cb4a5c0b46d91 PDF Text Text Sisters of Charity of New York Interview with Sr. Claire E. Regan, SC Thursday, 7/30/19 1:32PM • 42:27 Angelica Bullock 00:00 Today is July 30th, 2019. My name is Angelica Bullock and I'm interviewing Sr. Claire Regan. We are in Sr. Claire's office right now in LeGras [Sisters of Charity Center Administration Building]. Will you state your full name and your religious name? Sr. Claire E. Regan 00:22 Claire E. Regan. I use the 'E' because there's another Claire Regan in Community so I started using the 'E'. Claire E. Regan and that is also my given name. Angelica Bullock 00:37 What is your current age now? Sr. Claire E. Regan 00:39 Sixty-five. Angelica Bullock 00:44 When did you enter the congregation and how old are you? Sr. Claire E. Regan 00:49 I entered at age twenty-nine and it was 1982. Angelica Bullock 00:56 And how many years have you been in the Congregation? Sr. Claire E. Regan 01:00 It will be thirty-seven years in September. Angelica Bullock 01:05 So first we're going to talk a little bit about your family life. Where were you born and where did you grow up? Sr. Claire E. Regan 01:12 I was born in the South Bronx and baptized in St. Luke's Church. And then my family moved when I was an infant to the projects in East Harlem on 99th Street, the Carver houses and we were parishioners of St. Francis DeSales Parish. I went to St. Francis DeSales school for elementary school. -1- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 01:44 And where did you go for high school? Was it an elementary kindergarten through eighth grade? Sr. Claire E. Regan 01:52 High school, I went to the Bronx High School of Science in the Bronx. Angelica Bullock 02:00 Can you tell me a little bit about your parents, their name, their place of origin, their occupation? Sr. Claire Regan 02:09 My father was Peter Regan. And he was born in County, Cork, Ireland, in 1904. He died in 1980 at age 76. I was 27. My mother was Catherine Boyle Regan, like Elizabeth Boyle, which always kind of tickled me. So, my mother was Catherine Boyle Regan. And she was born in Bayonne, New Jersey of Irish parents, who emigrated here and settled in New Jersey. Angelica Bullock 02:53 Do you know how they met? Sr. Claire E. Regan 02:55 Yes, my father was a boarder in the house. My mother's Aunt had a boarding house, and my father was a boarder there. And my mother would help prepare meals on Sundays for the men. And she met my father. Angelica Bullock 03:14 Do you have any siblings? Sr. Claire E. Regan 03:16 Yes, I had four siblings. Two of my brothers have pre-deceased me. Daniel, Peter, Daniel deceased at age sixty-two, Peter deceased at age fifty-one. I have a sister Kathy. She's currently age sixty-nine and a twin brother James. Angelica Bullock 03:42 And are any of your siblings in religious life? Sr. Claire E. Regan 03:45 No. No one in the family ever was. No. Angelica Bullock 03:52 And where did you go to college? -2- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Claire E. Regan 03:56 I started at NYU [New York University] as pre-med. I dropped out after my second year. I think organic chemistry was my downfall. I did not do well on the early testing and I just dropped out from NYU. Plus it was the days of pot and hippies and free love and all that kind of environment in the Village. I wasn't all that comfortable with it at the time. So, I dropped out and really felt I needed to make a living to earn my lifestyle, earn my way. I recently moved into an apartment with my sister and paying rent and the bills while I was getting money part time was not enough. So, I wanted to work full time and make a living, and then financially help my family in some way. Angelica Bullock 04:54 So, what were you doing for work? Sr. Claire E. Regan 04:57 I worked at Blue Cross Blue Shield. I answered telephones for the Dental Claims Department, all kinds of subscriber questions and queries. "Where's my claim?" "Where's my check?" "You paid me the wrong amount." "What are my benefits?" We would hear from dentist subscribers.The group representatives took any and all phone calls for the Dental Department. We also handled the written correspondence to the members when they had questions or issues about a claim payment, whether it was correct or incorrect, what were the benefits that were applied. That kind of thing. Angelica Bullock 05:40 Did you like doing it? Sr. Claire E. Regan 05:42 We got volumes of calls that I did for about five years and I said, "I can't answer another phone call!" Then I wanted to go into the claims examiner claims adjuster side of things because the pressure from the general public, the subscribers, was getting intense. We had more and more contracts coming in, and fewer people to handle the phone volume. And I said, "I'll work on the claims." Because the problems we were getting on the phone, I said if work on the claims side and fix the claims, we won't get half the calls. So, I figured I'll take a promotion and work as a claims adjuster, which I did, but that was boring as heck. After about a year-and-a-half of that, I took a promotion to be a statistical clerk in management services. And I did statistical work management services. And in about a year-and-a-half into that I saw an opportunity to look at graduate education and that the company would sponsor me for a graduate degree which I didn't think I had the chance of a snowball. But my colleagues in the Dental Department said, “If you're going to go on to school, apply for the scholarship and see what happens, but don't just, you know, go on and act like you'll never have the chance.” And I won on the scholarship. So, I was paid my salary and full tuition was paid by the company for two years and I went to Chicago to Northwestern University, the Kellogg School of Management in Evanston, Illinois. And I lived for two years just north of Chicago in Evanston, Illinois. And my degree was in health and human health and hospital services, health and hospital systems management, that's HHS health and hospital systems management. Hospital systems were just beginning at that time. It was a brand new venue and also HMOs [Health Management Organizations] were coming into more of a public awareness. I can't say acceptance, they were still a little -3- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �experimental in terms of public acceptance, but HMO was becoming a model for the delivery of health care, primary health care especially. So that was the era in which I was getting my graduate degree. Angelica Bullock 08:23 And how old were you approximately when you are getting your graduate degree? Sr. Claire E. Regan 08:28 Twenty-four to twenty-six. Angelica Bullock 08:32 Because you said that at that time you were twenty-four to twenty-six? Sr. Claire E. Regan 08:36 I was twenty-five to twenty-seven. Angelica Bullock 08:38 Twenty-five to twenty-seven. And you joined the Sisters of Charity at 29. Sr. Claire E. Regan 08:49 When I finished, when I came back from my graduate degree, it was 1980. My father died a few months after I came back to New York, and it was after that, that I experienced a sense of a call to vocation. I hadn't much thought about being a nun at all. It was never anything that appealed to me. And certainly, I was on a fast track for the management level, officer level at the corporation. So, this was kind of an unexpected inconvenience, my vocation, my call. But it was done in October, it was maybe about that Thanksgiving that I started to get this idea, did you ever think of being a nun? It was a crazy idea that must be foreign? And I was always faithful going to Church and I helped at my parish. I gave scholarships to young people who were working in the day camp for the summer, I would pay for one or two of those counselors to get the salary paid for them. I was very generous in the collections. I was active, and it happened that this Sister of Charity came to the parish just at that time when my father died. And she and I were working, and she put me to work on things I've never done before, liturgy planning, some faith sharing. It was something called the renew program. I was like, “I never did that before.” She said, "You can do it, come on, you can do it." "But I've never done this before." "You can do it.” That was Sr. Carol D'Angelo, and she came as a social worker to the parish and was doing outreach to the families in the home. And so, with God's call and inspiration, the question wouldn't go away. Then Sr. Carol, I would meet with her. They started to have some discernment meetings for vocation here at the Mount [Mount Saint Vincent, Bronx, NY]. Once a month, little gatherings of women who might be asking the question, and so I went to those meetings and then I pursued the matter through Sr. Carol's help and contact with the Community and so on. And I say I entered through Mount Carmel. That was the local convent on the 116th street. So, I tell people I entered through Mount Carmel. -4- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 11:19 So, what did your family think about you joining the Sisters? Especially, what did your mother and your siblings think? Sr. Claire E. Regan 11:30 Yeah, my father was dead at the time. My mother was not happy. She said I was hanging out with that Sr. Carol too much. And I knew it was going to be a difficult conversation. But God inspired me and I had the answer. I said, “You know, Mom, if there's anybody to blame, it's you and dad.” She didn't have an answer for that. So God spared me, that really quieted her down but, she wanted to have grandchildren and I was going to be the one. So anyway, after my first year, when I was entering novitiate, my mother came to me and said, I see that you're happy and so on. But she wasn't at the beginning. Angelica Bullock 12:14 What did your siblings think? Sr. Claire E. Regan 12:17 I was crazy. "And what are you doing? What? Do what? Become..." I mean, my friends, my siblings. My sister tells me that she went to my mother and said, "Can you believe this thing that she's doing?" And my mother said, "You know, she was always different. Even as a little kid." I would always go to the little religious article store we had in the neighborhood and buy those holy cards for birthday gifts and little statues and rosaries, Bibles, kind of little religious articles for anybody's birthday or my parent’s anniversary, something for the house. So, my mother said to my sister, in these offhanded conversations, when I guess they were trying to figure me out, said, “You know, she always was a little different." So that's kind of where I guess they came to terms with it. I was a little different, I was naughty. Angelica Bullock 13:11 And how did you feel entering at the age of twenty-nine? Sr. Claire E. Regan 13:16 I was giving up a lot. I didn't own a car or a home, but I was giving up my credit cards, my bank accounts, my career path. That was the biggest thing. I was giving up my career path, my apartment, my living independently for nine years. I mean, this was a big experiment. It was a big experiment. It was a big mystery and I had to let go of a lot but a lot of it also was that sense of the career path and where I was headed, and then this other was over here, a redirection. Angelica Bullock 13:58 What was your first mission working with the Sisters? Sr. Claire E. Regan 14:02 As a candidate, I served at St. Vincent's Hospital as an administrative resident. And that's like a medical residency but in administration. It's called administrative resident. So I rotated through various departments in the hospital. I got to know the Sisters at the hospital. I got to know the administrative issues and the staffing and the problems of the largest, large Catholic institution. -5- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 14:31 A question that I've been asking other Sisters, is the ability to see God in their mission. A question I have for you is when you were working in there, did you see God in the work that you were doing? Was that something you were concerned with? I guess it's not really... Sr. Claire E. Regan 14:51 Oh, no, I've struggled. I struggled with the politics of healthcare, the reimbursement, the politics, the systemic issues of health care. The word Catholic I remember saying at one time, "Okay, call it Vincent's Hospital. Don't call it St. Vincent's Hospital," because what was happening in the board room or in the administrative venues was not the same dialogue or engagement, mostly male dominated power, conflicted, reimbursement-driven. It was not the same world as the Sisters were inhabiting on the outside, serving the patients and trying to serve patients, patients' families. The patient advocates ombudsman, work in the lab or in the different surfaces of the hospital giving direct service. There was a real conflict at that time in my heart, about the Catholic mission and what was Catholic about this. It didn't feel very different from any other hospital at that time. It didn't feel that way to me coming in. Angelica Bullock 16:07 Is that something that you still feel or has it evolved? Sr. Claire E. Regan 16:13 There aren't Catholic hospitals in New York much anymore. Most of them have been driven out, the reimbursement mechanisms. There are a few of course, St. Joseph's, St. Vincent's, Harrison, and upstate, they're run differently upstate. It's not the same level of unreimbursed free care. It's not the same volume. So I left, then I entered and became a novice. And I did a year of volunteer work at the the Veterans Hospital on Kingsbridge Road. And I loved it. One day a week I was at the information desk, greeting the visitors, told them where they could find whatever they were looking for or give them visitor's passes. Just pass the time of day with the different men coming in. It was mostly men, coming for outpatient services. It was a great environment, it's like a big boys’ club. It was very different, the Veterans Hospital, very different. And then I entered novitiate and took vows. My first two years I worked at St. Joseph's Hospital in South Yonkers as the administrator and I liked that very much. I liked the idea of a community hospital. There was a Sister of Charity running it, Sr. Mary Linehan. It had a wonderful sense of mission, identity in the neighborhood, really had a community hospital mission and sense of itself that I loved and the staff was tremendous. The doctors, the employees, everybody had been there for a long time. It was like a big family. It was nice, I liked that. But I wanted to get back to East Harlem and I did. I went back to work for a home health agency in East Harlem as a client advocate. Angelica Bullock 18:25 And that was for the Littles Sisters of... -6- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Claire E. Regan 18:27 Little Sisters of the Assumption. And I was in the food pantry. I didn't run the food pantry in terms of ordering the food; Sr.Chris [not a Sister of Charity] did that. But there were two of us. Managed the food pantry, all the advocacy, most of it welfare advocacy, some evictions, applications for public benefits, all kinds of public benefits. Applications, food stamps, Medicaid, Welfare and part of the city-wide coalition of emergency food providers. We were documenting the matters of hunger in East Harlem, and what was causing people to have to come with food emergencies. What were the health impacts of some of those food emergencies, and impacts on children and families in the neighborhood of East Harlem. It was an exciting place to be and we were doing it collaboratively with other churches in the neighborhood who were beginning also to open food pantries. Angelica Bullock 19:34 And did you see the people who were using your services often or was it more...? Sr. Claire E. Regan 19:40 Everyday. Oh, yeah. They were coming every day for food. Angelica Bullock 19:45 And how did that impact your life or your theology or anything? Sr. Claire E. Regan 19:54 There's a quote in Scripture, 'the faithful steward who disperses food from the master's supply.' something like that. But I remember praying on that many a time and being grateful that God had put me in such a significant position to be the faithful steward dispersing the goods from the master supply to those in need. It was a very difficult era in East Harlem. It was 1987 to 1992. The crack epidemic, AIDS was happening, AIDS epidemic, crack cocaine, there were drug wars. I mean, people coming in the agency were either newly arrived undocumented people who have no jobs or have new babies and were trying to get health care for the babies and the mothers. And then you had addicts coming in to try to get some food to sell on the corner. So, we had to kind of be wise stewards of the little we had, so that we would disperse it in the proper way we had to. We had to assess each person differently and individually, but there were people trying to get over who were addicted to substances and things. Then what we tried to do, because we didn't want to pre-judge, we would take the labels off the can and market peas, carrots, potato, you know, but take the labels off the cans so they couldn't be resold. Or that somebody wouldn't be selling it on the corner. Because the clients would come in and say, “Sister, you gave to that guy the other day and he just was selling it on the corner,” so we were hearing it from the people that we were trying to serve that we were being taken advantage of. So, there was this kind of tension in serving in the front lines of the poor community in a drug era and era of crack cocaine and AIDS. That was part of the pain of being someone giving away food as well. It was a terrible heartache, because you didn't want to deprive someone of food if they needed it. So, what we did was mark them, take the labels off the cans or put a hole in the spaghetti box or do something so they would have food but they wouldn't be able to sell it. -7- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 22:32 Did you get pushback either internally from other Sisters and the Community or externally, family members, friends, about the work you were doing specifically during that time? Did Sisters discuss those? Sr. Claire Regan 22:53 We did. I lived at Mount Carmel at that time then and we did. We were very aware it was a wonderful community. There were ten of us in diverse ministries. So, they were education, employment empowerment with Grace Institute, parish work in inner city communities, parishes, nursing, there were different careers and occupations and a few of the Sisters worked at the agency with me teaching GED and whatever. So, we were very committed to the neighborhood and to the people. So, there was no pushback. There was all kind of collaboration and support and mutual prayer and conversation at dinner and just good support. It was a wonderful community. Angelica Bullock 23:53 Can you talk a little bit about your time as the director of Elizabeth Seton Housing? Sr. Claire E. Regan 23:59 Well, that taught me not to join a committee. Let's see. So, there was this committee, there was this plan. Sr. Florence Speth had built Fox House [homeless shelter for women and children in Harlem, Manhattan, NY] and wanted to do another building. So, a few of us gathered around her because she wanted to do another rehab. And the building became available and was funded by the state, which we were to call Seton House, at 1991 Lexington Avenue on the corner of 121st street. And as I said it was funded $1.4 million by New York State Homeless Housing Program. And it was permanent housing for formerly homeless families. According to the state rules for funding, the families, and we fought also to have individuals, homeless individuals, we fought for that, had to be homeless for at least eight months. That was tough. I said, "Eight months, they're going to unlearn any good habits they might have had, eight months." I could not get that rule to bend at all. So, with a lot of remediation of the families when they were coming back into the community, to really feel they were welcomed, had places to go for help, had the supportive people around them, it was supportive housing, and we had a food cooperative. We had some health fairs at the place. We tried to have tenant meetings to try to build a sense of community. The food co-op met every month and it was called the Share Program. Attended meetings, so I did that for four-and-one-half years. At that point it was stable, fully tenanted, everything. It was fully tenanted within eight months, seven/eight months, fully tenanted. Documented each case, they had shown that they were in what shelter and they had been in at least eight months. So, you had to have all that documentation for the state. And you had to register the rents, so then it was pretty routine at that point. Help the families with their special needs, register the rents, inspect the apartments. activities of daily life for the mothers that needed some help raising their children. We had a little after school program, Sr. Trinita Flood did a little after school program with the children doing their homework when they'd come home. So, they could come to our place after school and be picked up by their parents at Seton House. -8- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 27:00 Let's talk about that. Sr. Claire Regan 27:02 The justice work. It started when I was on a poverty [committee] out of one of the assemblies [election of Congregation Officers], there were committees formed and I was on the poverty committee, and you had to be named to that committee. So, Sisters came to us and said, "I want you to serve on the poverty committee." Then they submitted our names and the council formed these particular committees out of assembly, and I was named to the poverty committee; I think there were seven of us. And in the matter of our coming together and the issues of the times, we said we need to be more effective in our work for justice. So, we created justice effectiveness as the position. Now there had always been a social concerns coordinator before that, so it wasn't per se that different, but then again, it was because it was taking our advocacy into a prime motion. In other words, not just a social concerns weekend once a year or a little update in the 'LeGras Bulletin,' [internal weekly publication featuring Community events and administration news] but really, with phone trees and relays, educating the Sisters on the matters and then not telling them how to vote. But, when it was time for a vote in the Congress and informing them much the way network does, informing them there was a significant vote happening in the Legislature or in the United States Congress, and would they call during that week, their representative. The message was sent on behalf of the poor, this is what we want to see happen. Vote against this or vote for it. But it's pretty much you did the education and then the suggested action. Angelica Bullock 28:44 And under what president was this happening was this ...? Sr. Claire E. Regan 28:50 That would have been Clinton [President Bill Clinton, 1993-2001]. A lot of it was under Clinton. Mr. Bush [President George W. Bush, 2001-2009] and the other first Mr. Bush [President George Bush, 1989-1993]. That was the era that I was in. So, welfare reform was a major piece and the national health care reform, Hillary Clinton [First Lady of the United States, 1993-2001] taking the lead on national health care reform. I went to an invitational meeting in Washington that network put together, what would be the platform for Catholic healthcare to put forward. People from all across the country, there were Sisters who were doctors and professors of health, medical schools and people working at mobile health clinics in Appalachia and I was doing my work in East Harlem, there was just so much going on. So national health care reform was really big, a really big issue at the time and Hillary Clinton was pulling all the pieces together. So, this was the Catholic effort to get a platform together. They had doctors against nuclear war, they had all kinds of people at this invitational to Washington, DC and sponsored by network. And we really fleshed out what we wanted to see in that health care and that was three or four days. We fleshed argued out, yes, no, maybe so, why, why not? And do you know when healthcare actually came out in the Obama time, network had a lot to do with getting that passed. And they were held up in that indoctrination series, they were held up for public scrutiny, because they played a significant role in Canadian national health care passed. -9- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 31:03 Can you explain a little bit what exactly network is? Sr. Claire E. Regan 31:07 Network started in the '70s. It was national health care lobby, Catholic social justice lobby. And it was run by women religious at the time. So, it was a national social justice, Catholic social justice lobby officially registered as lobbyists. Angelica Bullock 31:29 And can you talk about what specifically you and other Sisters were passionate about when it came to healthcare? Sr. Claire E. Regan 31:39 Access for the poor at a reasonable cost. Access was big issue, access. There were so many people with AIDS and drug addicted, and they were not getting any help anywhere, nobody. There was no care for them unless they could pay for it or have insurance. It was really, really, access for the poor and affordability. Angelica Bullock 32:11 I know I'm missing things. Give me one minute. Sr. Claire E. Regan 32:14 I'll give you 5 more minutes. Angelica Bullock 32:16 Do you have anything to add about corporate responsibility? Sr. Claire E. Regan 32:20 Yeah, that was the era of big, big matters of the environment, corporate responsibility. So, the first time I ever heard the word Maquiladora. I went to the first meeting that I went to, and they kept talking about Maquiladora, Maquiladora. And what is that an endangered animal or something? I didn't know what a Maquiladora was. M-A-Q-U-I-L-A-D-O-R-A. It was a factory across the border. And they were using poor Mexicans to make products for Americans and then ship them across the border. So. they were paying no wages and selling high profits in the United States, so it was this whole sense of justice for the Maquiladoras. Well, I thought it was an endangered species, some fur-bearing animal. You know, was funny, my very first meeting, I was totally blown out of the water. You go ICCE, Interface Center for Corporate Responsibility, and these are high-powered folks, up to the signs of the times, well read, talking justice, bang, bang, bang, and it's energizing, but it's also exhausting. But issues of the environment, plastics and chemicals in the water, pollution in the Hudson River was a big matter that we had. Healthcare, the cost of prescription drugs was another area I took a lot of interest in. And then credit access and credit matters, credit cards, lending practices with banks because we're a major banking center here. So, to save money with my budget, I didn't want to travel. - 10 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �I took on healthcare, which was New Jersey-based corporate headquarters, the banks, which were New York based on credit, and credit operations and finance, banking practices, and then the environment. Some of that I took on but I didn't take it on big because those companies were in other parts of the country. Some of the chemical and oil producing, polluting, and they were all around the world, Shell, [Royal Dutch Shell, oil refinery company] those kind of folks. So, I focused more on the pharmaceutical companies, the price of drugs and the banking credit practices and home lending and derivatives and things like that. Angelica Bullock 35:06 I know we're running out of time. I think we have three minutes but, could you discuss a little bit how you and the other Sisters, there was a committee, is that ...? Sr. Claire E. Regan 35:15 The Interfaith Center is a national group, it's a national organization of religious investors. And that's how I first got captured by New Orleans. We went down there and had our annual meeting in New Orleans in 2009. Katrina had hit in 2005. We had our annual conference in 2009. And it took my heart, you know, we were investing in there, we were doing post-disaster investing, looking at it more systemically, post-disaster recovery, and how you finance it and look for justice among the insurance companies and the banks as well as the federal grants mechanisms. So, I went down to New Orleans and went to the different areas and parts of the city and I just fell in love with the city and then the Federation came out with the ministry, the House of Charity, the next year. Actually, the letter came out the next month. So that was June, we had the annual meeting. In July the letter came out inviting Sisters, if they were interested to think about ministry in New Orleans. And I got there, we opened the house January of 2010, and I got there June of 2010. I was there for nine years. Rebuilding was the primary work, volunteer groups doing rebuilding. But I also got involved at peacemaking, working with Mothers who've lost children to violence, that whole sense of community engagement, religious organizing around matters of violence in the city, and then giving bereavement support in my parish to mothers who had lost children in the violence. So that was what I did on the outside. Angelica Bullock 37:21 It kind of seems like there's a transformation. Maybe, but not maybe in your career path where it seems like the work you were previously, most recently doing was more emotional, or more...maybe that's not true. I guess when you're talking about the bereavement counselor. Could you explain maybe... Sr. Claire E. Regan 37:49 I took that training during the days of the AIDS epidemic I took that training because I wanted to help mothers or people coming in who had a family member with AIDS. So that training I had for a long time, but I was applying it in a different circumstance with the violence in New Orleans. I was applying it in a different, in a more concentrated, focused way to a support group of women who were coming together, trying to help each other because they had lost a child to violence. Angelica Bullock 38:27 So, in helping others heal, how or was it a transformative experience for you? I guess helping people through grief. Was it … - 11 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Claire E. Regan 38:48 Rewarding? Well, you have to realize the whole city was screaming, the whole city of New Orleans. So, it was a city in grief; that was part of what called me there. So, I was even in pastoral visiting, there was something that you were touching or hearing or experiencing in the people you met. That was the shared story of Katrina. And it was a new chapter in the city trying to come back. And coming back in ways that people hoped were for the better, which they were in some ways, but they were gentrifying at the same time. Angelica Bullock 39:30 What do you see for the future? New Orleans, maybe in a positive light? Sr. Claire E. Regan 39:39 Oh, yeah, it's positive. And it's wonderful. It's a great place for families for faith, the church in New Orleans is very different than the church in New York. Very pastoral, very committed, going back in families, generations. It's just a whole different reality. New Orleans is a great place. It's got everything going for it. Good food, good music, good people. What more can you need? Angelica Bullock 40:16 Do you have any ending comments that you'd like to add your interview? Sr. Claire E. Regan 40:21 The way I see things going, I met with an associate [lay volunteer working with the Sisters of Charity of New York] last night and our conversation today, the justice agenda is going to take us to new places. So, for instance, the matter of immigration is going to be drawing us physically, emotionally to the madness at the border. You know, we're going to have to get more involved and take little risks. And I think that call to justice for Earth as well, is going to make us put out substance, not just our money, but our lifestyles, behaviors, commitments, relationships, all is going to be rehashed or renewed or made different. Because of what you're looking for is the consistency of your lifestyle with your mission, with the message. And if the message is this time of the Earth, and time of Earth and Earth suffering, as well as the poor suffering economically, ecologically and injustice, ecological injustice. They bear the outcome of people seeking profit at the expense of Earth and the poor suffering, so our mission continues. It will have new armament. Our education, new modes of communication, amplify the message in ways never before. Clinton's daughter Chelsea [daughter of President Bill Clinton and Hilary Clinton] said, "One person can make a movement." Look at Mother Seton, thirty-three sisters in New York when we started. So, you don't need a lot of bodies in this age of communication. You need the heart and the head that come together around the gospel and Christ and the Kingdom. So, it's a great time, right? No lack of challenges. - 12 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai � https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/a74e2d1985f5f5ad9668a16fed3badcf.mp3 0b7a774b5c840c81c077074d4aba61d1 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of New York Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bullock, Angelica Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Regan, Claire E., SC Location The location of the interview Louise Le Gras Hall at Mount Saint Vincent, Bronx, New York Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio/mp3 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 42:27:00 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Regan, Sister Claire E., SC, Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Sister Claire E. Regan, SC Sisters of Charity (New York, N.Y.) Monasticism and religious life of women Health Services Administration St. Vincent's Hospital and Medical Center of New York. Department of Community Medicine Patient representatives AIDS (Disease)--Patients Hurricane Katrina, 2005 Food banks National Council of the Churches of Christ in the United States of America Interfaith Center on Corporate Responsibility Description An account of the resource Inspired by volunteer involvement in her parish, Sr. Claire E. Regan left her career in corporate management prior to entering the Sisters of Charity in 1982, at the age of 29. During her varied ministry experiences, she lobbied regarding food insecurity, homelessness and the need for improved healthcare for the poor. During the challenges of the AIDS epidemic and drug wars of the 1980s-1990s, she served as an administrator in several metropolitan New York hospitals. As Director of Elizabeth Seton Housing and later in post-Katrina New Orleans, Sr. Claire worked with a national organization of religious investors to address accountability for health insurance companies, banks and federal grant mechanisms. Sr. Claire was a Councilor in Leadership at Mount Saint Vincent from 2019-2023. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sisters of Charity of New York Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of New York Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-07-30 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mindy Gordon (Transcriber, Editor) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for reproduction or quotation must be obtained through written application to: Director of Archives, Sisters of Charity of New York, 6301 Riverdale Avenue, Bronx, New York, 10471. This permission is valid only insofar as the Archives of the Sisters of Charity of New York, as owner or custodian, has any rights in the matter and does not remove the responsibility of the author, editor, and publisher to guard against the infringement of any rights; including copyright, that may be held by others. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/wav application/pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Regan, Claire E., SC Oral History Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant New York City Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Sisters of Charity of New York AIDS Healthcare Sisters of Charity of New York https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/58c491bf6fc07923a300a7c6013a2d7e.jpg 973c4a96574fe29c1402afc903d147fe Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of New York Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bullock, Angelica Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed King, Sister Rita, SC Location The location of the interview Convent of Mount Saint Vincent Bronx, New York Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio/mp3 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 54:50:00 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource King, Sister Rita, SC, Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Sister Rita King, SC Description An account of the resource As an educator and archivist, Sr. Rita King's career has been steeped in the pursuit of history. A former high school teacher, Dean and Principal, Sr. Rita was Congregation Archivist for over 15 years. During this time, she developed an arrangement by record group of archival materials and created a database of Sisters' records that became an essential research tool. Involved in the early development of the Archivists for Congregations of Women Religious (ACWR), she served a two-year term as President. Retired since 2008, Sr. Rita provides her thoughts about the role of an archivist, training and archival certification. completion of the Community. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sisters of Charity of New York Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of New York Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-07-30 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mindy Gordon (Transcriber, Editor) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for reproduction or quotation must be obtained through written application to: Director of Archives, Sisters of Charity of New York, 6301 Riverdale Avenue, Bronx, New York, 10471. This permission is valid only insofar as the Archives of the Sisters of Charity of New York, as owner or custodian, has any rights in the matter and does not remove the responsibility of the author, editor, and publisher to guard against the infringement of any rights; including copyright, that may be held by others. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/wav application/pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context King, Rita SC, Oral History Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant New York City Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Sisters of Charity of New York https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/9ca353720ebeb78068a834f7104ca1a0.jpg 34d1253e5dc88b3bdb5d188a1a13cccc https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/a876822c2c63d8007b23a6dd08903225.pdf b9202377ff53898f62a158ea7e14a0e3 PDF Text Text Sister Ann George, SCN: A Profile …He (God) Comes, Comes, Ever Comes Have you not heard His (God’s) silent steps? He (God) comes, comes, ever comes. Every moment and every age, every day and every night he comes, comes, ever comes. Many a song have I sung in many a mood of mind, but all their notes have always proclaimed, “He comes, comes, ever comes.” … and it is the golden touch of God’s feet that makes my joy to shine. (​Ravindranath Tagore, Poem 45​) As I was getting ready to jot down the story of my life, the above poem flashed through my mind. This poem means much to me. As my story unfolds, you (the readers of my story), will recognize the “songs” I have sung, “in many a mood of mind” and how they have been the instruments of my enlightened human experiences; hence, truly my God-experiences. Now I would like to invite you to accompany me into my early childhood. Coconut and areca nut palms, banana plants and coffee bushes, mango, cashew and jackfruit trees, pineapple and tapioca plants, wild bushes and vines with red, yellow, purple and white blossoms in season, adorn a plot of land by the side of a running brook at Mallikassery in Kottayam district, Kerala, India. In the middle of this land stands a medium sized house with wide verandas on three sides of it. This is my home from the time I, Annamma Mukalel, was a year old. Earlier my family lived at another location in the same village on a small hillock overlooking the same brook and a vast expanse of paddy field with a narrow canal flowing through the middle of it. This canal known as ponnozhukan ​thodu (​ponnu = gold, ​ozhakan = flowing, ​thodu = canal) meets the brook at the northern tip of our land and eventually merges with the Meenachil River. Legend has it that this canal got its name ‘​ponnozhukan thodu’ because a large brass vessel full of gold flowed through it many, many years ago! A section of the bank of this canal close to our land has been the meeting place of several of our neighbours, especially children. They frequented the canal for bathing, swimming, washing clothes, catching fish, etc. During the summer months, the best friend of most of the children of our village also bathed in this canal every Sunday. Guess who? A huge tame elephant! There was always a good crowd to see him. The finale of his bath was worth watching. After getting his large body scrubbed by the mahout and his assistants, the elephant would stand up and breathe in a lot of water into his trunk and sprinkle it all over his body. Then, he would walk out of the canal majestically with shining skin, sparkling eyes, and partially open mouth as if to smile at all his admirers! 1 �Having situated myself at home and described my surroundings, let me introduce my family. I, Annamma, am the youngest of the seven children of Mr. Varkey and Mrs. Aleykutty Varkey Mukalel. According to seniority, we are Devasia (deceased), Mathew (deceased), Aleykutty, Sebastian (Pappachan), Mariakutty, Kunjannamma (deceased). I am fondly called Koche (baby) by my elders and siblings. My parents were grief-stricken at the loss of their three children at the tender ages of two months, seven years, and two years respectively. I did not have the privilege of being with any of them as all of them had gone to heaven before my birth. Born on January 16, 1940, I was baptised at St. Xavier’s Church, Vilakkumadom in the diocese of Chenganassery on January 20, 1940. In 1949, the Chenganassery diocese was divided, and we came under the Palai diocese. Our parish was divided in 1953, and St. Thomas Church Mallikassery became our new parish. The political situation in the world was very tense during my early childhood. Because I was born during World War II, I was given the name ‘war baby’. Since I was the youngest in the family and my older siblings were at school, I was often with my parents as they worked on our family farm for several hours every day. While they were at work, I played with the calves and kids in the field; also, went on nature rambles. During some of these nature walks, I enjoyed breaking off pineapples from our pineapple plants and eating them with my parents. Playing teacher to the coconut trees and coffee bushes around my home was a past-time for me. Wearing a lungi (a long piece of cloth) as sari, I wrote some numbers on the wooden wall of our house with charcoal and with a stick in hand, I taught the trees arithmetic. Of course, writing on the wall with charcoal didn’t go very well with my parents. Eventually, I had to scrub it off the wall and resort to teaching the trees only mental arithmetic. My parents were devout Catholics. They woke up early in the morning and prayed for a long time every day. We, children, had a shorter morning prayer. All of us prayed the evening prayer together. By the time I started school, my sister, Aleykutty, and brother, Sebastian, whom I called Appachan affectionately, had already completed their middle school education. In June 1946, I was enrolled as Annamma M.V. (Mukalel Varkey) at St. Teresa’s Middle School, Vilakkumadom, run by the Third Order of Carmelites (Discalced). My sister, Mariakutty, was already in the same school in Class II. I caught up with her in Class III because she was a slow learner. I received First Holy Communion at the age of seven. It was a memorable day. After Mass, the forty communicants had breakfast together, another joy for us. My brother, Pappachan, and my elder sister, Aleykutty, were settled in life by December 1948. My paternal grandfather was part of our family. In 1950, my youngest uncle took him to his home for a 2 �few months. While there, our grandfather fell ill suddenly and expired in a few days. My parents had a Gregorian Mass (Mass offered for a deceased person for thirty consecutive days) offered for him. I was privileged to participate in it daily. We missed our grandfather so much. Things went on smoothly for us until late 1951. During the Onam (harvest festival of Kerala) holidays, my sister, Mariakutty suffered from a fever. She was treated in the best hospital close to our home. Though the medical team did all they could to revive her, she could not be saved. We were told that she died of a brain tumour. Within a few hours her body was brought home. The school community, Sisters, teachers and students streamed to our house from early morning until late afternoon to bid goodbye to my beloved sister. It was a grand tribute to her. The funeral took place only at 5.00 pm. It took us a very long time to get over the loss of my sister. The next three years of school at St. Teresa’s were very memorable and pleasant. We were active in the Sodality and the Mission League. Helping the poor and raising funds for the missions were some of our favourite activities. We shared our lunch with children who did not bring anything to eat at tiffin time. On our way to school, I would give alms to a leprosy patient who lived in a very small hut. The Carmelite Sisters were real role models for us. Participating in the thirteen-hour adoration in the Carmelite chapel was a heavenly experience. Every year, I made the retreat for the students. We kept total silence during the retreat and prayed many rosaries and ejaculations during our free time. There was a spiritual atmosphere at home, too. During my time in the middle school, especially in Class VIII, I felt the promptings of the Spirit to become a religious. Love for the holy was nurtured in me by my family, especially by my mother, the Sisters in my school, the parish priest, friends, etc. From Class I onwards, we had catechism classes in the school on week days and on Sundays after the second Mass. One of the prizes I received in the diocesan level catechism exam was a biography of St. Teresa of Avila. This book had a great influence on me. My mother was very much devoted to St. Theresa of Lisieux (The Little Flower). The school Sisters also perpetuated the devotion to both Teresa of Avila and the Little Flower. In June 1954, I began my high school studies at St. Joseph High School, Vilakkumadom, a co-ed school with only male teachers at that time. By now, life was more interesting at home with the addition of three lively nephews. My high school headmaster was a priest. The students were well behaved and good at studies. Though there were no religious on the staff, we had catechism classes after school hours. The teachers were exemplary and helped us to imbibe sound values. We enjoyed annual cultural competitions and the Labour Week. During the Labour Week, all had to do some kind of manual work. The teachers worked along with the students. In the afternoons we had cultural programs. On one of those days, we held a “Parliament session” with the students and teachers. All enjoyed and learnt much from this activity. The three years of high school flew by, and it was time for the matriculation examination in March 1957. All students of our school passed this examination with good marks. I was privileged to be among the three students of our school who passed in First Division. Securing a First Division was a rare honour in those days. Among the 3 �twenty-one girls in our class, fourteen were Catholics and all except two joined various religious Congregations. After the publication of the matric results, one day when I went for my regular confession, the priest asked me what I was going to do next. I told him of my desire to become a religious and of my family’s financial difficulties to send me to a convent during that year, but that they would let me join any convent in the following year. The priest sent for my brother that very day. When they met, the priest told my brother that it would be better for me to join a convent that year and that he would find a way to help him out. When my brother relayed this to my parents, they also agreed to let me go to a mission the same year. Looking back, I believe that it was a direct intervention of God in my life. God called me to religious life in “God’s own time” and saw that it was done! It was June 1957. My decision to go to the missions was inspired by Sister Mary Joseph Pamplaniel, SCN who had joined the SCNs in the previous year. She was my parishioner and a member of my school. Trusting in God, I wrote a letter to Sister Lawrencetta Veeneman, requesting her to let me join the SCNs in June 1957. She responded to my request positively. I left for Mokama on July 3, 1957, the feast of St. Thomas, along with a group of nursing students of Nazareth Hospital who were on their home visit. The final goodbye to my people at the railway station was very painful but the determination to follow Jesus was stronger! The journey to Mokama was comfortable. On my arrival at Nazareth Hospital, Mokama on July 7, 1957, Sister Florence Joseph (Mary Frances Sauer) and Sister Lawrencetta extended me a warm welcome. I was accommodated with the staff nurses from Kerala for a few days. Sister Crescentia Wise took me to Nazareth Academy, Gaya, on July 12, 1957, to join the senior candidates, Annamma Joseph and Lilly Rita Thundiyil. There were six American Sisters, among them, two of the SCN pioneers – Sister Charles Miriam Holt and Sister Ann Roberta Powers. A full time teacher at Nazareth Academy, Gaya, Sister Patricia Mary Kelley was our director. She kept us well occupied in the school. Annamma Joseph (from now on Anne Marie Thayilchirayil) and Lilly Rita Thundiyil (from now on Teresa Martin) were my companions. They were in Gaya six months ahead of me. Since two of us had the name Annamma, to avoid confusion, I was called Anna Mary until I got my religious name Sister Ann George Mukalel on the day of our vestition. We, candidates, attended the science classes, taught by Sister James Leo Goldsborough along with the students of Class X. After school hours, Sister Patricia taught us classes in English, community history, and general instruction. We read several supplementary English books to improve our comprehension and vocabulary. We had piano lessons once a week, and practiced cycling, too. On January 6, 1958, we, Anne Marie, Lilly Thundiyil, Aleykutty Kuriakose, Rose Augustine and I entered postulancy at Mokama. Sister Lawrencetta was the director of postulants and novices. Our days were well-balanced with prayer, classes, manual work, recreation and games. On weekdays, we ate lunch after the reading from the Martyrology for the day, then had recreation. This reading quite often ended up in “peels of laughter”. The routine in the novitiate was almost 4 �the same as that of the postulancy except for the study of SCN Constitutions and the Book of Customs. On Sundays we also taught catechism to the women parishioners of Mokama. Once a month, we visited Catholic families in the villages. This was a small way of connecting with the parishioners. On some moon-lit nights, after supper, Sister Lawrencetta took us for a walk to the shrine to watch the different constellations of stars, and, a few times, to fish in the shrine pond with fishing rods and hooks. They were real treats for us! Sister Lawrencetta was loving, understanding and genuinely interested in those under her care. We loved her. After making an eight-day retreat, we made our first vows on the feast of St. Thomas on December 21, 1960. My first mission was to Nazareth Academy, Gaya, and my companion was Sister Ignatius Marie (Annemarie) Thayilchirayil. After a year of teaching at the Academy, we were sent to Patna Women’s College, Patna for the one-year pre-university studies. In August 1962, I, along with Ignatius Marie, was sent to the Motherhouse, Nazareth, to continue our college studies at Nazareth College, KY. Along with our college studies, we also followed the juniorate program for the temporary professed Sisters at Nazareth under the guidance of Sister Mary Rosine Callahan. She was a saintly person who went out of her way to provide us every opportunity to grow in holiness. There were eighty of us in the juniorate as we first started the program. On every first Sunday we were taken to Bellarmine College, Louisville, to attend the Biblical Institutes conducted by Father Carrol Steumuller and team. Our pre-university marks were recognized by Nazareth College. So, we completed the four-year college studies in three years. In preparation for final vows we had to make an eight-day retreat. On the feast of St. Thomas, December 21, 1965, we made our final vows in the presence of over 200 SCNs. We also had the rare privilege of eating breakfast with Mother Ann Sebastian, Mother Bertrand, Mother Lucille and the General Councillors at a specially decorated table in the middle of the Motherhouse refectory. During the first year of my graduate studies, I stayed with the college community of Sisters while attending classes at Catherine Spalding College in Louisville. I had the privilege to be with the Presentation Community during the second year. I received the Master’s Degree in Education from Catherine Spalding College in May 1967. On our way back to India, we had the privilege of visiting Rome. After a short visit home, I was assigned to Mokama to take care of the candidates. There were ten candidates in the group and I enjoyed being with them. I was appointed teacher at Nazareth Academy, Gaya in June 1968. During this assignment I taught from Classes IV to VIII in the English medium section. I began teaching as a class teacher of Class IV. The class four had such a disparity in learning ability. I asked Sister James Leo Goldsborough, the principal, to divide the class into two groups according to their scholastic ability. I took the weaker section of the students. Except for Hindi and Sanskrit, I taught them all subjects giving them various types of learning experiences. They were taught creatively, and by the end of the year, both classes performed well. This is one of my success stories as a teacher. ​In June 1970, I was happy to have Sister 5 �Anne Marie Thayilchirayil, my candidate companion, as my principal (the first Indian principal of Nazareth Academy, Gaya.) One time, I gave a project to the students of Class VI to recognize the non-teaching staff of the school. The students decided to honour them with a program and lunch. It was a great success; all appreciated it, and, for years, it continued as Worker’s Day. I also encouraged my students to help the children of the fourth class employees. We started with a boy with dwarfism and slowly had close to ten children. Later, they were incorporated into the non-formal classes conducted by Sister Sunita Vayalipara, SCN. The non-formal school has been well set up since then. I also initiated a project with the students to articulate who God was to them and the attributes they gave to God. After consulting their parents, the elders at home, and, their spiritual gurus, they enumerated the values which they hold. After a group discussion, they made the decision to hold those values which the whole class held in common. We made a creed expressing what we believe as a whole – Hindus, Muslims, Christians and Sikhs. We framed it, hung it in our class, then carried it forward to the next class as I was also promoted to the next class with the same group of children. It took us almost six months to complete the project. For social and cultural awareness, they also studied the important local places such as the post office, railway station, important temples, etc. Students wrote something on each place of importance they found and made a file with the information. They also gathered autographed photographs of important national leaders. For group work, students were encouraged to write scripts for plays which they acted out. For stories, I used to give students two or three characters and they were encouraged to write a story on those characters. I was privileged to accompany this same group of students up to Class IX, and, that year, I got another ministry assignment. On one occasion, an Anglo Indian boy named Peter brought two pupae of butterflies, each of which he placed in a glass jar with tops with tiny holes and kept them on the open book shelf. After a few days, while the class was in session, Peter’s attention was on one of the pupae which was coming out of the jar. Suddenly, a beautiful butterfly came out. Peter opened the lid of the bottle and the butterfly flew around in the classroom. We closed the doors and windows and watched the newly born butterfly; within seconds we noticed a butterfly emerge in the second jar! It was still in the bottle. The children’s joy knew no bounds. All were clapping hands, talking, laughing and shouting. After ten to fifteen minutes we freed those beautiful butterflies into the open space. I put the students into groups of five where they could choose some way of expressing what they saw in poems, stories, paragraphs, little skits, etc. They showed their creations to the neighbouring class! From June 1975 to June 1978, I served as the Education Director of the India province. I visited ​all the SCN-owned and administered schools to give in-service training for the teachers who needed it. During this time there was an undertaking from the Congregation to evaluate the SCN-owned schools and to spell out our philosophy of education. It took a long time. Sister Dorothy MacDougall, SCN, was part of this process. With her help, we were able to draw up our philosophy of education. In 1978, I had a one-month renewal in Topchanji near Gomoh with a group of SCNs. 6 �I was appointed principal of Nazareth Academy, Gaya, in June 1978. Getting Nazareth Academy recognized by the Central Board of Secondary Education (CBSE) was our priority at that time. The first requirement for this recognition was to obtain the “No Objection Certificate” (OBC) from the State Education Board. We had to cross many hurdles to get this done. Once the OBC was obtained, the rest of the recognition procedures were speeded up. And finally, thank goodness, the school got the recognition from CBSE, Delhi in May 1981. I tried to keep up the excellence of the school by having various activities for both the students and teachers. One year for parent’s day, students wrote original poems and recited them in front of their parents. Since it was parents’ day, the presentation was well-received. A team of our high school students won the science trophy in the inter-state science competitions held in Calcutta. Both the staff and students exhibited a high degree of cooperation, family spirit and patriotism. In January 1985, I was appointed to Nazareth Convent, Ranchi. Keeping Nazareth Convent as my base, I helped out in the ministry places where there was a need for my presence. I taught in St. Xavier’s School, Mokama, for a few months. Then, I taught at St. Michael’s School, Sale, Mahuadanr as substitute for Sister Suma Muthukattuparampil. Though many of the students were poor, they were good at studies. I enjoyed teaching them. The teachers were very cooperative. We lived in Kutuderi in a mud house. We had lots of fun in the community. Once a week, the Sisters cycled nine kilometres to Mahuadanr to purchase vegetables. We lived happily with the very minimum. In fact, if we had a ​kadhu ​(a kind of gourd) for a meal, it had the status of a feast day! I was very happy to live in the village among the local people. There was a lot of “give and take” among them. They did not hesitate to ask the neighbour to get something they actually needed. We participated whole-heartedly in the parish activities. I was very inspired by the sharing of the village catechists during their biweekly get together. Towards the end of 1985, I stayed in Mandair for a month and took part in the activities of the Sisters. Sister Philomena Kottoor used to go to very distant villages on bicycle to take care of the sick people; she also taught good health habits. Sisters Pauline Paraplackal and Hilda Lobo taught the children at the parish school. One day Sister Philomena fell from the bicycle and got a deep cut in her chin. She stitched that wound courageously by looking in a mirror. What will-power! What sacrifices the Sisters make to live in such remote areas for the sake of the poor. I used to visit the nearby villages with the Sisters. I still remember the picnic we had for the farewell that the Sisters gave their parish priest. The venue was the banks of a nearby stream close to the forest. Some young boys of our neighbourhood carried our supplies and a home-grown cock for lunch. On our way to the stream, the priest bought four birds from a group of boys who had gone hunting. Though the legs of the cock were tied with a string, the cock untied it by pecking on it while we were eating our breakfast. When we looked at the cock, we saw him walking freely and finally flying over to the other side of the stream. The priest and the boys crossed the slippery rocky stream to search for the him. After an hour they returned empty handed. The cock had gone into the thick jungle. We prepared the four birds for lunch. The funny thing was that some people close to the jungle told the boys that they could hear the crowing of the cock from a distance. For a 7 �week, the village boys looked for that cock. After a week nobody heard his crowing. It was probably eaten by a wild animal. A week later when the Sisters from Gaya entered the village for a picnic, they sang very loudly a Hindi song, ‘​Gaonwallo, apne murgi samplao’ (villagers, protect your chickens) which was very appropriate at the time. In the village, people enjoyed things in common. For example, as they walked by the peanut or corn field they would pick a head of corn or pull out a peanut plant to eat; no one minded that. Early in the morning, before the boys took the cattle for grazing they made fire in a small pot for light and warmth during winter. They carried it around and we could see these small lights coming from different directions and hear the sound of the bells tied around the neck of the cattle. From January 1986, I taught the college-going candidates in Ranchi for three years. In the same year, I spent two weeks at home with my father who was seriously ill. Since I was missing the classes for the candidates, I felt obliged to go back to Ranchi as soon as possible. So I told my father that I was thinking of going back to Ranchi soon. Then he told me, “Don’t go.” He was bed-ridden for four years. I was in a dilemma as to what to do. I left my father saying that I would return soon. I really thought in case he gets worse; surely there would be time for me to see him once more. Within two weeks, on September 1, 1986, I got word that he was no more. There was no way that I could reach home before the funeral. I, “my father’s sweet baby”, could not be with him in his last moments. Still, I have the satisfaction of having been with him for two weeks, attending to him and being with my mother, in those days of suffering. In 1988, I attended a three-month renewal program at Sadhana Institute in Lonavala, Pune. With thoughts of changing from teaching to social service, I discerned and volunteered to be in Ararghat in January 1989. Sisters Bridget Vadakeattam and Sunita Vayalipara were engaged in health, non-formal education and other social services. Before I reached there, a cow shed belonging to Mohan Murmu had been made into a liveable room. In one corner of the room, a little space was partitioned with a bamboo and straw screen for one person to stand and cook. At the other end of the room, we made a bamboo shelf to keep our rolled bedding. During the day, a chowki, the wooden bed was used by us and the people to sit. We had a wooden stool for three of us to sit on. There was a small medicine cabinet near the door to keep the emergency medicines. To fully open our tiny door we had to move the things around. Though we had very limited material things to live in, we were happy that we were one with the people in the locality. In fact, some of the people in the village had better houses than we had. There, I joined with Sister Sunita in the non-formal education of children. The villagers built a very small shed for the children to gather for classes. Some of the children were enrolled in the local school, but most were not. They all came in the morning for an hour of class. In the afternoon, the boys grazed their animals in the nearby fields sitting on their buffalos. The girls cut grass to feed the animals. We could hear them singing the nursery rhymes we had taught them. Sister Sunita conducted the government sponsored cutting and tailoring training for women and young girls in another house close by. While the mothers attended the class, I took their small 8 �children for literacy classes. We spent a lot of time in government offices for this kind of projects. We travelled by all modes of transportation such as trucks, tractors, ​tum-tum (horse cart) and, sometimes, by the very crowded buses. Our most often-travelled bus was ​Hawa-​ ​hawai​, (fast running) bus with the speed of 30 kilometres per hour. It had a few seats in the front and one long seat at the back with nothing to hold on to. By the time we could board, the bus would be almost full, and we sat on the back seat. With every brake, our head hit the ceiling. I remember falling into a mud-pot of curd. People took their animals also in the same bus. Once I saw a goat eat up a small mango plant from a man who was taking it to plant in his field. The nearest Mass station was seventy kilometres away in Saharsa at The Indian Missionary Society (IMS). Only once a month did we go for Mass since travel every week was tedious and expensive. The IMS priests were so extremely hospitable to us in that they gave us one of the two rooms they had. Their house was a second home to us during our travels. They helped us in every way possible. A year later, Sister Bridget moved out of Ararghat. The IMS priests introduced us to the district development officer of Saharsa. Though we worked in another district, we volunteered to take up the government poultry project for twenty-eight families in Saharsa district in March 1990. We organized the women to undertake the project since most of the men were alcoholics. I was the contact person between the government and the women, and Sunita continued with the programs in Ararghat. Twice a week she visited me and stayed with me for a day or two. We hired a supervisor to help the women get all the materials for making the poultry house as per the government requirement. Before dispatching the first batch of fifty chicks and feed, the women were given training to take care of the chicks. On the very first day itself, one or two families lost more than half of their chicks. Though the women had the training, they were not used to taking care of the white leghorns. A veterinary doctor ​administered some antibiotics, and the situation was under control. I moved from house to house to supervise that the right amount of feed, water and warmth was available to the chicks. The women kept questioning, “What kind of chicks are these?” They also could not understand why the chicken house had to be kept clean. The women had to clean their hands and feet before they entered the chicken house; all the feeding containers also had to be clean. Within one and a half-months, the chicks were ready for sale. There wasn’t much demand for this kind of meat. There was a middle man who really cheated them. Though I confronted him twice, he got wind of my coming and escaped. If the chickens were not sold at the right time, nobody would buy an overgrown chicken. Each family made a profit above Indian rupees 2000/- which was deposited in the women’s bank accounts. When we went there for the first time, most of the people had only one meal a day. By the time we left the place, the women could afford two decent meals a day. After the project work, we returned to Ararghat. During our free time, we visited families in our village and in nearby villages. In December 1992, I went to Nazareth, KY as a delegate for the General Assembly. There, I developed severe spondylitis and was asked to have a surgery just before I was to leave for India in January 1993. I returned to India and was under the treatment of Doctor Mukhopadhyay in Patna. 9 �Meanwhile, I got word that my only brother was seriously ill and in the intensive care unit (ICU). Hope for his recovery was minimal, and he was shifted from the ICU to the ward. Four of his charismatic friends, along with others, prayed over him. He showed signs of recovery and was shifted to the ICU where he recovered fast. When my family thanked the people who prayed for my brother, they said that one of your other family members with spondylitis is also healed. And I am that person who felt the healing touch of God through prayer. Thanks be to God! For a few days, I went back to Ararghat in February 1993, to get my things. I went to Narayan Chowk, Dharan in Nepal, to teach in the school for a year. The school was up to class three. Having a few students in a class, the atmosphere was homey and I could experiment many things with them. On parents’ day, the students received their parents, served them refreshments, and made them feel comfortable. The program was like a television broadcast. A big television was made out of a cardboard box, and all items were related to the subjects they had in the classroom. One of the drills was in geometrical shapes, right angles, squares, etc. The students dressed up as two or three famous mathematicians and interviewed them. They had the song on the solar system in the tune, “Here we go round the mulberry bush” and sang “Here we go round the glowing sun”. Parents enjoyed the program so much that it was a special parents’ day. Most of the fathers of the children worked in Hong Kong, and mothers took care of the children. I learned some Nepali to communicate with the people. In December 1993, I was elected assistant provincial of the India Province. I came to Patna in May from Dharan. June 1, 1994 was the day of installation for the new leadership team of the province. The newly elected province leadership members had a few days of team-building sessions in September. In the midst of this session, I got word that my mother expired on September 2, 1994. I did not go home for the funeral. I assisted Sister Bridget Kappalumakal as her assistant to the best of my ability. During this time, the province closed down two missions, Hilsa and Biharsharif in Bihar, and bought land in Almora. We also opened a new house in Kakkavayal in Kerala. After being in Provincial leadership, I had a six-week scripture course along with SCNs Bridget Kappalumakal and Sister Mary Joseph at the Charismatic Retreat Centre in Potta, Kerala. After a home visit, I went to Ranchi to teach in the formation program and to be in-charge of the student candidates in June 1999 for two years. In June 2001, I volunteered to go to Surkhet to be with Rosita Kavilpurayidathil, SCN. I joined her in social service programs such as self-help groups for women, cutting and tailoring for a year. In 2002, I was advised to have an angiogram done in Delhi by our doctors in Mokama. Before I left Mokama, Sister Xavier Valiakunnackal (now deceased) prayed over me. When the consultant doctor at Stephens’ Hospital, Delhi examined me, he said that I did not need an angiogram. He put me on medication and wanted to observe me for the following two months. During this waiting period, I visited Almora mission. I was fortunate to visit some of the villages in Almora and enjoyed the cool weather of the hills. 10 �I left Delhi in August 2002, and went back to Surkhet for a month. In April 2003, I was appointed teacher at Gyan Deep Vidyalaya in Birsanagar, Jamshedpur. I taught various subjects such as English and Moral Science from Classes IV to IX. It was a challenge and joy for me to be with the children of the low income group and to give them my best. Our desire was that the students work up to their abilities to become somebody in life. The teachers were excellent and had a goal to empower the children. The students, teachers and the principal worked together as one group. We developed the school philosophy, vision and mission. We got ample financial and educational support from the Tata Companies especially Telecon, Tata Steel, Tata Motors, etc. Telecon initiated a ‘​Jagriti’ (​ awakening) ​program under the leadership of Mr. Peter Banerjee for the Hindi Medium schools of Jamshedpur city. A week-long program of competitions in speech, drama, art, singing, dancing, debate, and quizzes in general knowledge and other subjects were held for those schools every year. Selected children were brought to Gyan Deep Vidyalaya for the finals. These activities made the children self-confident and developed a healthy competitive spirit. By the time the students left our school, every child was on the stage to perform confidently one time or the other. As we had a well-planned school program for the development of the students, all teachers worked hard to help them reach their goals and improve a little more than they had earlier performed. Some of the teachers sponsored the educational expenses of children from poor families. The school had built up a family spirit. I stayed in Birsanagar till 2010, and it was one of my golden years of teaching experience, and my golden jubilee year, too. In 2007, I was elected a board member. In June 2010, as part of the experimentation for the bifurcation of India Province, I stayed in Snehalayam, Trichy, for two years. Josita Eniakattu, SCN, stayed with the Chandapura community. When I had nothing special to do for the province, I helped out in St. Vincent Matriculation School till 2012. In June 2012, I joined Nazareth Academy, the new English medium school inaugurated in April during our bicentennial year as a gift for the people of Mokama. The school began with twenty-six pre-school children, senior and junior kindergarten. New students kept coming, and, by year end, we had close to forty children. Though Sister Rena Simon Fernandes, SCN, the principal, stayed in Gaya and supervised the school, very often I was the acting principal till December 2012. Classes were held in St. Xavier’s School from April to December 2012 while the old Nazareth Hospital building was being remodelled for a primary and kindergarten school. In November, when I showed the remodelled classrooms to one student’s parents, their eyes shined and faces glowed. “Can there be any school building like this in Mokama!”, they exclaimed. This was the first time that anyone had seen the inside of the building. In January 2013, students were brought to the new site and they were delighted. Children touched the fruits on the tiles of the walls and some of them kissed various interesting pictures. Sister Rena joined the school in January 2013, and the school started to function as a regular school. Every year, a class was added, and, now, the school has reached up to Class VII with over six hundred students. 11 �Every year teachers were given in-service training. We have taken it as our own responsibility to make the school the best in the locality. We wish for our students to imbibe sound values and love God and their neighbour. It was the desire of the people in Mokama to have an English School run by the Sisters. Most of the parents are non-English speaking people. From the beginning of the school until now, no leaf was left unturned to make the students academically excellent. I have been at Nazareth Academy, Mokama, from June 2012 up to the present, teaching students, mentoring teachers, organizing extra-curricular activities for students, and helping them to exhibit their talents through dramas, speeches, exhibitions, quizzes, etc. I also helped to select and purchase books for the school library and helped the librarian to organize the books. I am still attached to the school. So many golden opportunities enabled me to interact lovingly with our Sisters in the Western Province. As a junior Sister, I had the privilege of living with eighty Juniors in the Juniorate in the 1960s at Nazareth for three years. Some of them were older than I, a few others younger, and the majority were of my age! We prayed together, ate together, had recreation together; some of us attended college classes together. We had opportunities to share with one another our inner joys and struggles; also, we had opportunities to mingle with other SCNs when they came to Nazareth for summer school. We got acquainted with many of them; we also got to know some of them more closely. I got to know some of our SCN professors during informal gatherings. Experience of SCNs during our temporary missions was another way of getting strongly bonded in the SCN Family. In later years, after the college studies, there were many opportunities to meet with the SCNs from the Western Province, and the bonds became stronger. I am proud to say that I know many SCNs of the Western Province personally; it has made a great difference in my life! Thinking congregationally has become second nature to me. I thank God for the SCN Congregation! Love you all, my dear Sisters! Strong bonds exist between the SCNs of Patna and Bangalore Province, too. I don’t experience that we are in two provinces in India. Let us continue to thank God for calling us to the SCN Congregation! Books and Persons who influenced me: ​Mahatma Gandhi; Saint Alphonsa; Saint Vincent de Paul and Mother Catherine Spalding; Martin Luther King Jr.; Saint Mother Teresa of Kolkata Books:​ The Bible Books on Mother Mary Lives of Saints Seven Storey Mountains​ by Thomas Merton Man’s Search for Meaning​ by ​Viktor E. Frankl Abraham Lincoln: A Spiritual Biography​ by Elton Trueblood Inspirational Books by modern authors like Sudha Murty, Paulo Coelho, etc. Religious Life: A call to Holiness; Articles, homilies and Collection of poems/stories God Experiences: ​a) After one month retreat; b) After Confession every time; c) During Meditation; d) Sharing with friends​ ​and during hard times I resort to prayer, spiritual direction and letting go. 12 �Faith experiences: I know a woman who for over twenty years suffered from menstrual cramps. She was treated for it by various doctors, but got only temporary relief. One of the gynaecologists whom she consulted had told her that she would need a surgery by the time she would reach her mid-thirties. When she was about thirty-three years old she had an opportunity to be prayed over by a charismatic preacher, Reverend Father Jim Borst. As soon as the woman described her problem to this priest he told her, “Jesus wants you to be cured of this pain.” The woman believed that Jesus would cure her. Father Borst prayed over her for complete relief from the cramps. The woman waited in faith to experience the healing in the following month and, sure enough, the miracle took place. She was healed! Praise God! She lives with deep gratitude to God for this healing and glorifies God by telling others about the marvel Jesus wrought in her life. And who is this woman? It is none other than the narrator of this story, Sister Ann George Mukalel. One day in 1990, while I was monitoring a poultry farming project for the poor villagers of Naya Nagar in Saharsa district of Bihar, I was returning from the market in a cycle rickshaw with some chicken feed, a few vegetables and a large sum of money from the bank which belonged to the beneficiaries of the project. Before entering the village of the target group, I had to cross a short bridge on the main road. This bridge is in a lonely area. When my rickshaw crossed that bridge a short, fat young man who was hiding under the bridge walked over to my rickshaw briskly and stopped the rickshaw. There was no other soul around. I was petrified. He asked the rickshaw puller what was in the big bundle on the rickshaw. I told him that there was some chicken feed for the poultry farm and some vegetables. He stared at me for a while and then told the rickshaw that he could proceed to the village. It was a real miracle that he did not search the bags carefully. God didn’t let him see the poor people’s precious savings. God protects us when we are in vulnerable situations. Such moments of grace are in store for all of us when we place ourselves in God’s hands. An amusing, yet frightening, incident happened when I was going to the Block Development officer’s residence to get a necessary permission regarding the aforementioned poultry farming project. I had to cross a large, paddy field where cows, oxen, buffalos, goats, etc. were grazing freely. There was nobody with those animals. It was a hot day, and so, I opened my red umbrella. A buffalo began to chase me. Little did I realize that my red umbrella had stirred up fear in the buffalo causing it to chase me. Immediately, I closed the umbrella and used it as a weapon to fend myself. Suddenly, the buffalo turned the other way and ran for its life. God gave me the awareness that the red colour of the umbrella irritated that creature and once the umbrella was closed, it was at ease. My life, also, like those of most people, has had its sunny, cloudy and rainy days, especially in mid-life. Personality clashes, misunderstandings, etc. marred the tranquillity of life. Retreats, renewals, meditations, reflections and readings helped me to look at myself more realistically without condemning myself or others. Life has taught me that all have rights and duties and I need to respect them. Also, I must let others grow as they are directed by their inner voice. Living this thought pattern has helped me to love and reverence my sisters and brothers. After having had 13 �healthy dialogues with other people, I now better realize that they have the right to hold their opinions or belief systems. I try not to force my view of anything of importance on others. I keep in touch with the former students of Nazareth Academy, Gaya, and Gyan Deep Vidyalaya, Birsanagar through alumnae associations. I have gathered treasures by having relationships with strangers especially the poor en route to the village of our beneficiaries in Naya Nagar. Our mere presence made an impact in their lives. People would stop to talk to us, smile at us and even in the overcrowded bus the conductor would make place for us to sit. My two siblings Sebastian (brother) and Aleykutty (sister), went to their heavenly abode on December 4, 2013 and February 19, 2018 respectively. With this all my immediate family members are in heaven now except my sister-in-law. I look forward to sustaining the inner peace and peace in the world, and real loving relationship with one another wherever I am. And I wish the same for others, whoever they are. I have come to believe unless we are one with God, peace cannot be realized. To anyone who asks me what religious life has meant to me, I would say, “Come and stay with me.” “The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind The answer is blowin’ in the wind.” ​(Bob Dylan, Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers) Sister Ann George Mukalel, SCN Completed on February 21, 2020 Consent given to publish the story at SCN website 14 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Unknown Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ann George Mukalel, SCN Location The location of the interview India Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ann George Mukalel, SCN Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Mukalel, Ann George, SCN; Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource SCN Archival Center Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived SCN Archival Center Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2/21/2020 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for any type of publication of archival materials, including text, photographs, video, or audio must be secured from the Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Archival Center before publication. Contact archives staff for appropriate forms and contact information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MMC-AnnGeorgeMukalel Sisters of Charity of Nazareth