4 10 108 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/b88a36c5eb0616a19e39126f2a053a8a.jpg 8f5602e440d44dbd6a4d9f64230002ee https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/0bc38dd63fccc16c798a1b4e2f7c2eef.mp3 bdb2a51baeafe7aaeb2eff280aa49639 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/4d22f663d300ad15dea8d39993d301cd.pdf a9f454f11ebacdfa15fba1a6a55cbb63 PDF Text Text Sisters of Charity of New York Interview with Sr. Linda Giuli, SC Wednesday January 8, 2018 10:12AM • 30:14 Angelica Bullock 00:00 Today is September 10th, 2018. The interviewee is Sister. Linda Giuli. The interviewer is Angelica Bullock. I am interviewing Sr. Linda in Boyle Hall in the archives Reading Room; and it's about 1:00pm. Sr. Linda, can you state your full name and your religious name? Sr. Linda Giuli 00:30 My full name is Sr. Linda Giuli. I was baptized Madeline Linda because Linda is not a saint, and the priest who baptized me suggested to my mother that Madeline was a good name. So it's Madeline Linda. My religious name was Sr. Mary Therese. Angelica Bullock 00:58 And how old are you currently? Sr. Linda Giuli 01:01 I am 76 years old. Angelica Bullock 01:03 And when did you enter the Sisters of Charity? Sr. Linda Giuli 01:07 September 8th, 1961, at age 18. Angelica Bullock 01:14 Let's talk about your family life. Where were you born? Sr. Linda Giuli 01:20 I was born in Westchester Square Hospital in the Bronx. I grew up in the Bronx. I even remember my address was 3029 Barnes Avenue. I was there till I was about nine years old. Angelica Bullock 01:38 And where did you grow up after the age of nine? Sr. Linda Giuli 01:43 My mother and I moved to... upper in the Bronx. We went from Barnes Avenue up to Wakefield. So I grew up in the north Bronx in Wakefield, went to school, St. Francis of Rome was our parish and went to grammar school there and then to St. Barnabas High School. -1- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 02:11 And can you tell me a little bit about your parents and your siblings, if you had any? I have no siblings. I was perfect my mother said, so she didn't need to have any more children. The one that she had was perfect. My mother had a very hard pregnancy with me. She told me that story. And because of that, my father was called to the army and they gave him a deferment. So after I was born in June, he didn't have to go to the army till October. And because of that, it was World War II, my father did not get sent overseas; he was lucky. He spent his army years in California. And my father happened to have very wonderfully talented hands. He could do anything. And he was assigned to make prosthetic limbs for the soldiers. And when he came home, I was three years old. And what did your father do after? Sr. Linda Giuli 03:34 After, my father had a hard time finding work. He had several jobs he worked as a maintenance man. He worked for a man in Mamaroneck who had an estate. That's the man who gave him the piano that came in through our living room window and two years later went out our living room window. My father played the violin and the accordion, the sisters taught him to do that. My father grew up in Colorado, so I'm not sure what sisters taught him, but he was taught music by the sisters. My father eventually got a job with New York City Housing and he became an architect and a builder for New York City Housing. In fact, he designed and built the building that Sr. Carol DeAngelo grew up in, Evenwald Housing, was the name of the group of buildings, Evenwald in the north Bronx. Angelica Bullock 05:04 And what about your mother? What did she do? Sr. Linda Giuli 05:09 Well, my mother was a housewife, a homemaker until I was about 10. And then she had various jobs and then eventually became the Assistant Manager of John Wanamaker's in Cross County in Yonkers. John Wanamaker was a very famous department store. Angelica Bullock 05:37 And what inspired her to start working when you were 10? Because she didn't want to leave me alone in the house, until I guess she thought I was more responsible. You know, my mother had a history of fashion when she was younger. She worked as a draper and for a designer house for clothes, women's clothes. And so she always had her hand somehow in fashion in the kind of work that she had. Did you have any pets growing up? Sr. Linda Giuli 06:17 I had a dog. I loved my dog; my dog loved me. He ate all the food that I didn't want. Angelica Bullock 06:28 What was your dog's name? Skupper. S-k-u-p-p-e-r. Skupper had that name because they didn't call them Skipper. My Uncle John was in the Navy and he found this little pup. And he smuggled this little doggie onto the ship. And the guys took care of him, and he put him in his duffel bag. And when he brought him home, my Aunt Eleanor did not want the dog. So my father said, "Oh, we'll take him." So he became our dog. Around what age did you receive the dog? -2- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Linda Giuli 07:11 Well, I guess around 5 or so. I'm not exactly sure but I just remember having the dog in my house. I might have even been younger than that, because I remember he used to come, my mother used to insist that I have a nap and I didn't like to nap. She'd put me in my in my crib, I can remember that. And he would come and put his little snout in between the, what do they call the parts of the crib that are ... Angelica Bullock 07:52 ...the opening section? Yeah, he used to put his snout in there and I used to play with him and he used to play back, Then my mother would come in and she tell him "Out you, get out!" And he'd get out. And then I could go to sleep. I wouldn't sleep with him in there. And how long did you have Skupper for? Until I moved, till I was 9. Do you remember anything in particular, anything special about your childhood? Sr. Linda Giuli 08:27 Well, I went to public school. Immaculate Conception, Gun Hill Road was my Parish, but the school wasn't built yet. They were still building it and collecting money from people for it. So I went to public school for kindergarten and I was left back in kindergarten, because they told my mother I was slow. So I was in kindergarten for two years. I remember my first teacher was Mrs. Davis. And then the second one was Mrs. Roses and her son, William Roses sat at my table and I liked him. I liked William. We were buddies. Angelica Bullock 09:13 Can you explain what that means that you were left back in kindergarten? Sr. Linda Giuli 09:20 I guess they meant retarded or something. But it took a long time for me to learn how to read. I finally went to Immaculate Conception School when it opened, and I think that was second grade. But I couldn't receive my First Holy Communion because I couldn't memorize the Catechism and I couldn't read. So I received my first communion in the third grade. I was the tallest kid in on the line. I was last online because I was the tallest and my mother made my dress because they didn't have First Communion dresses in my size. I had that dress, I loved that dress; I thought it was beautiful. And what she did too was she made different color slips. So through the white eyelit the blue or the pink that she made, yellow. And then I had matching socks. I remember that as a kid. Angelica Bullock 10:35 What influenced you to join the Sisters of Charity. Why did you decide to join? Sr. Linda Giuli 10:42 I guess I decided to join because I felt the call. And I know it's hard to believe but I was a pretty serious kid and I thought about it a lot. And I got to know my sponsor at St. Barnabas and I talked to her a little bit, talked to her a lot, actually. And it was hard in a way because my mother was alone. If I would go to the convent, my mother would be alone. But I still thought it was the right thing to do. -3- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 11:34 When you joined, what did your family say? Sr. Linda Giuli 11:37 Oh, I couldn't repeat it. This microphone would explode. They were I think, at the beginning, they were pretty shocked. Angelica Bullock 11:54 Why? Sr. Linda Giuli 11:56 My family were not, were good people. My uncles, my aunts, they were very good people but they were not, I'm going to use the word religious, they were not church-going people for the most part. But they were good people and they were very surprised; they were shocked. In fact, one of my uncles, my Uncle Joe, who I really loved a lot, he came in, he grabbed me one time we were together at his house. And and he said, "Are you sure you know what you're doing?" Angelica Bullock 12:43 What did you say? Sr. Linda Giuli 12:44 I told them that yeah, I thought I knew what I was doing. I had boyfriends. I lived a very normal life. I went out a lot. I worked. I was in sports. I had friends. Angelica Bullock 13:05 What did your friends think? My friends were mostly in school with me so they knew me pretty well. My friends were alright with it. My mother said to me, "If you're not happy, I want you to come home." So once that she got used to the idea and she would ask me when we had visiting days, "Are you happy?" Do you remember entering the first day? Sr. Linda Giuli 13:44 Oh, yeah, it was a beautiful day. It was sunny and warm and my Aunt Evelyn drove us up to the Mount. And she'd let me drive and I went the wrong way on a one way street. Nothing bad happened. Nothing bad happened. I guess it was nerves. But we got there okay. And it was just a beautiful sunny day. It was a Friday, because I remember what we were served for supper. It was tuna salad and sliced tomatoes and bread and I guess they were supposed to be either hard boiled or soft boiled eggs and it wasn't. When we cracked the eggs, the eggs were only half-cooked. They were slimey. And the novice at our table said, "You don't have to eat it," and I said, "Good, 'cause I'm not!'" Angelica Bullock 14:57 Do you remember what you packed to enter? -4- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Linda Giuli 15:02 When we got a letter of acceptance either enclosed in that letter or separate, we got a list of things that we were supposed to send in a trunk. And my sponsor and I went shopping and we got all the stuff. Certain underwears and certain soaps and certain deodorants and shoes and stockings and all that kind of stuff. Angelica Bullock 15:34 Did any of it seem weird or unknown to you or did you already know people who had joined the Sisters? Yeah, but I didn't realize what it was; I didn't get into what you brought with you. Everything was either black or white. How did you feel when you were entering? Did you feel excited or nervous? Sr. Linda Giuli 16:01 Oh, I wasn't nervous. No, I wasn't nervous and I wasn't ever homesick. I wasn't ever homesick, not the way some other people were. I didn't spend a lot of time crying or upset or no, I was okay. Kind of took things as they came. And of course, I was perfect. So in many ways, I followed the rules for the most part and when I didn't, I was lucky enough not to get caught. Angelica Bullock 16:46 What kind of rules did you have your first year? Silence-keeping, not talking and of course, I was a girl so I like to talk. You had to get used to not talking in certain times and places. It wasn't so hard it you know, you got used to it after a while. Not having any choice of food, that was hard. Not terrible but a little hard. You ate what was served. You couldn't say, "I don't like this or I don't want this. I'd like something else." That didn't happen. Getting up at 5:00, after 5:00 in the morning was the hardest; probably the hardest thing to get used to. There was what they call the rising bell. It was a loud, very loud bell, that knocked you on your feet. It was so horrible. And I just wasn't used to getting up at 5:00 o'clock. I'm still not used to getting up at 5:00 o'clock. Do you know why you had to get up so early? Sr. Linda Giuli 18:21 Yeah, because we went to the chapel to pray. And then we went to mass and then we had breakfast. And then we had prayers, then we had readings and class, that was forever. The day was very filled with activities and you had house duties, you know, different variety of things that you did or were assigned to actually. Angelica Bullock 18:53 I want to talk a little bit about you and your college years. We had school, part of what we did as postulants and novices was we had class and even when we became junior professed and moved to LeGras, we had class at the college. And when I went out on mission we had to come back on Saturdays for class. Education-wise we were all offered and given the best of education, I think opportunities, etc. Did you take classes only with Sisters? No, after I graduated from the college here, when I was in class here, some of the girls that I was in high school with were in my class. Then when I graduated from here, I was told to go on for a master's and I went to Hunter College in the city and finished two masters degrees there. But I always wanted to be a nurse. I couldn't even imagine my whole life in school. I didn't particularly care for school. And I didn't particularly like children. So both things made it a little difficult. But if I was to teach, I was to teach, it was an obedience. I wasn't going to -5- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �leave because of it. It was something that I was going to do in terms of an assigned ministry. But when I got a chance to make a choice I did. Sr. Linda Giuli 20:18 And you said you received two Master's degrees? Angelica Bullock 20:51 One was in elementary education and the other one was in... I'm trying to think of what that degree was; I can't remember. And how long did it take you to complete both degrees? Sr. Linda Giuli 21:06 Oh, it went quickly because I went twice a week. I was teaching in Rego Park in Queens and I'd take the Q44 bus into 59th Street and First Avenue, and I'd walk up to Hunter. I did that twice a week and on Saturday, sometimes on Saturday. So I got finished pretty fast. And it wasn't until 1977, '76 actually, when I pursued the nursing with the president who was in office at that time. Angelica Bullock 21:56 So how did you start your second career in nursing. You mentioned the president. Did she give you the okay? Sr. Linda Giuli 22:06 Yes. Yeah, I went to talk to Margaret Dowling, I went to talk to Sr. Margaret. I told her; it was difficult because Sr. Margaret had been superintendent of schools. So to tell the superintendent of schools that you hated to be in school was a little bit difficult but, she really was very good to me and she understood. But she asked me to stay in the classroom until things were settled. So I took the MCAT, which was the boards that you had to take when you apply for medical school, and I did; I passed. I had studied on my own and I passed and I got into New York Medical. Soon to find out after a year that it was not to be because the amount of work and reading was too much for me. So I switched over to the nurse practitioner program in Pace University, and I completed the program there. Angelica Bullock 23:09 Did you enjoy your time there at Pace? Sr. Linda Giuli 23:11 Absolutely, it was great. I got a great education. Angelica Bullock 23:15 And what did you do after you graduated? Sr. Linda Giuli 23:19 Oh, my first job was with the Westchester County Department of Health at the New Rochelle District Office. I lived in Mamaroneck at the time, so that was easy. And after a couple of years I went to Burikin Family Clinic in East Harlem and after that, I went to Montefiore for 22 years. And after that I went to St. Barnabas Hospital in the Bronx. That was an interesting job, I liked it very much. It was psychology and drug addiction. I took care of a lot of AIDS patients. -6- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 24:11 How did you feel having a new career after teaching? Did you think of your... Sr. Linda Giuli 24:20 I was glad to be out of school. I liked the work as a nurse practitioner and I worked with really, really wonderful people. Angelica Bullock 24:33 Do you think you would have stayed in the community if the President told you that you couldn't become a nurse practitioner? Sr. Linda Giuli 24:44 Of course I would have stayed. Of course, that was never an issue. Angelica Bullock 24:53 So you would have been okay with being a teacher? Sr. Linda Giuli 24:58 Sure, I would have beat up all the kids everyday and given them a lot of homework and been really mean, but I would have stayed. Angelica Bullock 25:12 Do you think at the time that it was easier to make this switch from teaching to being a nurse practitioner? Just because it was kind of that time, like during the 70s where things were changing in the church and I guess changing with the Sisters? Sr. Linda Giuli 25:30 And I was young, I mean, I was only, 33. You know, I wasn't ever adverse to change in fact, I greeted change. I mean, I never had a problem with that. I rolled with the punches pretty easily. Angelica Bullock 25:54 Why did you want to become a nurse practitioner? Sr. Linda Giuli 25:59 Always from when I was a little girl always wanted to be a nurse. Always. Angelica Bullock 26:06 Did you know why or do you just feel like you had a calling to be a nurse? Yeah, I did. Was there anyone else in your family who was a nurse or a doctor or in medicine? No, one of my younger cousins, two of my younger cousins became nurses also. When you were a nurse, did you ever see God in your work? -7- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Linda Giuli 26:36 Being on that level with people, I think is a spirituality in itself. And when I was working with AIDS people, drug addiction and AIDS people, that was very serious work. Very, very often their lives, you knew that their lives were going to be so shortened and ... I guess I'm just trying to think on how to say, being kind to people who are so sick with so little hope and in those days, if you had AIDS there was not much hope to survive. Being kind and understanding and caring for people with disease of that magnitude was being very, I think in the greatest definition of being religious. When I was in Rego Park which was the Brooklyn Diocese I got into involved in ITV, Instructional Television (Archdiocese of New York). And always one of the reasons why communications was my second Master's. But then again, I got changed back to New York to St. Mary's in Yonkers, so I didn't need it anymore. I'm trying to... Angelica Bullock 28:23 What did you do at ITV? Sr. Linda Giuli 28:27 I actually did television, not live; it was filmed. I prepared lesson plans for little children, first grade, in fact, I wore a pale blue habit. It was the same habit that we had in white, only it was pale blue because white was not good for television; it was too bright. It was pale blue, and I would put that on when I got to the studio, and then take it off to come home. It was interesting. Angelica Bullock 29:01 Did you like it? No, I wouldn't want to do it forever. In fact, I didn't want to be in school. I mean, I never really wanted to be in school. One of the good things that happened when I was in Rego Park, and I loved the people in Rego Park. They were many, many of the people were Cuban refugees. They came over in the Mariel boats. They were wonderful, wonderful people, and I needed to learn to speak Spanish. My Spanish wasn't good enough. So somebody put my address down as Mount St. Vincent, instead of real far, and I got a chance to study Spanish in Puerto Rico one summer, and that helped a lot. I didn't know much about TV back then, but wasn't the rise of TV as we do it now during the time you were working for ITV, in the sixties? Well, it was a new concept in education, that's for sure and the Brooklyn Diocese was wonderful in terms of the leadership they had in education. So the use of television in classroom was good. -8- Transcribed by https://otter.ai � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of New York Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Giuli, Sister Linda Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bullock, Angelica Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 30:14:00 Location The location of the interview Mount Saint Vincent, Bronx, New York Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Giuli, Sister Linda, SC, Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Giuli, Sister Linda, SC Sisters of Charity (New York, N.Y.) Monasticism and religious life of women Nurse practitioners Description An account of the resource Sr. Linda Giuli discusses her life as a Sister of Charity of New York, growing up as the only child in an Italian family in the Bronx, and the value of her missions as a teacher and a nurse. Although as a young sister Sr. Linda taught elementary school, she was always interested in pursuing health care. She began her second career as a nurse practitioner at the age of thirty-three and continued this pursuit until her retirement. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sisters of Charity of New York Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of New York Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2018-09-10 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mindy Gordon (Transcriber; Editor) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for reproduction or quotation must be obtained through written application to: Director of Archives, Sisters of Charity of New York, 6301 Riverdale Avenue, Bronx, New York, 10471. This permission is valid only insofar as the Archives of the Sisters of Charity of New York, as owner or custodian, has any rights in the matter and does not remove the responsibility of the author, editor, and publisher to guard against the infringement of any rights; including copyright, that may be held by others. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 application/pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Giuli, Sister Linda, SC, Oral History Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant New York City Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Sisters of Charity of New York Education Healthcare Sisters of Charity of New York https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/a0d0abeb6c9e5dd1d5fef502a039fee0.jpg 4ae3c93555b388c642c0a893ec3ef959 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/66bbf0b012b59a31d60fa10f9e1789c8.pdf da3a08de63e6ba354d41ed87c3e9f773 PDF Text Text Sisters of Charity of New York Interview with Sr. Grace Henke, SC Monday, October 28, 2019, 3:23PM • 41:24 Angelica Bullock 00:00 Today is Monday, October 28, 2019. The interviewer is Angelica Bullock. The interviewee is Sister Grace Henke. It is about 10:49am, and we are at the ALP (Assisted Living Program). Sr. Grace Henke 00:20 Right. Angelica Bullock 00:21 So Sr. Grace Henke, can you please state your full name? Sr. Grace Henke 00:25 Yes, it is Grace Cecilia Henke. Angelica Bullock 00:30 And what was or is your religious name? Sr. Grace Henke 00:34 My religious name was Sr. Mary Adrienne Henke. Angelica Bullock 00:46 And what is your current age? Sr. Grace Henke 00:49 My current age? Let's see, I was born in 1932. So what would that make me? I guess? So that would be 1932, would be 68, 78 and 9- 87. Did you get that? All right. (laughter) Angelica Bullock 01:14 Okay. And do you remember approximately what year you entered the congregation? Sr. Grace Henke 01:20 1951. Angelica Bullock 01:23 And you remember your age at the time? Sr. Grace Henke 01:26 I think I was probably, well, that's 1932 to 1951- do that on your calculator. (laughter) -1- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 01:37 19 Sr. Grace Henke 01:39 I was 19. I was surprised. Angelica Bullock 01:41 Okay. Sr. Grace Henke 01:42 I worked for a year at the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company, which was like the annex to the Sisters of Charity. Really, because we had to work for a year for a dowry, some kind of a dowry. So we save money. Angelica Bullock 01:58 You know, I think I did hear another Sister that I interviewed...She said that she worked there. 02:06 A lot of us work there. And when we left, they knew that we were there. You know, we were there for the year. And they gave us a party and gave us gifts. (laughter) Angelica Bullock 02:20 And you mentioned the dowry. Was there, like, was it expensive? Sr. Grace Henke 02:25 I don't remember. I don't remember, I think might have been a couple of hundred dollars, but I don't remember. Angelica Bullock 02:30 Okay. Sr. Grace Henke 02:30 It was just that you were supposed to bring some kind of money with you. And of course, we had all graduated from high school. Angelica Bullock 02:37 Okay. And how many years have you been in the congregation? Sr. Grace Henke 02:43 Well, I guess that we have to do that again. 51 one today. I guess it's 67 or 68. It's a whole lifetime. Angelica Bullock 02:57 68 years. -2- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Grace Henke 02:58 Isn't that amazing? Angelica Bullock 03:00 68 years is a long time. Sr. Grace Henke 03:02 It's a long time. Do I look 87? Angelica Bullock 03:06 No. (Laughter) I never think sisters look their age though. And I always feel like sisters look younger than the general population. Do you think so? Sr. Grace Henke 03:18 I think so too. Angelica Bullock 03:19 Yeah. Okay, so going down the list. This leads us to general information, a little bit about where you from. So where were you born? Sr. Grace Henke 03:34 I was born in the Bronx. Angelica Bullock 03:37 And did you grow up in the Bronx? Sr. Grace Henke 03:38 I grew up in the Bronx. Angelica Bullock 03:40 And what about your parents? Where were they from? Sr. Grace Henke 03:43 My mother was from Washington DC. She was Adrienne Lemerle. And Adrian was spelt the way I spelled my name. It is very French and my father grew up in New York. And he was Eugene Raymond Henke. Can you imagine a Lemerle- Adrianne Lemerle, married Eugene Henke. But- they did, they had a good life together. He died when he was 35. Angelica Bullock 04:24 Wow. Sr. Grace Henke 04:24 So it was very hard on my mother. -3- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 04:27 And how did you feel? I guess, losing your father so young. Sr. Grace Henke 04:33 Well, I probably- I was only 10 at the time. So, you know, I didn't I really didn't know. I remember it was a big thing, whether or not they were going to let me see my father and the funeral home. You know, like it must've been traumatic or not. And I can remember they did let me go in. And like I touched him, and I just said to myself, he's very cold. Like, because he was like, sleeping, you know? Angelica Bullock 05:05 And did you grow up in different areas of the Bronx or just one? Sr. Grace Henke 05:09 No, we grew up I well, Leland. Well, when I was young, we grew up in Hollywood Avenue, and went to St. Francis de Chantel. And then my father worked for Con Edison. So, we moved to Leland day Avenue, because he could get on the subway, the elevated subway- dance point, which is where he worked. So, we really grew up in the Bronx really. Went to let's see, St. Francis de Chantel. And then we moved to Blessed Sacrament. And that was very interesting because and St. Francis de Chantel, they put you in size places in school. So because I was big girl, I was in the back. I didn't know that I couldn't see. I couldn't get my classes- I couldn't do the homework. My father used to get very upset with me. When we moved to Leland Avenue, we went to Blessed Sacrament, the Sisters of Charity. And the first thing they did was give me a test for sight and told me I needed glasses. And I can still remember, to this day, walking out on the street at night. And it was, it was Parkchester, it was like a Fairyland, to see the lights to see everything so clear. Angelica Bullock 06:35 So that kind of leads to my next question. When did you first know the Sisters of Charity of New York? Sr. Grace Henke 06:43 Well, when I went to a Blessed Sacrament, that's when I met the Sisters of Charity. And I was very impressed with them. They were very kind. I don't know what the other sisters were, but these sisters were very kind- and I can remember going to visit them in the convent. Like I enjoyed being with them. And it wasn't until I went to Cathedral High School, we had the Sisters of Charity. I was in the annex for two years and had the Christian charities. And I was thinking of religious life then. The Christian charities really were a German order. And I said, Oh, I don't want a German order, because I wanted to stay where my mother was. So the last two years, you went to the main building, which was Cathedral High School, and you'll hear a lot of sisters went to Cathedral High School. And it was there- I was getting my coat and Sister Anna Mercedes came behind me. This is my senior year. And she said to me, “You have a vocation.” And I burst out crying because, I guess I hadn't thought about it at all. I really thought I was going to go to Hunter College and be in the science field. You know? So, after that, when I thought about that, that's when I spoke to Father, you know, Father Dunellen, and said, “How can I leave my mother alone?” -4- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 08:13 Did he give you any advice? Sr. Grace Henke 08:16 He said, “If you have that vocation, you, you should pay attention to it. And let me talk to your mother.” So he talked to my mother, and she accepted it, which was wonderful. I mean, wasn't it wonderful of her to accept that, because she lost my father and then she lost me. But, when I was at St. Vincent's, she used to come to visit me whenever we could at the Mount (Mount Saint Vincent), and then she would visit me at St. Vincent's Hospital. We had a visit every month, and she would come and visit. Angelica Bullock 08:53 And did you have any other members of your family that were in religious life at that time? Sr. Grace Henke 08:59 I'm the only one. Angelica Bullock 09:00 Wow. Sr. Grace Henke 09:01 I'm the only one. I'm praying now for (redacted). Who is about maybe a teenager now? Because he seemed to be tending toward religious life. So he doesn't know, but I'm praying every day he becomes a priest. You don't know what we're praying for you. Angelica Bullock 09:26 Yeah, that was that was a very big sacrifice of your mom. Sr. Grace Henke 09:31 It really was. Yeah. And that's why I thought the Sisters of Charity. I had thought about the Maryknolls but they go to foreign missions, and they take care of a lot of bugs. So I said to myself, if I go to stay, take a New York- New York convent. It won't be bad. I won't have a lot of bugs. And I'll be near my mother, which was one of the reasons why I chose this community. Angelica Bullock 10:04 And do remember anything about like when you first entered the community? Sr. Grace Henke 10:10 People kept telling us that we were going to scrub the floor with toothbrushes. I mean, this is the kind of thing they told you. "Oh when you join the convent." No, I remember, I must tell you it was like a few. The three years of religious life was like a mystery to me. I did everything I was supposed to do. Went every place I was supposed to go, but I don't remember a lot of it to be honest with you. -5- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 10:44 And when you entered, where there a lot of girls from your high school, Cathedral, that entered the same time? Sr. Grace Henke 10:50 Yes, I would say- we were 41 that entered- I would say half of them are probably from Cathedral. Cathedral High School and St. Barnabas were the two major areas. The sisters, sisters taught there. And that's how you got to know them. Angelica Bullock 11:09 And do you think it was easier entering, knowing that you already knew people? Like you kind of knew some people in the community? Sr. Grace Henke 11:19 No, I wasn't, it didn't, nothing affected me that way- it was just myself and my vocation with God, I think is what drew me and whoever was with me, that was accepted. Angelica Bullock 11:34 I see. So it is more your personal relationship with God. Sr. Grace Henke 11:38 Yes. Yes, I would think so. Angelica Bullock 11:43 And when you entered, did you feel like you're fulfilling that desire, I guess, to get closer to God? Sr. Grace Henke 11:52 I feel that that's true. That it was our-my mission, to serve the Lord and His people. To take care of the poor. Angelica Bullock 12:02 I guess now we can skip to ministries... Sr. Grace Henke 12:06 Okeydoke. Angelica Bullock 12:07 So, I'm gonna let you take charge, and tell me about your ministry. -6- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Grace Henke 12:13 So, when I entered it, we took the CUDA preference test. And when we were seniors, and we went into the School of Nursing. When we first went in to, to the school, there was no place for us. There were no-It was I think there were over 60 sisters working at St Vincent's Hospital, and there was no room for us in the residence. So, we lived at Immaculate Conception in the Bronx, which was a school on 14th Street. And we lived there, and every morning we would get on. If it was a nice day we'd walk over to St. Vincent's, which was on 12 Street. Angelica Bullock 12:50 Okay. Sr. Grace Henke 12:51 It was about maybe four, four or five blocks away. But on days that the weather wasn't good, we'd take the bus. So that was interesting. When we went there we were in our black habits, and they gave us a course, a crash course- taught us to be nurses’ aides. So, one of the sisters would give us- Sister Patrice gave me hers-would give us an apron, that white apron that we'd put it on and we'd go to- we went over in March, and we didn't start school till September. So, for those few months, we were living at Immaculate conception and then going back and forth and working as nurses, aides. Angelica Bullock 13:33 Okay. And did you always have some kind of desire to be a nurse? Sr. Grace Henke 13:40 Yes. When I was a Senior I went to I went to St. Vincent's open house, and I know now it was a really a brandy, one of the teachers and she was very quick and she really didn't want to do this open up. So she took us in one door showed us showed us this classroom where they taught, you know, blood pressure and goal and took us out the door. Then I went to I went to Columbia Presbyterian. Each person that went, had a student nurse assigned to them. We had high tea. And then they took us around the hospital. And they took us into the operating room. You know, when you look at the movies, and you have that balcony, and we were so astonished, then they took us to their residence. Each student nurse had her own room, and I said to myself, wow, I'm gonna go here. Of course, I entered the lead at St Vincent's Hospital. But that was fun. So, I really was interested in nursing before. So it was, it was wonderful. I was able to do that. Angelica Bullock 14:53 And how many years were you a nurse for about? Sr. Grace Henke 14:57 Well, I am a nurse. How many years have how many years have I been practicing nursing? I practice nursing till about 2003 so if we started and in 1954 we can do that on computer, before 2003. That was a lot of news. Yes, Angelica Bullock 15:25 Yeah. Forty-nine years. -7- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Grace Henke 15:27 That's a lot of years. So, from here, I don't know if you want all this, I was a student nurse and a graduate and an assistant head nurse, and then an evening supervisor. And then I was an instructor in the School of Nursing. I taught anatomy and physiology, pharmacology, and I wrote a book called 'Med Math.' You know, I was teaching pharmacology and this the salesman always come every and a salesman from Lippincott came in, he said, just you're not buying a book. I said, I don't like your book. I'm doing my own. I'm doing my own worksheets. So he said, Could you give me some? So I said, Yes, sure. So he came back a couple of weeks later and he said, We'd like to publish your, you know, your sheets as a workbook. So I spoke to Sister Mary Robin, who is the directed and she said, Why don't you go ahead and do it? It's a big job to do a book. So I did 'Med Math' which was dosage calculation and administration. And that went into five additions. In fact, it's still I think, somebody told me they saw it at one of the, what is it place that sells textbooks? Barnes and Noble. I saw it at Barnes and Noble. So, I did five additions and then after that, they wanted to go into a digital one with a computer. And I said, I really wasn't qualified to do that. So, somebody has a name on, it's 'Henke's Med Math', but somebody suing somebody from the University of Georgia is doing the computer one. So, we were lucky. We got royalties for five years. On that I sent them to the community. What am I gonna do with royalties? Angelica Bullock 17:26 But how does that feel to know that you have like your own textbook and students are …? Sr. Grace Henke 17:31 Well, I wanted, you know, I'm terrible at math. So, I when I did a textbook, I did the textbook for people who were terrible in math, so I always felt very good. In fact, I have something here. Let's see. When I had my 50th anniversary, let me see if I can find this. Elena [Director of Communications] put it on, this was… that's the book. Angelica Bullock 18:02 There's a lot of chapters, thirteen chapters. Sr. Grace Henke 18:05 Well, it was a lot to teach. Oh, here it is. So, these are some of the comments from people. Angelica Bullock 18:15 Oh, this is nice. See? Sr. Grace Henke 18:19 That makes that made me feel so good. And one of them way down at the end said, “I was terrible in math, and she helped me.” I mean, just that one person. I said, “Oh, wow.” Angelica Bullock 18:32 So, I'm reading aloud one of these comments and they're saying that you're one of the best teachers that they ever had. A lot of people are saying that, are saying thank you to you. How does that feel? -8- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Grace Henke 18:47 Feels very good. Now, let me tell you what happened. While I was teaching there, they started a nursing course at [College of] Mount Saint Vincent and they made their students take a nursing drug test dosage test. And if they didn't get one hundred, they wouldn't keep them. So, they were having a problem because they couldn't fire or discharge these students. So, they called me and they said, “Would you come?” I said to myself, these are very bright women. They just don't understand what it is. So, I took a whole bunch of medicines, and a whole bunch of medicine tickets. And I said to them, “Here is the order that the doctor ordered and this is the way the drug comes.” And they said, “Oh, so then it was easy to figure it out.” Once you understood. The problem was they weren't doing practical work with them. So, then they all passed. They were right, you know? Angelica Bullock 19:49 But I mean, how does it - I'm not in the sciences at all. But I guess medicine seems like a very like lifeor-death situation, right? You can't mess up dosages right? Sr. Grace Henke 20:05 So, that's right. I would make my students get 100%. But if they didn't get 100%, because I said to them,”If you got 98% in this test, and the 2%, that you didn't know, was the 2% drug that you were giving me,” I said, “Something terrible could happen to me.” So, I want you in the beginning to get 100% to prove that you could do it and not make an error. We did a lot of work on read the label three times, read the medicine three times, check what you're doing. So, I always felt very good about doing that, that I was able to help people help patients by helping the students, was wonderful. It's a wonderful gift. Really. Angelica Bullock 20:54 Do you remember your early days of nursing? Sr. Grace Henke 20:59 Yes. That was in the Ward building, it was called the Seton Building and I worked on the female floor. And these were little old ladies in a room, there were 10 of them in the room, and they were all fractured hips. And in those days when a little old lady got a fractured hip, they put her in traction. So, she was in traction for several weeks at a time until it healed and on her back all the time. So, the nursing care was very, very serious, because you didn't want them to get bed sores. And I was the assistant head nurse. I put two aides on in the evening instead of one aide and two nurses. I put two nurses so that that room would get good care. And every morning I'd come in and they pull that nurse aid to someplace else. I would run down to nursing administration and say, “I put two aides on and you took one, you have to think of the whole hospital,” used to drive me crazy. But anyway, that was wonderful nursing care. And then I was moved to St. Joseph's, which was a men's room. And a lot of them were diabetics. They were homeless men from the street. So, lots of times at St. Vincent's, this was before insurance, we would keep them all winter. And in the springtime, we’d get them clothes and shoes, and get social service to help them find a place to live. And then let them go out. Was a whole different way of giving nursing then. Now, the first thing they want to see is are you covered. What's your insurance, right? Yeah. And I think St. Vincent, I think we lost, because we would take anybody, I mean anybody in the emergency room, regardless of their ability to pay, that was a wonderful gift that -9- Transcribed by https://otter.ai �we gave to people, you know, the Lord enabled us to do that. Of course, that's probably one of the reasons why we had to close because we ran out of money. Angelica Bullock 23:22 What do you think that's the conversation now? And universal health care and caring for those who don't have insurance? Because when you're at St. Vincent's, that was kind of like the pioneer for all the stuff that's being talked about. Sr. Grace Henke 23:40 So now, we do have these sponsored works that we do, we still have St. Joseph's Hospital [Yonkers, NY]. We have St. Vincent's Harrison [Westchester, NY], which is a mental health pavilion, and we do a lot of work, helping people get insurance. That's part of our work now. You know, with the different sponsored works that we have. And people who come in like Casa Esperanza [Multiservice Center, Yonkers, NY], you know, helping people to learn English and giving them all kinds of supportive services, POTS (Part of the Solution) is another one. We're not in the hospitals now. I think that we were trying to figure out when we went to the last wake, how many nurses were left? I think there may be five of us, five of us in the whole, we were never a large group, you know, in the Community. But if you look at us now, we're all in ArchCare. So that's using the Archdiocesan work. So, we're benefiting from our own help. You know, I can remember when we had an Assembly and the question was would we go into social security? And there was a big to do about that. There are a lot of sisters who said, we shouldn't be going into Social Security, because that's for the poor, and we should be able to take care of ourselves. And I think some sisters left the Community on the head of that. But thank God it was Sr. Margaret Dowling [President, 1971-1979] I think, who brought us into that. And at St. Vincent's, we were working, but we were like, when I was teaching, we were getting a good salary, but we never saw it, it went into the Community. So, in fact, we weren't getting it, I think we were getting a stipend, and W. R. Grace was the chair of the Board of Trustees. And he said to Sr. Loretta Bernard [Mother Loretta Bernard Beagan, 1960-1966; Administrator, St. Vincent’s Hospital], 'Your sisters should get the money from the work that they're doing because they are doing professional work, and that money was what enabled us to pay back all the the Social Security for all the sisters who had taught. So that's how we get the minimum social security. But can you imagine what a great gift that was? Angelica Bullock 26:15 I want to know why you mentioned that some sisters didn't want you to have those benefits? Sr. Grace Henke 26:22 They felt that it belonged to the poor. And we shouldn't be using the money of the poor. That's what they felt. They were very strong. I think some sisters really left the Community. You can ask other people what they thought about that. But where would we go? If we didn't have Social Security now. We were living with Social Security and Medicare, Medicaid, we're on supplemental insurance. We even get something here we get a card from CVS [drug store], which is $50 a month. And there are certain things that you can buy with that like toothpaste and stuff like that. If you don't use that $50 a month, you lose it. And then you get $50 for the next month. Can you imagine? We'd be with getting that with your taxes. Thank you. Thank you. - 10 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Angelica Bullock 27:28 But I think that's good, right. I mean, you spent all of your life but still, helping other people. Sr. Grace Henke 27:35 Well, like when Obama wanted insurance for all, it should be insurance for all people shouldn't have to not have insurance, they should be able to go. Okay, we're one of the worst countries in the world for health care. Angelica Bullock 27:53 Okay, I'm going to switch now to the paper I see in front of me about the St. Elizabeth Ann Seton Award. Do you want to talk a little bit about receiving that award? Sr. Grace Henke 28:06 Well, as I said to you, at St. Vincent's Hospital, when we had them, it was really a fundraising thing. It was, I think it was the Alfred E. Smith [Memorial Foundation] fundraising and there had to be a Sister every year. So I think after a few years, we were running out of sisters at the Hospital. So I don't take any I don't take any big, I don't feel excited about it. I just say, 'It was my turn.' You can read this award. But this is what this is what I said. One of the things that I did in the School of Nursing, which was wonderful, we weren't accepting people who didn't meet our admission requirements. And I said to Sister Robert [Sr. Mary Robert Nagle], we really should do something about that. So, I got money from the Gilroy Foundation, and from where else? The United Hospital Fund. And I started what's called, we called it a TAP program, and that meant Tutorial Assistance Program. So, we would take women who didn't meet our admission requirements, we'd bring them in, in the summertime, and tutor them. Get them into the idea of studying and help them. Some of them didn't even know that Manhattan was an island. You know, like, if your family loved you, they kept you home. You went to school, and then you stayed home. So, they didn't have a lot of experience. So, we gave them some experiences of being, you know, around the city. And then we tutored them in the School of Nursing and over 10 years period, is I wrote that down over 10 years period, we had 70 women who graduated and received their R.N.'s (Registered Nurse). Isn't that wonderful? And then I started a bioethics course, because we really needed ethics and nursing. So they asked me from the college, we didn't call it pharmacology, we called it pharmaco-physiology. And I did that for several views. That was very interesting; it was fun. And then one of the sisters asked me, Sister Marion Hunt, no it wasn't Marion Hunt, it was Kathleen Hunt, asked me if I would teach with her in philosophy. They wanted to two instructors in each course. so that they could make the course more, what's the word I want? Not more interesting, more valuable, more tuned. So, she would teach philosophy and I would do bioethics. So, I did that for three years with her. Angelica Bullock 31:21 What exactly is bioethics? - 11 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Grace Henke 31:23 Bioethics says, when you're researching a situation, this person is in coma, should we turn off the life support or not? Should we do this? Should we do this surgery or not? So bioethics is, right decisionmaking. in this situation. What's the best thing that I can do, what's the best outcome that I can ask for in this situation? So it helps you sometimes, especially when we did it, we had a bioethics program in St Vincent's Hospital. And we would go around, anybody could ask us, a nurse could ask us to please come, or a doctor could ask us to please come, or a visitor or anybody could come. And there was a group of us and we would apply these principles of bioethics. Angelica Bullock 32:22 I never thought about that before, but I guess that seems very important. It's not only like the medical attention. Sr. Grace Henke 32:35 You're doing it all the time. We're doing it all the time, right? It's not only medical, it's everything. Angelica Bullock 32:46 You think that learning bioethics as a nurse, or your students, makes you more compassionate or more ethical? Sr. Grace Henke 33:00 It makes you more ethical, it makes you more logical in terms of decision-making, because sometimes you're not sure. Should I do this or should I do that? What should I do? So as a professional, it was important for them to be exposed to that. Angelica Bullock 33:23 What else would you like to talk about, Sister Grace? Sr. Grace Henke 33:27 I'm looking to see. Okay. I just wanted to say this. When, when I was at St. Vincent's, it was a community hospital. It was very small and charity was very strong. I told you we served anybody who came in whether they were poor or able to pay. And St. Vincent's, the other thing that we did was, AIDS became rampant when we were at St. Vincent's. And we were the hospital that was known as the AIDS hospital. The doctors and nurses we all got together, and different groups and we said,” AIDS is not a social disease. It's a disease, and it should be treated as such.” So we would have whole floors of AIDS patients that we took care of. And the Village [Greenwich Village] always appreciated us with a Catholic hospital. So when they didn't need us, they didn't come. But for AIDS, they came. And we were proud of that, that we were known as an AIDS hospital. And now it's wonderful because the medicines that they have now are really good. In the beginning, they had no medicines that worked well. Angelica Bullock 34:48 I guess, how did it feel working there at that time when HIV AIDS was so rampant, and people didn't know a lot about what it was? I think in my time, it seems like you can have HIV and it's kind of manageable. - 12 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Sr. Grace Henke 35:10 It's manageable. See, in those days, if you got AIDS you we're going to die. It was just no two ways about it. But we were able to take care of them. You're right. Now STD (Sexually Transmitted Diseases), know all those things. Now they just know that they're there because they know there are drugs that work. It's a whole different attitude. And in those days AIDS patients were frowned upon. I mean, people looked at them and said, “Oh, you know, what are they doing to themselves? What have they done?” But we didn't; we never turned them away. We took care of them. It was wonderful. Angelica Bullock 35:53 And did the patients ever express their gratitude towards you or the families? Did they have families? Sr. Grace Henke 36:02 Oh, yeah. Well, because they had significant others. And they were allowed into the hospital they were allowed to take care of them. Yes. You know, people even today, you know, so many years later, people will say to you, well, you were the AIDS hospital. You know, it was wonderful. I wrote down here in the late 60s, remember, how still at St. Vincent's the world changed, and the Congregation changed with it. The Sisters were leaving schools to begin other works. And the Congregation began to change. So that's really true. Angelica Bullock 36:40 How does it feel then when the Congregation started changing? Sr. Grace Henke 36:46 Well, let me think about that because, that's true. People were leaving the works that they were in. Sisters were leaving the works that they were in to do other works like social work. Like the things that we're talking about, you know, the sponsored works into housing and into caring for refugees and people who needed different kinds of activity and leaving hospitals and leaving schools. And the problem with leaving schools was to my mind, the idea of a Catholic school is very important to teach religion so that people grow up knowing some kind of background in religion. And now we don't have that. There aren't Sisters in schools anymore. There are different kinds of work. So that was a big problem. Because the question was, were you going to leave nursing? You know, to do something else. And I said to myself, well, this is my vocation. So, I felt very strong in my vocation, and I stayed with it until I retired actually. Either nursing itself or toward the end of my career, teaching, you know, teaching and writing. Angelica Bullock 38:16 Did most Sisters who were nurses stay nurses or do they go and do other things? Sr. Grace Henke 38:22 Most of the people who were nurses did nurse, and what happened was some of the Sisters who had been teaching who really wanted to nurse asked, and all the different things that came was poverty, chastity and obedience; were the three vows that you took. And after Vatican II, it became poverty, chastity and discernment. So, discernment meant you pray to God, you talk to other people, and you decided really what would be the best thing for you, a whole different ballgame. So, I am a - 13 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai �Heinegeplatz German (obedient) German. So poverty, chastity, obedience meant a lot to me. So, when people were discerning, I was getting distressed because they were leaving schools and see what I'm saying. But I stayed with nursing. But they were very happy. And God was calling them to that. So now I look, when I look at the changes, I don't know did you attend the last Assembly? I don't know, if you ever get a chance to go. What's happening now is they're wonderful. I must read something that I wrote here. We have begun to change and it is exciting. Sisters are energetic and focused on continuing the mission. And I love how the assembly is evolving and the Leadership is developing. Angelica Bullock 40:02 It sounds very positive and inspirational. Sr. Grace Henke 40:05 It's wonderful. It's, so I'm saying now, and the fact that we're here, like I said to Sr. Margaret O'Brien [Treasurer and Councilor, Congregation Leadership], “Is this helpful that we're here? Because we could be any place, you know.” But when she said, “Yes, it's helpful,” so that's my mission now; is to be here. Prayer is my mission in this place, and to be present to the people who live here and work here. Just being here as a Aister is good. We get a list from the Development Office every month for people who are asking for our prayers, and we are very grateful when they write and say something positive happened. Most of the time we don't know. But we keep praying. That's our thing. Angelica Bullock 40:54 That's very nice, because I think a lot of people do want people to pray for them. Sr. Grace Henke 40:59 Yes. Yes. And if you ask me to pray for you, I ask you with, what the first name of the person is, and I put that in my prayer envelope. I say, 'Lord, I may forget, but you remember.' So, we say the rosary every day for all those people who have asked for our prayers, and we mention if we need other intentions, we mention them too. - 14 - Transcribed by https://otter.ai � https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/294797d171691ffa455328ffcf94165f.mp3 feb84f6ef38fe7300bc6952c1223d930 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of New York Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bullock, Angelica Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Henke, Grace, SC Location The location of the interview The New Jewish Home, Kittay Senior Apartments, Bronx, New York Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio/mp3 Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 41:24:00 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Henke, Sister Grace, SC., Interview Subject The topic of the resource Henke, Sister Grace Description An account of the resource Sr. Grace Henke, SC, details her formative years as a novice and extensive career as a nurse and instructor at St. Vincent's Hospital School of Nursing. Sr. Grace authored 'Med-Math: Dosage Calculation Preparation and Administration' to simplify measurement of medications needed for patients. Sr. Grace developed a program to tutor underprivileged students to become nurses. She was part of the team that treated AIDS patients in the Greenwich Village hospital during the early years of the crisis. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Henke, Grace, SC Bullock, Angelica Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of New York Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-10-28 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Mindy Gordon (Transcriber, Editor) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for reproduction or quotation must be obtained through written application to: Director of Archives, Sisters of Charity of New York, 6301 Riverdale Avenue, Bronx, New York, 10471. This permission is valid only insofar as the Archives of the Sisters of Charity of New York, as owner or custodian, has any rights in the matter and does not remove the responsibility of the author, editor, and publisher to guard against the infringement of any rights; including copyright, that may be held by others. 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Title A name given to the resource Heritage Hall, Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Subject The topic of the resource Museum Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Archival Center Description An account of the resource Heritage Hall, the Congregation's interpretive museum established in 1988, supplements the holdings in the Archival Center with its display of artifacts memorabilia and audiovisual materials documenting the heritage of the Congregation. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for any type of publication of archival materials, including text, photographs, video, or audio must be secured from the Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Archival Center before publication. Contact archives staff for appropriate forms and contact information. Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sisters of Charity of Nazareth https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/1a0a02ae8321afae5a46c49205796823.jpg 97c4ef393ed2027b0b9c8f20864a50f4 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/6379a8f53047c1076384acd299bd3f8f.mp3 941cbf4d91db64c2e7f447934191b920 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/fb5cf7ac97c2707abbe71d86548fb1b7.pdf ffe3cc9ff88fe7dcbfb7753fec6ca9e1 PDF Text Text Name of Sister: Sr. Dorothy Marie Hill [Excerpt] Format: Audio-Cassette (35-TC; #712) Original Recording: August 26, 2003 Interviewer: Sister Elaine Wheeler Transcriber and date of transcription: Elissa Armater, December 3, 2005 Which Daughter of Charity seemed to impress you most and sort of led you into the Community? No one Sister had any major influence. I applied. When I finally came to the Community, I finished college at St. John’s [University], and I don’t know why I became a Daughter of Charity. My ambition as I was finishing college was to be a cloistered nun, and I approached in very tentative ways both the Carmelites and the Trappestines. I really can’t at this length of time pin down why I became a Daughter of Charity. I remember looking at the time. There were no Sisters [referring to the Daughters] in Brooklyn or in New York. The whole difficulties between the black caps [Sisters of Charity of New York] and the white caps had kept them away. I remember looking up “Daughters of Charity” in the Catholic Encyclopedia and reading that St. Vincent’s telling them that “The Poor shall be your Office.” One of my great ambitions was to recite the Divine Office in choir as the cloistered sisters did, which was one of the reasons I wanted to be a cloistered nun. And that saying, which I have never seen any place else except that article in the Catholic Encyclopedia, impressed me very much. I joined the Community on September 8, 1951 as a postulant at Emmitsburg. We were the first band that made our postulatum at Emmitsburg and there were 38 of us. Postulatum was extremely disappointing to me. I had a very good time, but I felt as if I was in boarding school with a whole bunch of young kids because I was a mature woman at 21 and they were all 17 or 19! The seminary was more satisfying. My father was in awe of the whole thing, but my mother kept saying what a peculiar outfit this was. And she meant not just the clothing, which she found very peculiar, but the entire outfit. Everything about it struck her as funny or horrifying. I received the habit in January of 1953 and went to Seton High School very soon after that as my first mission. I spent 25 years teaching high school at Seton High School, at Bishop England High School in Charleston, South Carolina; in Portsmouth [Virginia; Portsmouth Catholic High School], in Syracuse [Cathedral Academy], in Petersburg [Virginia; St. Joseph’s School], and in Emmitsburg [Maryland; St. Joseph’s High 1 �School]. My 25 years of teaching were a delight. I enjoyed the subject matter, I enjoyed the children, and I think I was fairly successful. What subjects did you teach? Mostly English and later Religion. I had other things, as we all do, but those were the subjects I was prepared in and enjoyed teaching. I gave you a list of places I was, and they were all high schools. Most of them, either the Sisters aren’t teaching in the school anymore, as in Bishop England High School, or the school is closed. When I was thinking about saying all this, I began to think about how trendy my life has been. The closing of the schools that I attended and the schools I was taught at is one of the big marks of the history of the Church in the United States during these years, the 20’s through the 60’s. It certainly has affected my life but whether it has been for the good of the Church or for its loss, we’re too close to to really come to any well thought out conclusion, but my own history certainly does prove out. One of the great turning points of my life came right about the time that I finished thinking about teaching for 25 years. I went to Seton High School actually three times on mission – my first mission and then in the 60’s again. When Vatican Council II was just coming to an end – I think it ended in ’59? I think it’s closer to ’62. Sixty-two. At that time, when it was still in session, but very close to an end, I was at Seton High School teaching English. Sister Enrica Federal was the principal, and Sister Enrica, an innovator and very impulsive sort of person, and she decided it would be good to institute a real religion department as an academic unit rather than as a frill, which it was up to that time. Every Sister that had a home room taught religion, which meant that you really had no professional religion teachers. She decided that it would be good to make it an academic department and get a few people trained in the new trends that would be coming with the end of Vatican II. She went around, and she asked people if they’d like to study religion or theology. I had the sense to say yes, and three of us went. It was very delightful experience and a soul changing, life changing experience. Three of us from Seton High School in Baltimore went every Friday night by train. We went up to New York City, stayed at Kennedy [Child Study] Center [where Daughters were missioned], and on Saturday morning went up to Fordham [University] and took a course with the Novak Brothers [Joseph and Vincent Novak], who were Jesuits who were trying to form a Vatican II curriculum for high school religion departments. Every Saturday morning for a semester, we went up there and listened to the Novaks. One of the high points, one of the magnificent things that happened, one Saturday morning, Vincent Novack brought in the New York Times for that morning, and he read to us the unofficial translation of the Vatican document on the Liturgy. We were sitting in the back of the classroom, because we were still were wearing the cornette, and I sat 2 �and listened to Vince Novak and cried like a baby because it was so – it fulfilled all the aspirations and yearnings that I had had about Liturgy and what Liturgy should mean in our lives. That was only one of the great excitements. And sure enough through the next couple years, the religion classes at Seton became the equal of all the other classes and we had a religion department with a faculty and tried to form a modern Vatican II curriculum. Those days of the Council and of the post-Councillor changes – I don’t like to call them changes because it’s a more profound conversion than just changes – were probably the most exciting and hopeful optimistic days of my whole life because so many of the wishes and dreams and ideals that were hardly expressed or hardly recognized began to become true. Sister Cecilia Geary and I in I think it was 1964 went out to St. Louis to the liturgical conference, and it was the first time in the United States that a congregation, an assembly, at Mass had recited the Our Father in unison in English. With a huge stadium type meeting hall in St. Louis, so you had thousands of people all as excited as I was about Vatican II saying the Our Father together. Again, it was this exciting high point in individuals’ lives and in the life of the Church. For me, one of the big effects of all of this Liturgy and Bible study – that’s when I got into the Bible. I went to Catholic University for a couple summers in the religious education department and had a few Bible courses and just fell into Bible study. I didn’t go to school enough. I would have liked to have gone more, but I was not permitted to. But I’ve been able to follow on my own Bible study, and I must say, it has so enthralled me that, I’m more disciplined about Bible study than about any studying that I’ve ever done in my whole life. One of the effects of all this was that I came to the conclusion that I should not teach in high school any more because the service of the poor became more and more important and primary in my life. High school became more and more expensive so that the service of the economically poor was almost impossible. That’s when I decided that I would try change my ministry. I was lucky enough to come to the Northeastern Province where Sister Mary Basil [Roarke] at the time was the Provincial. She looked very kindly on those sorts of aspirations. So without too much ceremony, I was able to go to St. Mary’s Parish in Troy [New York] to become a Parish Associate. I went to St. Mary’s – I forget the year [1973-74 school year] – but it was the year St. Mary’s School closed, which was extremely traumatic on everybody because St. Mary’s for the Community was such an old mission. Sisters had been teaching there for 150 years or something since 1848. That hundred and more years had become so traditional, and for the Parish, the institution of the school was one of their great prides. They gave it up not just with reluctance but with hostility. That year in which the school closed was very traumatic, but it was a very happy year for me, because we had priests in the parish at the time who were very anxious to form a team ministry and to share ministry not just among themselves but with the whole Parish. We formed a team ministry of priests and sisters and lay people, seven people all together. I remained at St. Mary’s for six years. It was, for me, a very happy experience. 3 �Because of the freedom of that team ministry and the members of the team, I was able to minister in very untraditional ways. We did the traditional things. One of the joys was that I taught the First Communion class. I became sort of a a paralegal, an advocate for people on welfare, food stamps, SSI – Social Security – what have you, to help them negotiate those systems. These were the poorest of the poor, and Troy was rich in poor people. Again, it was a turning point in my life to discover the poor and to discover the joy. St. Vincent said, “The poor are my burden and my sorrow,” and I found that to be true, but I also found it to be true that the poor were my joy and my delight. As that period of my life ended, I was missioned to Boston to Laboure Center in South Boston. I was supposed to work there, but somehow I just didn’t fit in. I didn’t fit into South Boston, and I didn’t fit in very well to the work of Laboure Center. Just by accident, truly – I’m sure not accident, but providence, but it seemed very casual at the time – I met a group of people who were interested in serving the homeless, and we became friends, and eventually just very sweetly it worked out that we started a shelter for homeless families, the fist shelter for homeless families in Boston. Sister Adele Waters was part of the circle, and the other four founders were a Jesuit priest and three young graduate school students all in their twenties, very wise, very charming young people [According to the National Jesuit News, the three other founders were Father Andrew Sedensky, S.J., Patti Muldoon, and Mike Whelan]. By guess and by gosh, we managed to find the money to find a building, a parish rectory in Roxbury in Boston and to start Sojourner House. S-O-U-J-O-U-R-N-E-R, Sojourner. It was named for Sojourner Truth, one of the great heroines of the abolition movement and of Women’s Rights in 19th Century America. It was also named in honor of the Biblical concept of the Sojourner. In the Book of Deuteronomy, it speaks of the Sojourner in your midst that Israel must always look out for the Sojourner and take care of the Sojourner and not oppress the Sojourner even though that Sojourner is far from being an Israelite. That again was another high point in my life because we were penetrating further into the depths of poverty and into the depths of the wealth of the poor and the straights to which poverty can drive people. We finally, I think it was the fourth year of operation, when we realized we had a budget of $150,000. Up to that point, we had a few small grants, but mostly it was free will donations. I might mention here that both the Jesuits and Daughters of Charity gave the services of their members free. The Daughters of Charity never demanded any kind of salary or compensation and neither did the Jesuits for the work of the Jesuit priests. I spent six years working without a salary at Sojourner House. Actually, I asked to be missioned, because I knew if I stayed there much longer I wouldn’t be able to leave. What kind of people came to Sojourner House? 4 �Homeless families. Generally women and children. The husbands and fathers were either non-existent or were very shy about coming to live in a family shelter. So in general, it was women and their children who came. We did have a couple of fathers in the course of the years. These were people who were... At the time, the homeless problem in Boston was growing by leaps and bounds. The rental housing was becoming exorbitantly expensive. There was a great deal of gentrification of parts of Boston that had been low income. The rate of vacancy in rental housing was estimated at one percent, which meant that actually there wasn’t any. So that there were many, many families who were either doubled up with relatives or friends in horrible circumstances or actually living on the streets. We had one very beautiful young woman who came to us who was unmarried and had a child about 18 months old when she came to our house. When I asked her how long she had been homeless, she told us she had been homeless since she left the hospital with the baby. I said, “What did you do with a newborn baby and no place to go?” She said, “Oh, I left her here and there.” We had another woman who had two small children who was in somewhat the same straights. She used to leave her children at McDonald’s. She would go in and buy food and then leave them there and go about whatever business she had. One of the problems with being homeless is that, at the time, it was very hard for people to get welfare if they were homeless because the welfare system in its wisdom wouldn’t give them rent money because they were homeless and therefore they didn’t have to pay rent! So they ended up with literally nothing. To negotiate the ins and outs of welfare is a full-time job. These were the sorts of people that were referred to us. What happened was that we came to know the workers in the welfare department, and they would refer people to us that they were not able to help. So it was the lowest aspect of the welfare system were the people who were referred to us, and they were treated in exactly that way, as the lowest kind of human being. Sojourner House was a residential shelter in that we stayed open all the time. Nobody had to leave at 8 o’clock in the morning or anything like that because they were children, or the vast majority. We could only accommodate only six families at a time. We had part of a very old large old rectory, St. Joseph’s in Roxbury. People had all their meals there. When we finally managed to help them to get on welfare, they would give us a portion of their welfare money, which we banked for them so that they would have some kind of seed money when they were finally able to find a place to live. Our hope was that people would stay about three months, but it ended up that they had to stay six months or more because of the shortage of rental housing. I went from Sojourner House in Boston to Syracuse and really didn’t find a niche in Syracuse either. I lived in Syracuse and commuted to Cortland [New York], which is about 25 miles south of Syracuse and worked in a soup kitchen. I was part-time for the soup kitten and part-time for Catholic Charities food pantry. That was satisfying, but it was sort of a comedown from Sojourner House because it wasn’t as – nothing was as acute as the homelessness that gave rise to Sojourner House. 5 �Is Sojourner House still functioning? Sojourner House is still functioning. There are no Sisters or priests involved in the administration any more. It’s become totally lay. It’s independent. We incorporated, so it’s Sojourner House, Inc., and it’s independent. As far as I know it’s still functioning. I haven’t had any contact there in three or four years. I stayed at Cortland for about six years. The soup kitchen was in the Episcopalian Church in Cortland and I was fortunate enough to become very good friends with the rector of the Church and his wife [The soup kitchen was called “Loaves and Fishes.” It was located at “Grace & Holy Spirit Episcopal Church.” The rector of the church was Rev. William James Greer II]. They were very, very dear people. One of the high points of my stay in Cortland was that we formed an ecumenical prayer group. There was a Lutheran minister, a bachelor, and myself, and for a while one of the priests of St. Mary’s Parish in Cortland, and a few other people. We tried to meet once a month for an hour’s prayer session, which was very delightful because we all came from such different prospectives and were able to pray together and talk together in very intimate ways. 6 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Daughters of Charity, Province of St. Louise Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Wheeler, Sister Elaine, D.C. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Hill, Sister Dorothy Marie, D.C. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Cassette Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:34:11 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hill, Sr. Dorothy Marie, D.C. Oral History [Excerpt] Subject The topic of the resource Hill, Sr. Dorothy Marie, D.C.; Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul; Church and social problems--Catholic Church--History--20th century; Homelessness--Religious aspects Description An account of the resource Sister Dorothy Marie Hill describes the changes that took place in the Catholic Chuch and the Daughters of Charity after the Second Vatican Council and her work combatting houselessness in South Boston. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hill, Sr. Dorothy Marie, D.C.; Wheeler, Sr. Elaine, D.C. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Daughters of Charity Archives, Province of St. Louise, Emmitsburg, MD Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2003/08/26 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Armater, Elissa (Transcriber); Keefer, Scott (editor) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for any type of publication of archival materials, including text, photographs, video, or audio must be secured from the Daughters of Charity Communications Director before publication.ÿ Contact archvies staff for appropriate forms and contact information Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio/mp3; Application/pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Hill, Sister Dorothy Marie Oral History Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1951-2003 Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul Social Service https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/35463252038943ca2a4531d6977fc458.PNG 09e1ec28fd69a75dd62f621027604071 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/af4815eef8b8903abfc9fe9352436bf3.pdf ed9a084e8c32c85842c249c7bae48e3e PDF Text Text Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Rose Dolores Hoffelmeyer Transcribed January 18, 2021 RDH: Today is a national holiday, and so I'm taking advantage of this feast of Saint Rose of Lima in order to send this tape message to you. Sister Regina returns to the states tomorrow for meetings with the council and also for a visit with her family. And since she's going to San Diego to visit her brother who is sick, she offered to take something back to Bernice. And I thought, "Well, what can I send?" I've sent ceramics, I've given things that are golden, and --I don't know what else-- and things of silver. And so I thought, well, maybe she would just like to have a conversation with me, although it's going to be one-sided. I hope that I don't bore you too much. What I thought I might do is share with you a little bit of the place in which I work and am working right now, and some of the activities of the sisters with whom I work. And because last year was such a hectic year in so many ways and really historical for our community here, especially the community here in Santa Julia, and I just finished typing a long report of the year, a history of the year for the community. I thought maybe you too would like to hear some of what went on here. It's all past history now, and so I feel a little bit more free to talk about some of the things that happened. [00:01:34] I'm living and working here in Piura, which is the third largest city in Peru. Although it's a little over half a million people, the city itself and the barrios that surround it, this seems like nothing in comparison with Lima, for instance, which is the grandest city or the biggest city in Peru, and has some 18 million people in it today--in it and the barrios that surround it. But nevertheless, Piura, although it is a pretty good sized city, retains much of the flavor and the feel of a smaller city. Much of its population has come in the last 10-15 years, when many of the people from the Sierra have come to the coast looking for a better life. Unfortunately, they don't find much of a better life, but at least it's warmer and they can still subsist. Although, in this terrible economic crisis, it's very difficult for them. Many of them live in the surrounding area, as some of you saw in the television program that Francis told me about. Many of them live in straw huts or huts made of woven mats of straw. And this is the first stage, they invade a section of the terrain around the city and lay claim to the land. Sometimes they're driven off by the police, but that's more common in Lima than it has been here. If they can maintain their time there, I think it's for a year and are not driven off then they can lay claim legitimately to the land. And they begin to improve their house little by little as they can. [00:03:38] One of the places that I work, it's in a pueblo joven, or in a barrio in the northern part of the city—on the way out of the city—the last one on the route to Chulacanas. I passed it many times before when I was working in Chalaco, and of course never entered, but this area is one of the sections that has grown up in the last 17 years. Many our family members or close relations that have come close together, they go in and and set up their little houses, and then little by little �they improve them. One of the families that I've come to know quite well and that maybe may have a couple of daughters that will eventually enter the community and are working with me as catechists right now, this family had been living in Callao, which is the port city of Lima, had apparently had a pretty nice house, and the man had permanent work. But because his mother was alone and had responsibilities for a granddaughter, when the mother had died and the father kind of disappeared, this family opted to leave everything they had there in Lima and come back to this part of the country. They're living there in this little house, which is still constructed of many different things. Part of it is a brick. [00:05:32] The reason I stopped the tape for a minute is that the garbage truck was passing by. And you could probably hear the clanging of the bell as it approached and knew it would be very distracting, if nothing else. As it got closer to the house, as I was saying, this family lives in this house constructed of cartons, of boxes of refrigerators or whatever, of brick. It has pieces of tela that serve to divide the different rooms. And this is a better house than many of the people have to live in. They're improving their situation a little bit. The man has worked. He is a kind of traveling salesman. I don't know exactly what he is selling, but I know that he accosted me one day when I was in the Mercado as he was entering the stores taking orders for something or other. And so this family has improved their house little by little and added portions on to it. Many of them started out with just one little room in one little shack, and that's how they grow. What impresses me of this family is their interest in getting an education for their children. I think that's pretty true of many of their families. It's discouraging for us, because we know that many of them, even though they get a better education, would not be able to get better jobs. But when I was in the house most recently, one of the curtains was open between the little sala, or sitting room that you enter, and the next room, and I could see that they have a bookcase with at least part of a set of encyclopedias and some dictionaries and other things. They help their children. They have three who have graduated from high school now, the boy is studying in a tecnico, and the oldest girl really would like to enter the community. Was talking with us yesterday about it. And the second girl who just finished her high school last year, had earlier asked me if it would be possible to have some kind of experience with us. She has visited in the house before, and we're sending her this Wednesday for a three month experience in the center of formation in Chulacanas. Hopefully, she too will make her decision for whatever state of life that she wants to follow. This course in Chulacanas is geared to help them know more about the three states of mind and to improve their sense of dignity as women in the church. [00:08:52] It was interesting for me last week when I went to visit the the priest who is in charge of this pueblos jovenes in the northern part of the city. And his parish is in one of the wealthier sections of the city called Miraflores. He really discounts the Catholics of that section, even though they come to mass, have the children baptized and so on. But aside from that, they really don't make any contribution to the church and don't have any desire to work in the programs of the church. And he has a great belief great interest in the people of the pueblos jovenes, but he's really �divided because he has his parish. He's also a chaplain of the huge hospital of the state. He also has one to at least four or five of these pueblos jovenes, and then he goes out into Campo with his catechists to sections to help teach the people who are living farther out. So, and he's not a young man. So, he's really divided. Yesterday he was telling the people at mass in Los Meninos that from now on, he would not be able to say mass every Sunday there. He would have to divide his time between there and Primavera, because the priest who had been helping him, the Jesuits who'd been helping him, had been moved from the city. And so he would try to offer mass at Los Merinos every other Sunday, except for those weeks when he had to give his time to marriage encounter programs. Or if, for instance, when the bishop is planning to come soon to visit his parish, he won't be able to come. And it turned out it will probably be another month before he visits Los Meninos. But when I was visiting with him, and I had a real sense of his confidence in the people in the barrios, what he was saying to me is, those people really have nothing but their faith, that they really cling to their faith, and they do more in spreading the word of God than these people here around my parish ever think of doing. And I can't count on these people for hardly anything. Sad, isn't it, but it's a testimony. He said, they have everything they want. And they don't have much interest in, in the people who don't have anything. [00:10:49] The Archdiocese of Piura y Tumbes is located here in the northern part of Peru, and has a population of close to one million in total. About two years ago, the Archbishop finally got an auxiliary bishop to help him with the work, especially in the area of Tumbes. And Monsignor Augusto lives there in Tumbes and is in charge mostly of the work there. The people in Piura, as in many parts of Latin America, although they're about 98% nominally Roman Catholic, suffer a great lack of faith formation and education in their faith. Of course, this is due in large part to the scarcity of priests and religious serving their needs. I read some time ago that about 60% of the religious working in Peru still are foreigners, and remember, I told you in Chulacanas that was very evident. There were about 14 different countries represented there. In this area, there's a great scarcity of priests. There are about 37 priests serving a population of, as I said, about a million people. And many of those priests are, are concentrated in in the cities. There are about 11 or 12 parishes here in Piura itself, in the city of Piura, and also a seminary, and although there are only about three priests who actually give their time almost completely to the work there, there are others who who are engaged in doubled ministries, teaching in the seminary, maybe acting as officials of the Caritas, which is the food distribution program that's International, but also have large parishes to take care of. Because of the lack of priests and religious to help the people, to instruct the people, and because of the terrible economic situation that has existed here in the country for some years now, the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses, and the evangelical groups are trying to take advantage of the absence of the clergy and religious and are coming in and just bombarding the people, often giving large sums of earth, large amounts of food, attracting them with programs, setting up mini factories or helping the people in various ways, all of which is very good. But it's also almost a means of buying them away from the traditional church. And because many of the people have faith that is rooted in knowledge, and because of �their great need, real need for food and for clothing, etc., many of them have turned to these sects and other religions that have come into that the territory. [00:15:15] There are many Catholics who want to help to combat this, as you know, I've been working with what is called an evangelization program. Evangelizacion Dos Mil, or Year 2000. But the people have been crying for help, information of their own faith, because they themselves often don't have sufficient knowledge to answer the questions of the Catholic faithful, were really incisive, bombarded by the Protestants that are coming in. So one of the things that I'm doing is working with a program that the Archbishop has mandated for the Catholics who really want to improve their knowledge of the faith. It's an interparochial program, to give instruction in the Bible and in the realities of the faith or the doctrines of the faith. We just started it about two weeks ago. And we're hoping that each year, we'll be able to add other courses. We have an outline that goes for three years. I think that will really be necessary, or I hope that it will be necessary, to repeat these two introductory courses that we're giving this year, this August, from August to December, that we'll be able to give these courses another time next year, so that the people who have heard about them now, and who want to enter them, will be able to start the program at that time. I don't think it will be too late. And since the first two courses this year are introductory, and we'll continue with the introductory courses for the New Testament, and also for other doctrines in the faith next year, I think if we repeat those four courses a number of times then we'll have a really strong base of Catholics who can help their parishes. And always the major problem in realizing a program like this is lack of money. Although we don't need much of it, we do need to pay the priest who are giving extra time in this program and help to pay for the electricity that we use at nights because, often enough, we have to depend upon a motor or a generator, because the light or electricity in the city is so unreliable. And the gasoline is very expensive. We want to buy Bibles, and the new catechisms. I have trouble lots of times going back and forth from English to Spanish. But we want to buy some of those books and sell them at minimal price to the people, so that they will have them in their hands when the priests are teaching them. And also so that they can use them as points of reference later on. [00:18:45] So, one of the things that we're doing is applying to programs in Germany and in some of the places in the States to help us to gain some funding. I'm going to use some of the money that Mary Ancilla sent this past December, and that I still have on hand to help buy some of those books. Eventually I'll be able to pay back most of that money. Although, depending on how much they cost, because the people who are coming often are people who either have retired from their work, or maybe are unemployed looking for work, but want to give their time and helping the church, or they're mothers of families who go out to evangelize on weekends. And they certainly don't have money, because they can hardly put food on their tables. So, you might want to keep that in your prayers, this program in your prayers if you would, so that we can do all that we can for Catholics who can help their fellow Catholics, and from there, help the church to stay strong among its people. [00:20:09] �Here in the house, I live with an interesting group of people. It's sometimes hard for us to gather together because of the diversity of the programs that we're engaged in. Janet and Ruth work in a program that is archdiocesan, Pastoral de Salud, it's an office that has been formed and is meant to help the people be trained in the basic principles of health. Janet had her year of sabbatical about three, four years ago, got an additional degree--she is a nurse--got an additional degree in international health, and so has contacts with international health programs and came back knowing very well that you can't practice the 20th or 21st century medicine of the United States here in Peru. She's a great advocate of natural medicine, and she has organized promontories de salud, or promoters of health, in almost all the parishes here in Piura, and in many of the parishes in the Archdiocese. She also is in charge of programs that work with the food kitchens in many of the smaller caserios, and some of the areas here in Piura itself. What else does she do? Also, this program is gaining some funding to help what they call small working programs. [00:22:06] One of the things that she and Ruth are really excited about is that a group of women in one of the really poor areas were able to find us here in Piura and have been trying, wanted desperately to have a panaderio, or bakery, so they could make bread for the area and sell it for as cheap as they could. And they got the money from the state so that they could buy an horno, oven, and fermentation, whatever you call it. It's a big container. And they bought--one of the women here in Piura that has a fabrico, or a factory, that works in metal helped them in making the stands, and tables, and things that they needed, and charged them cost value really for what they did. And she also helped him a lot transporting things in her truck. And so that program is off and running now. There are about 12 women who work in it, and they're now in the process of taking turns on a three shift basis. Some of them prepare the batter. Others come back after it's raised and form the bread and get it baked, and the others come in to do the selling and merchandising. That's been a successful program. One of the other programs is the taller, or the workshop, that makes those silver articles that I have sent to Bernice and Francis, and they have had success too. They now have a contract with somebody in Argentina who buys the silver products and sells them abroad. So that's off and running and is giving employment to eight or 10 men there. [00:24:19] ..like in two different areas where the men make brooms and sell them in the cities, have contracts with some of the different cities around about. So they will buy them for the people who clean the streets, and that's also a working project. To the east of us, near Sullana, where there is a lot of fruit grown, they have set up a workshop or a factory to make marmalade of different fruits. And I see that it's being sold in various stores here in the city. And I think their hope is to export it to other areas too. So these are very important projects, because although they each one only gets work to about eight or 10 persons, it's an incentive for other people to try and to set up some of their other programs too, and to see that it is possible for a group of people to come together and do something to help themselves and help the people around them. One of the �projects that was not successful, and the group had great hope for, was a carpintero, or a carpenter shop for young men in one of the barrios here in Piura. And they started out again with about eight or 10 young men, and they were able to help them by the first wood that they would need, and then they got funding from one of the state programs to construct the house or the brick building in which they would work, and to put the techo on, the roof on. And they worked through all that. They had a professional carpenter hired to to teach these eight or 10 young men the profession. But unfortunately, little by little they lost interest. One of the things that they started out to make as their principal project was to make coffins, wooden coffins. Because the high mortality rate, there's always a demand for these coffins. But they didn't have a good method of publicizing their work, and they had a whole succession of problems. The man who was hired to teach them got discouraged with them and quit his job. And then they got another carpenter, and he worked for a while with them, then he got discouraged with them, and then they had to get somebody else. And then there was a robbery, and some of the tools were stolen. And anyhow, it was kind of a disaster. There are only two of the young men left, and they're in another taller learning from two men who have set up their own taller. But Ruth was really discouraged with this project. [00:27:49] Because of the nature of their programs in this office of salud, the two of them, Ruth and Janet have to do a lot of follow up work. And they visit all of these groups of women and men who are promoters of health throughout the diocese once a month. So that takes a lot of time in itself. They also visit the talleres and try to give spirit and life to them. They helped organize retreats. That's what they're doing today in Tumbes, which is a good six to eight hour trip away from here. They'll return about the middle of the night to Piura, and hopefully they'll be able to get some rest. One of the things that I have said to them is they often work weekends and days like today which are very honest, that they don't really take their time off during the week following, and I think they're going to burn themselves out. [00:28:55] And as I've said, I work with the office of evangelization, helping to give some guidance to the Peruvians who were left in charge when our sister Elena Mack, who was the director of the program left last year when she was elected to our council in the United States. And so although I don't know much about the courses that they offer, I've only made two of them. They respect my advice, and I help with some of the planning and I have to hold down the prices because we don't have much money to operate on. Before Sister left, they had received a good sized grant from the German bishops for this program, and we have used up the first part of that money and have not yet received the second quarter. [00:30:02] These programs really have given life and spirit to many of the people, and it's these people in many of the parishes who are now asking for the courses to deepen their faith. Courses in the Bible, courses in doctrine, and things like that. But I think that the two programs work hand in hand, and so I feel good about that. The other Sisters and then also Peruvians, sister Trini, who is �a very good friend of mine, and who worked with me in Chalaco earlier, is a full time student in a school to train teachers, that kind of a normal school here in Peru. She's in her second part of her third year. It's been great joy for me to see her growth and to see how she has really taken a liking for her studies. Although they're really demanding, too. She also helps a little bit with catechesis, and on the weekends, she goes with me to Los Meninos sometimes, and she also works on Saturdays for an hour and a half or so in a program for young people in the parish of Santa Rosa. [00:31:28] Mabel is a young woman who is in her second year of vows and works as the person in charge of the catechetical program for First Communion in Santa Rosa and in the two barrios that are attached to it here in Santa Julio and also in Nueva Esperanza this year, she also opted to teach about nine hours a week, something like that, in one of the secondary schools. It's a great contrast for her because this school, whose name is Mater Admirabilis and has a large statue that those of us who went to convent of the Sacred Heart know very well. This school is in a rather rich section of the town. And the girls who are in it are pretty spoiled, and really hadn't had much training in their religion. The woman that Mabel succeeded as teacher there, teacher of religion, I think was teaching more psychology and I don't know what else but not very much religion or her version of religion, more than the real thing. So Mabel has had a pretty tough time there this year. Of course, the students have resisted her demands that they put in some time. And she's trying to get them interested in helping out in their parishes. And of course, they haven't ever had that kind of an experience. Pretty soon she's going to have a retreat for them. And she asked the Office of Evangelization to help her with that, so it will be interesting to see if that has any real results. [00:33:26] This year, we also have living with us right now, a novice who is in her year of experience. She is a technical nurse, not an RN, and was a little bit older when she entered the community. And she's also going to be working with Janet and Ruth for pastoral salud. So she just came the end of July, and will be with us until December. Hopefully she will make her vows in March. When I returned last year, one of the first things that Janet told me about was that she accepted in January, I think it was, to be secretary general of Caritas. The Archbishop had asked her to take charge of it because there were apparently a good many corrupt activities going on within that organization, and he wanted to do some housecleaning. First of all he wanted to make sure that some of the accusations he was hearing were true. So she accepted the charge. That led to various difficult situations for her. One of the things that happened to her was that on the 23rd of May, before I came back, she was picked up by the Police and taken for an interrogation, by the National Police of Peru. The charge was that she was involved in siphoning off some of the [inaudible] from a truck that was bringing them from Caritas in Lima to Caritas Peru that several of the bags of wheat had disappeared. Well, she, of course was not responsible, but they questioned her for two hours and denied her the presence of lawyer during that time, so it was a very scary experience for her. And that wasn't the end of it, of course. They brought suit against �her in the court of law. And that hung over her head, because it was constantly put off the trial, or the hearings were constantly put off. The lawyers that she was able to get didn't seem to afford her much help. Finally, our superior here, she went to see the bishop again, and one of the things that he said was that she needed to know that for sure the people who take positions of authority are always going to have to suffer. Well, she did have to suffer a lot and we suffered with her, the anxieties of that program. One of the things she said was that she'd never noted until then how many times the Bible makes references to the state to justice until that period of time, and that so many of her times of prayer, when she was using the Bible, she came across these references. [00:36:57] As you will know, the Sendero Luminoso or radical communist group, they have been trying to take over the country. They're very active and very violent in many parts of the country. Things have quieted down substantially since the capture of Abimael Guzman last September. But until that time, there was a lot of activity, increasing activity here in the Piura area. Right before I came back, the ex alcalde and a professor of Piura was murdered as he was leaving his classes one night. And this caused a great deal of consternation, there have been a number of police who were killed also. In July of last year, we ourselves here in the house began to notice that we seem to be under observance too. There is a football field or a soccer field across from us, and frequently, there seem to be people on the platform there, observing us at night, or as we walked to mass or came back. We felt like we were being observed by some people, some young people who were on the corners. So we always try to go two and two. About the middle of that month, or the 20th or thereabouts, we received some pamphlets or flyers inside of our gateway one morning urging us to observe the declared strike of the Sendero Luminoso for the 24th 25th, I think it was, of July. We, of course, didn't intend to do that. And many other people were not observing it either. [00:39:04] On the morning of the 25th, it was a Saturday morning, several of us were still in bed, gratefully, about 630 in the morning. But we were awakened very rapidly with the explosion of a handmade or a house made bomb at our gateway. Janet and Ruth we're having breakfast in the dining room and were protected from flying grass because of the walls that separated them. But often enough, some of them would have been emerging to go buy bread or something in the morning. The bomb, although it was a small one, was strong enough to blow out the windows in the two rooms that faced the plant in the first floor, and some of those where the door that opens onto the chapel area up above. One of the sisters called the other house on a walkie talkie. We don't have a telephone here in Santa Julio, and Regina brought back walkie talkie so that we can communicate between the two houses. And the sisters there called for the police to come. But afterwards we, at least I, really laughed about what we were doing. Almost immediately, Janet and I grabbed brooms and and Ruth to start cleaning up. We said it was such a typical North American attitude. We started cleaning up the glass and sweeping and cleaning in general. And the people who had gathered outside the wall in the gateway said, "Madres, don't clean that up, �the police will want to see how it was and they will they'll want to investigate all the parts of it." [00:41:03] We were all very grateful that nobody was hurt. And although it was a cause of tension for us in the next couple of months, because we didn't know if there would be another attack of some kind. And we took extra precautions when we were going out to try not to be out at night. And certainly if we, because we have to go to mass in Santa Rosa, which is about four or five blocks away, and come back together because it often is dark by the time we get back. We never knew exactly why the attack was directed against us, but I think most of us thought and still think that it was because Janet was still in charge of Caritas and that this program does a lot to help the poor. And Sendero has always tried to disrupt programs that try that serve the poor because they want to cause greater animosity or greater discomfort among the poor so that they will join them in their rebellion. Some other people thought that perhaps it was because Susanna, who was living with us at this time, was teaching in one that was teaching in a college, or a High School close by here in Santa Julio, and that the Sendero didn't like the influence that she was having with the young people because they were also struggling to try to gain their attention, to gain them as supporters of their cause. But whatever may have been the cause, it was it was certainly a cause of tension for all of us in the months that succeeded. And some kind of funny things happened. One night we were in the [inaudible], praying together, it was again a Saturday night, and we were sharing the scriptures. And somewhere in the vicinity in the street, somebody set off a discharge. It may have been like a firecracker which they use often enough for celebrations. Or it may have been somebody shooting a gun, who knows, but all of us dived for safety in one way or the other. [00:43:25] Nothing much more happened as far as we were concerned until September. As you all know, on September the 12th this Guzman was arrested by the police and so the President of the Republic had called for a national day of thanksgiving on the 24th of September, which is also the feast of Our Lady of Mercy. And had asked that Peruvians put out the Peruvian flag to demonstrate that it is the only flag that has a right to fly in Peru. So I bought material and we had made up a flag of the country. And that morning I put it on a standard flying from the balcony of the second story. Meanwhile, we'd planned to go to Ayabaca for a kind of past time and the sisters had planned that before I came back, but I had a bad cold and so I decided to stay at home because Ayabaca's a very cold area and I didn't want to travel for eight nine hours and then be in the cold and come back worse. So I was going to be here by myself and Maria was visiting from Chalaco at the time and she stayed with me, and the night of the 24th we went to mass in Nuevo Esperanza and when we returned to our surprise and horror we found some other pamphlets of Sendero inside of our gate. So she called Regina on the walkie talkie, and Regina called the police. And because she didn't have a car at the time, the other Sister was out in the barrios, working still with prayer groups. She asked the police to come by the house and pick us up so �that we wouldn't stay here overnight. But we waited and waited and nobody came, so finally she came in a taxi cab. We'd called a second time to say the police had not come. [00:45:33] Gratefully, nothing materialized from that warning. They were unhappy with us, of course, that we were participating or upholding the state, what they called the ancient regime. Kind of sounds like the French Revolution, doesn't it. Shortly after that, the group that works against terrorism, a place that was specially formed to work against terrorism, picked up a number of leaders of Sendero here in Piura and in the northern part of the country, including three from the barrios directly around us from Santa Julio and Nuevo Esperanza, one of whom was a professor and one of whom was a person who worked in an office where he had access to a mimeograph. And with that, really, things quieted down a great deal. Piura has had almost no activities of Sendero, although some of the outlying districts including some of the pueblos there close to Chalaco had seen activity of Sendero in recent months. But the police are slowly but surely doing a mop of activity. [00:46:52] One of our great concerns right now is that some of the people who are being accused of being Senderos are not guilty. In fact, one of the priests from the Archdiocese here is in the jail in one of the cities south and west of here, waiting trial accused of being a terrorist. His brother earlier had been picked up and accused. And the accusation against this priest is that... The mentality of the government, in this year is that anyone who even helps the families of those who are accused of terrorism are themselves terrorists. They call them members of the group. And they support or have help. And they picked up lawyers who have defended the rights of the people to have a fair trial. They have picked up teachers and others who have picked up collections to help families in need. This all makes for a very difficult situation, as you can imagine, because we all certainly want to see the terrorists picked up, but we also want to see justice done. The Office of peace and justice for the Archdiocese is very busy trying to help determine who seem to be innocent and trying to help to develop cases in support of them, but it's a very difficult job. Just the other day, the nephew of this Bishop of Tumbes was picked up in the headlines here in our papers and certainly in Lima, who was picked up in Lima as a terrorist. And of course, in the paper itself, it named the Bishop as his uncle... [00:49:03] ...and convicted of being a terrorist. But while he was in prison, this Bishop had denounced the government authorities for torturing him. And so it is a difficult situation in the country. I felt really badly for the bishop. They also thought maybe this publicity isn't all so bad because so many families are suffering like injustices, and at least they know that not even a bishop is immune to accusations or to calumny because of the activities of members of his family. [00:49:57] One of the things that has struck me as strange during the time of tension, and much more so now is that with all of this life goes on, almost as usual. We eat, we sleep, we work, the sun is �still shining, birds are still flying and singing. And it all makes for an atmosphere of unreality. Because we know that while everything seems to be very peaceful and quiet and going very well here, in some parts of the country, there was very great violence. Last week, there was an attack on some indigenous or Indian peoples of the Amazon area that had collaborated with the government. And Sendero killed about 58 of them, went from village to village. Now the federal forces or the state forces are in trying to capture them. And we know that there's a lot of injustice being done on both sides. One of the things that Peru is saying, in fact, de Cuellar, who was the Secretary General of the United Nations, is living back here right now, denounced Amnesty International, because they're always very quick to draw attention to injustices of the government but say almost nothing about what Sendero is doing. Janet, on the other hand, feels very strongly [inaudible] government and she suspects them of almost everything and so it makes a lot of uncertainty in the country. I'm sure that our views represent what's going on in a throughout the country. [00:52:10] Now I'd like to share with you one of the funnier story stories of the year. As I said, things go on, life continues regardless of what is going on in the political scene. And last year, in the end of September, the first part of October, Esther, who lived in Chalaco, was to be operated and was operated in the clinic of Roma, which is a private clinic here in Piura. And some of the sisters in Piura had decided to take turns staying nights with her because the clinic was understaffed. And this particular day of the first of October, Ruth left the house and went to the clinic. But as she got off the bus, she stepped into a pothole, of which there are a great many. She fell very hard, and was hardly able to get up but did so. And fortunately, there was a young man passing whom she knew. And she called him to give her some help. So first of all, she sat on a bench for a little bit. And then with his help, she walked to the clinic which was in the same block. There she asked the receptionist to go up to the second floor and to tell the persons who were staying with us there that there was a sister down below looking for them and they should come down. Julia, a novice, and Trini went downstairs and found Ruth suffering a great deal. She could hardly work and she had scraped her arm, but it was her hip that was bothering her the most. And of course she couldn't go upstairs. And so they call the other house and asked for one of the other sisters to come. So both Regina and Donna Jean went down, Donna Jean to stay with Esther and Regina to take Ruth to another clinic to see if they could find a doctor who would take care of her, examine her. [00:54:32] Regina went to look for a taxi. And you'd have to know the condition of many of the cars about right here. We all laughed one day when one of the taxistas said with horror that he had heard that they throw away cars in the United States. And that's true. The cars that they throw away up there many of them I'm sure land down here and keep on operating for some 10 years afterwards, or more. Well as Trini [inaudible], the car which they took that night was old. And it began to stop and start and didn't want to start up again, and the chauffeur got out of the car and put more gasoline, they often carry a gallon of gasoline in their trunk, put more gasoline into the car. But �still, the motor wouldn't start. Regina was really preoccupied that the clinic was going to close and so she decided to leave this car and go rapidly in another car. But she couldn't get out of the car because the door was stuck. And she was trying to push it open and was tugging at it with both hands and then the chauffeur got out. And he pulled on it from the outside. And finally she was able to get out of the car. And she got a motor taxi, like a like a rickshaw in the Orient only with a motorcycle that does a lot of work here in in the cities of Peru. And now she took one of these motor taxis to the other clinic and met the doctor as he was leaving his office and asked him if he would please wait because the sister was coming in the other car. And she explained what had happened. Well Trini and Julia also wanted to take another car, but the chauffeur kept insisting No, his car was going to start up and asking them to wait just a little bit more. And of course, it was very painful for Ruth to move in and out of cars. And so Julia, nevertheless left the car and went to look for another taxi. At the same time that she left the car, this old car started up and start moving. And Trini looked behind and here was Julia, who was a little heavy, running behind the car trying to get back into it. And I guess it was like a comedy. [00:57:07] Well, she did manage to get into the car. And when they arrived to San Miguel, they asked the chauffeur not to turn off his motor in case the medico had already left and Ruth wouldn't be able to go in. But Julia went inside, she saw Regina, and she said that the doctor had said to go to this other consultorio to have x-rays taken and that he would wait until they got back with them. So that's what they did. Fortunately, Ruth did not have any broken bones, and her hip wasn't broken but was badly bruised. And so he gave her some medicine and sent her to the house with a prescription to get a lot of rest and not to try to move out of there for several days. [00:57:57] We lost three North Americans last year, who returned to the United States. And so for the first time this year, with the entrance of two young women in August, on August 15 of this year, Peruvians outnumber the North Americans who are here in Peru. One of the sisters who went back celebrated her 60th anniversary as a religious this year. And she began to suffer problems with her back and arthritis in general with her knees. And so although she didn't want to go back, it was really better that she did so, and she's living at the Motherhouse now, but still going out somewhat. [00:58:54] One of the other sisters who went back was a younger person, younger than I, who came down just about two or three years ago and had been secretary for Mary Kathleen, before she came down. Anna had wanted to come to South America for a long time. And the community had asked her to stay on for quite a while in the United States. She was director of one of our high schools was director of Hogan when I was working as counselor. And later on she was director of one of the schools in Leavenworth. And then as I said she became Secretary for Kathleen. And that was a big sacrifice for her because she finally got permission from Mary Kevin to come down. And then when Kathleen was elected and the Sister who had served as Secretary for Mary Kevin died of cancer very shortly thereafter, Kathleen asked Anna to stay on. Well, Anna, �although she had wanted to come for so long, had a hard time adapting to the situation here in Peru. And Mary Kathleen really needed her still as secretary, and so she went back to reassume that position there. [01:00:20] And before that, maybe six months before that one of the other sisters who had been here for four or five years, also went back and is working with Spanish speaking people there in the States. The despedida, or the farewell party for Rose Celine was to be on the 23rd of January. And we had all been invited to come over to Negritos for the celebration, to say goodbye to her and to have dinner with the sisters there. As some of you know, one of the really sad things that happened for our house took place that day when four of us from Santa Julia got off the bus to go to Negritos. When we were walking to catch the other bus for that little trip, some one man came up to Trini and offered his sympathy to her. And she didn't know that her father had died early that morning, very suddenly, it appears to be a cerebral hemorrhage. And so she was shocked of course. Two the other sisters came by shortly after that with a car and Joan picked her up and took her to her family home. Maria was driving the small pickup truck from Piura. And she didn't know about her father's death until she arrived in Negritos. The rest of us went by the family home to offer sympathy, but then went on over to Negritos to, quote, celebrate. Of course, there was a pall over the celebration. And after we had dinner and had given our farewells to Rose Celine, we returned to the home of Trini. And the sisters came back two Piura that night because they, of course, hadn't brought clothing with them. I stayed on because I had planned to stay the weekend in Talara. The others returned the next day for the funeral. [01:02:48] Those are some of the highlights of the year past. And something of the environment and the situation in which I live. Hopefully it wasn't too boring for you. Bernice, I'm going to ask you, if you will, to take these two 60 minute tapes and make one 90 minute tape for Fran. And I don't know whether Mary might find it interesting to have a tape also, since she was so interested in one I did in Chalaco. And she has been very good in helping our mission since that time. I was so pleased to have the letter from Janice that she wrote there at your house. Gave me a little start I must say to find her writing a letter from your address when I hadn't heard from you for so long. Until I could open the letter I was really concerned that maybe something happened to you. But it's really glad that she took the time to write, and I'm going to drop her a note too. I love you all, and I'll be writing. Bye. � https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/e30a2180fa13e74a421ee69ab377e46c.mp3 eac12bf904b1f892e90dd71f19c17281 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Hoffelmeyer, S. Rose Dolores Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Cassette Tape Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:01:36 Location The location of the interview Digital Sisters Files Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hoffelmeyer, S. Rose Dolores, Letter from Piura, ca. 1980's Subject The topic of the resource Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth; Peru; Piura; Description An account of the resource Sister sends an audio letter home to Leavenworth from her time in Peru. She describes life in Piura, a small city, and some of the families she has met and worked with. She talks of her work with a program designed to help provide some religious education to the local Catholic community. She mentions other Sisters working in programs related to health, food kitchens, and helping locals start businesses or find employment. She also describes the challenges of working in this area. There were relatively few priests and religious for the land area and population served. Electricity was often unreliable, and there were times of political and civil unrest, notably leading to a small bomb left at the gates of their home. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hoffelmeyer, S. Rose Dolores Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1980's Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource All rights belong to the Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Audio Letter Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Hoffelmeyer, S. Rose Dolores Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Early 1980's Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Audios Education foreign mission Healthcare Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/b90c4684cdf1a87030d199f21238f375.PNG 46a41d0b311df2ec8f9e0abc5ace94c9 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/d411e2019c112e9662b727ac925d29db.mp3 ea2611fc68b75bb96856f7f3fc4d8bfe https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/4ffdc043e100847e35d5cc77e6eecfd8.pdf 8dbd9716db7db931c18662eb6e26ca26 PDF Text Text Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 1 of 17 JK: This interview is with Sister Margaret Hogan. The interviewer is Jane Kenamore. We're at the Sisters of Charity Mother House in Leavenworth, Kansas, and the date is June 26, 2017. Sister Margaret, where were you born and raised? [00:00:20] MH: I was born in Butte, Montana… JK: Oh, you were born in Butte. Ok. MH: …on December 10th, 1936, 12/10/36. JK: What was it like to grow up in Butte? [00:00:36] MH: One of the Sisters who grew up in Butte also, the other night we were saying what it privilege it was for us to have that Butte background, because it is one of great simplicity, but the people there are survivors and hardworking people, and we did learn the value of family, faith, and we learned how to work. JK: I'll get to the faith and work in a minute, but first can you tell us about your family, your parents and your siblings? [00:01:16] MH: My dad was a worker, was a laborer, worked in the mines for his entire life and provided well for our family and worked hard. My mother was a stay-at-home mom. And I often think of this in this day and age. I don't ever remember coming home from school, from grade school through high school, without having my mother there in the house. And I remember her saying when we were older, she said, "There were times when I wished my name was Mudd because with the five of you coming in the door and the first thing you'd be hollering, 'Mom, where are you?'" She just might be upstairs or folding laundry or doing something else. So, she was a wonderful woman as my dad was. They both worked together well and raised five children, three boys and two girls. And our faith life was very important to us. We were part of the Immaculate Conception Parish, and Mom and Dad lived there their entire married life, and they were both buried from there. And for me that's still my sacred spot. I know last December I celebrated my 80th birthday, and people kept on saying, "What do you want to do to celebrate? This is a significant birthday." And I just wanted it to be a quiet day. And, in the meantime, my nephew and his wife sent me a picture that had been photographed by one of her brothers, and it was of the church in the parish where I grew up. And I remember all day long, that was a very quiet day where I could sit and be grateful for my past and with a great deal of prayer for the future. And that church is still, for me, it's… JK: And it still is in existence? [00:03:38] �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 2 of 17 MH: Oh, yes it is, and it's a magnificent structure. It was built many years ago. Probably I was at first grade, I think, maybe one of the first communion classes from there. But it still is just a very special place in my life and in the life of my family. JK: A couple of other Sisters grew up in Butte also, and I don't know if they were in the same parish as you, but they said the church was truly the center of their lives. MH: Yes. JK: They did everything. They socialized. They went to church. Everything was connected. Was it that way in your life? [00:04:26] MH: Oh, very much so. Very much so. I think that's one of the questions you asked about is significant Sisters in my life. And I think the Sister who was a BVM… Our school was taught by the Sisters of Charity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the first eight grades. And they were very special people in my life. And when I was in high school I always belonged to their, what they called a sodality at that point. JK: And what was that? [00:04:55] MH: The Sisters were always a part of that. It was just coming together for socially and just a supportive group of people. And Sister Mary Maxine was my seventh grade teacher, and she is the one that I kept in touch with for many years, and then I kind of fell out of keeping in touch with her. And then one year when I was teaching in Topeka, Kansas I received a letter from her, and she must have found my address. And so we kept in touch for many years. She died just a couple years ago. And I was always sorry I didn't get back to her Mother House to see her because she was a real strong person in my life, a very quiet person, but very affirming and very supportive as was Sister Mary Seraphim who was the principal at our high school. And she was that quiet, elegant woman who was always there for me in high school years as well as in community years. Throughout my time in religious life she was always present and always there to talk to and sometimes challenged me in many ways. JK: Oh, really. How did she do that? [00:06:18] MH: Just to be my best self. JK: Ok. MH: Yes. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 3 of 17 JK: And Sister Mary Maxine—what would you say she gave to you? [00:06:26] MH: I would say presence, just being there and affirming me for who I was. Both of those women, I think, did the same thing for me. JK: Did you have contact with them when you were making your decision to become an SCL? [00:06:46] MH: You know my decision just flowed from the inner being. I was very fond of both communities and I always thought about entering the BVMs but never did because I never did finalize it. After I graduated from high school I was still young because I was a December birthday. So I decided to work and see where it all went. And nothing, you know, not that I had anything against the BVMs but it seemed like… I went down to see Sister Mary Seraphim one night and said I wanted to enter the community, and she said, "Well, all right, Margie, I'll send all your information to Dubuque." And I said, "No. I think I want to send it to Leavenworth." So, I said, "If you get everything ready then I'll be there in August." You know at that time we had to do our aprons and our long underwear and our slips and all those things, and she was able to do all the background and I showed up. And here I am 63 years later. JK: That's wonderful. What were your expectations of living in a religious community? [00:08:11] MH: You know I did not have expectations. I think the Lord has blessed me with being open to what is today. I just knew that I wanted to be of service in a different way. I had a wonderful year working after high school, but I just always felt there was something more and as I prayed not for a vocation or anything else… But, anyway, this—it just seemed to happen. JK: And what was your first mission? [00:08:48] MH: Blessed Sacrament in Kansas City, Missouri. JK: And what did you do? [00:08:52] MH: I was a teacher of third grade. And I followed that class, third grade, fourth grade, sixth grade, seventh grade for a couple of years. JK: Wow. And how many students did you have in the class? Was it a large class? [00:09:09] MH: Oh, there were times where there wasn't room in the classroom for a teacher's desk. JK: Oh, my gosh. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 4 of 17 MH: So, it was in those days when you had a full classroom, like 40 or 50 students. JK: How did you manage those students? [00:09:27] MH: I love teaching, and I found it a wonderful opportunity to help other people, to reach into other people's lives. And, you know, in those days it was fortunate to live with other Sisters who were crackerjack teachers. So, you always had assistance if you needed further assistance as to how to handle a class or how to teach a class. And those were the good old days where you had many people who were available. JK: Do you remember any one in particular who gave you the most help or gave you a good bit of help? [00:10:09] MH: Probably not so much in those days. It was just generally all of the Sisters who lived in that community, 'cause we had studied together and we had classes on Saturday that were always helpful. So, it was just lots of good help. JK: Oh, that's good. What did you like most about being an elementary school teacher? [00:10:44] MH: I was really blessed with good principals who taught me a great deal. Probably my last years in teaching were very… I still remember… Sister Lynn Casey was my principal in Topeka. And Lynn really taught me to believe in myself as a good teacher. She affirmed my gifts very strongly and challenged me to be my best self as far as teaching was concerned. And I remember one day sitting teaching, in fact, it was a religion class, and I remember sitting on a bench in front of… doing something. I thought I no longer have to work to prove myself. I am a good teacher. And that was a wonderful feeling for me because, I think, in the past I always thought I had to compete with this person or some other person to work to be your best self, 'cause I worked with some really good teachers. JK: What were the greatest challenges? [00:12:08] MH: Just to keep up with… (Laughs) Junior high students are not easy to keep up with, but I love that age level. And I think if they're with you, they're with you, and if they're against you, they're against you. And I always felt really… And I still love to work with junior high kids in our Religious Ed. programs. I always welcome that opportunity. JK: Did you teach all the subjects in junior high? [00:12:43] MH: For some years and then towards the end of my time in teaching in school I predominantly taught English and Literature or Religion, one of the others. Once I decided to move into looking into counseling in the elementary grades, because the longer I was in school the more I realized �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 5 of 17 there was a need for counseling in the elementary schools. And we didn't have any counselors at that time. JK: It wasn't a common thing… MH: No. JK: …back then. [00:13:21] MH: No. So, then I did part-time in the junior high teaching subject matter and then part-time working in counseling with the little people, and that was a great balance for me. It was kind of fun to be able to work with big kids as well as little kids. And I love teaching, and I think everything that I have done since then in my work, because I do a lot of work in parish ministry and retreat work and spiritual direction, but I have to say that the groundwork is teaching. And everything that I've done from that time on kind of has flowed from that experience. JK: What were the issues that you ran into in counseling? Where were you teaching when you went into counseling? [00:14:20] MH: Most Pure Heart in Topeka. JK: Oh, ok. And what were the issues that the children were dealing with? [00:14:28] MH: I think at that point just helping people to believe in themselves in their own personal dignity and self-concept always and then to work with parents on being consistent in how they handle children and teachers as well. Sometimes what a child would do on Monday may not begin to bother a teacher until Friday when they were tired. So, just to kind of work in that area of understanding why we do what we do and how we do it. JK: That's interesting. Did you ever have a teacher and a student together or a parent and a student together? [00:15:21] MH: Sometimes, yes. JK: Was that effective? [00:15:25] MH: Usually. I mean, yes. That's why you brought them together to help it be effective. Yes. JK: How long were you in counseling then? [00:15:40] MH: I have a degree in counseling in 1977, I think. So, I did the counseling in the school for probably three years, and then I did some counseling when I moved back to Montana in the junior high. But most of my work was in religion when I was at North Central in Butte. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 6 of 17 JK: Oh, ok. Let's back up. Not too long after you joined the SCLs Vatican II instituted many changes in religious practices and in life in general. Which changes did you welcome? [00:16:39] MH: You know I was very fortunate to be in parishes where Vatican II was brought in carefully, and we had the opportunity to study and to become a part of that process. So, for me it was not a negative experience at all. It was a learning experience. It was always growth-filled. And I had the opportunity to be a part of it, to be a part of the liturgical growth in our church. And I worked with some wonderful priests and Sisters and also made myself available to all the ongoing education that was happening at that time. So, it wasn't a negative experience for me. JK: No, no. Which changes did you welcome? What were some of the specific changes that meant the most? [00:17:42] MH: Oh, the changes in the liturgy especially. JK: In the liturgy. MH: Yes. JK: Like what, for instance? [00:17:46] MH: The Mass in English. The opportunity for lay people to be involved in liturgical planning, carrying out the ministries in the liturgy, the greater emphasis on the sacraments, especially the Sacrament of the Sick. Of course, I do a lot of work with hospital visiting and hospice work, and I feel like that sacrament is just so important in our life and sometimes we don't give it the attention that it needs to be given. JK: So, how was it less important prior to Vatican II? [00:18:27] MH: I think we saw the Sacrament of the Sick only given when you're really close to death. JK: Oh, I see. MH: And the Sacrament of the Sick now is given… You know I find people in our parish now, for instance, and in the past that if they're going into have surgery they invite their family and their close friends to come and celebrate that sacrament with them, and it gives them the courage and the health to move forward with a greater strength. JK: But some of these changes were difficult for some people to accept. What changes were more difficult to accept for some people, not for you? [00:19:19] �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 7 of 17 MH: Well, I'm sure the changes in the liturgy were very difficult for some people. I know for my mom it was the greatest thing where she could take a hat off. I could just see her throwing it into the back of the car and she never had to put it on again. JK: (Laughs) That's right. Because everybody wore hats. [00:19:46] MH: Everybody wore hats, but my mother was very happy to take the hat off. JK: So, what were some other changes like that? [00:19:55] MH: I'd have to think a little bit harder. That was a humorous one that I can think of. JK: Right. That's good. That's good. So, your mom was happy with at least the hat change. (Laughs) [00:20:18] MH: My mother was… she loved everything about the church and the changes were welcome to her as well as to my dad. JK: So, she was probably a flexible person to begin with. [00:20:31] MH: Oh, yes. And people loved her and she loved them. And there was no judgment in her. JK: Oh, that's good. In the 1980s you moved into parish ministry. Where were you assigned, and what did you do? [00:20:53] MH: I'm still in parish ministry, and I moved to… I was in Butte from 1980 to 1983. And then 1983 I moved to the parish where I work now. JK: Oh, my goodness. MH: I work in a parish and I do home visiting. I do hospital visiting. I do spiritual direction. I do a little bit of everything. And the first year I came there the priest that I came with was a classmate of mine from… and we both moved in the same year in 1983. And so I worked with Father Ray Gilmore for 16 years, and then he left to take a new assignment, and then eventually died very quickly. And then Father Jack Darragh came, and he was in Hamilton for 12 years, and I worked with him for those 12 years. And, of course, if somebody's been there a long time you end up… They had not had a Sister before, so a lot of what was happening were things that I had developed. And then Father Darragh was there for 12 years and retired. And we have a priest there now, Father Jim Connor, who is there now. And I'm still there. JK: And you're still there. [00:22:24] �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 8 of 17 MH: Yes. And I'm also a spiritual director and I've had the opportunity of being trained in Jesuit spirituality at Creighton University. So my master's is in Christian Spirituality with a retreat emphasis. So, several years after I was there, the parish, diocesan parish, but staffed by Jesuits, who were starting the spiritual exercises in everyday life, and they asked me if I would be willing to mentor some of their spiritual directors. So, I've been doing that for more than 20 years also. And I kind of have a day once a month that I either go into Missoula for the mentoring and on the days that I don't do that, on the Wednesdays that I don't do that, I work in our food pantry, which is also a wonderful opportunity 'cause I work with people who do a marvelous job, and they're all volunteer men and women. So, it's my outreach day. JK: Oh, that's good. MH: Yes. JK: Are there any other SCLs working in the same area as you? [00:23:48] MH: No. JK: No. So you're by yourself. MH: Sister Mary Jo Quinn lives in Missoula which is 44 miles from where I live, so we do get together often. And then there are Sisters in Helena and Butte. You know I've had some wonderful community experiences, and I know some of the questions come after that, but I have to say it now in case you don't ask it. When I had the opportunity to go to Hamilton I knew I would be living by myself which is not the most appealing thing in the world. But I could not have done it if I did not have such good community experiences and especially in Topeka and Butte and Kansas City. I really have a lot of affirmation and I have a lot of support. And I make great effort to keep in touch with our Sisters who live in the area as well as friends that are here in Kansas. So, I don't feel like I'm separated from community. JK: That's good. MH: Yes. JK: And then you have other connections in town, not Sisters but surely people that you have worked with for a long time. [00:25:09] �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 9 of 17 MH: The lay people are just… I guess that's why I'm (inaudible) 33 years. They're marvelous people. And I think that's another thing the Vatican Council did for us. The lay people are able to do their part in the church. And we have a parish where they really do their part. JK: That's great. MH: Yes. JK: What have you enjoyed most about parish ministry? [00:25:37] MH: Oh, I think for me working with people and seeing their generosity not only in parish work but on hospital boards which I'm on. I've been on two of our hospital boards of the community. And seeing the generosity of those men and women who gather every month on a hospital board is just a profound experience. JK: What other specific experiences have you noted that have been really rewarding in parish ministry? [00:26:26] MH: Again, the Sacrament of the Sick has been extremely important to me, to be with people in their hospice days. We're seeing how much they hunger and thirst for that, even people who have been away from the church for a long time. The grace of that sacrament has touched me deeply. JK: Oh, that's good. Now, you work with the priests. Do they also…? [00:27:04] MH: They better. (Laughter) JK: Or is it mainly your job to visit the sick? [00:27:12] MH: I try to bring them into it. The first two were really… that was their gift, especially the second one. He's retired now, but he does hospital ministry better than anybody I've ever worked with. JK: Oh, really. MH: And if you called him at four o'clock in the morning he'd be there at 4:05. The present priest I think tries really hard and he does, but not as genuinely as I'd like to see it happen. (Laughter) JK: We won't tell anyone, especially him. [00:27:54] �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 10 of 17 MH: You don't have to put that on that board. No, he's very good, but because I'm usually the first one at the hospital… But I make a real effort to be sure to include him in anything because we can't do that. But I can certainly see that this is the time where this person really needs that sacrament. So, no matter what time of the day it is, I do call and it's in God's hands once I've tried to… JK: If he's not able to come can you…? [00:28:40] MH: No. JK: You can't. MH: No. The Sacrament of the Sick is reserved to the priest. JK: Oh, not even in an emergency. [00:28:51] MH: Not even in an emergency. JK: Oh. Ok. So, that's one thing Vatican II forgot to do, right? [00:28:59] MH: You know I often think the more I've done this kind of work it's like it would be nice to be able to do that because there are times when… And Father's really good if I tell him somebody's there the present priest is someone… I'd say, Jim, so-and-so is in the hospital and I think this is really important that they have the Sacrament of the Sick. He will honor that, and I think just because I… I usually find myself going to our hospital every day, and because when you're there that long you know some of these people over the years. And I've been there since 1983, so. JK: Despite living a distance from the community you're very much a part of the community. How has it helped you over the years, especially in the years that you really have been living mostly separately from the community? [00:30:11] MH: I'm living in a dwelling that isn't part of a house, but I'd have to say I bet I have more community spirit than some living in houses with several people. That's a judgment on my part, I know. (Laughter) MH: I really do keep in touch with people and I welcome people to come. I live in a beautiful place, and I have access to some very nice places where people can come and retreat or relax or renew, whatever you want to call it. And the people are very generous in offering hospitality. So, I think it's been a two-way street for us. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 11 of 17 JK: That's good. So, you have friends in your area that offer hospitality to the Sisters? [00:31:11] MH: Yes. JK: Oh. That's nice. MH: It has been very nice and some very nice places as well. JK: Oh, really. That's even better. How is prayer reflected on the community and on yourself as well? [00:31:20] MH: You can't be a spiritual director if you're not willing to enter into the process yourself, so prayer is extremely important to me. Eucharist is extremely important to me, and there's seldom a day that I don't celebrate Eucharist in the parish. And I miss it when we don't have… you know if Father's away or something of that nature. But prayer is my life. JK: And what have you learned from living alone geographically? [00:32:19] MH: I know. I think the importance of being in touch. People can choose to live alone as a getaway. People can choose to live alone and yet not be lonely. And I think there are times where you have to… I don't feel that loneliness because I think I'm connected with other people, and I certainly avail myself to be with them. Whenever I've done some work with our deacons in their formation program and one of our Sisters worked… we both were a part of it, so that was a fun experience to go through those five years of preparation. But each month I met not only with the deacons and their wives but also with the Sister that was part of the process. And that was nice. JK: That's good. Can you give some specific examples of working with them? [00:33:31] MH: With the deacons? JK: Yes. MH: Oh, they were a tremendous group. We are so blessed in our diocese to have these last 20 men and women, and the women of course had to go through… not had. I mean they had to but they profited so much from the opportunities. And it's sort of like after being an eighth grade teacher for so long, I always feel so excited when I look up in the sanctuary at a big Chrism Mass or something and one of the deacons who was ordained from that group is one of the deacons at the Mass. I feel a certain sense of pride in them because I'm partially responsible. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 12 of 17 JK: That's right. Now, were the deacons some of whom can be, I mean, married right? [00:34:28] MH: Oh, yes. They're all married. JK: Was that a change with Vatican II or did that exist before? [00:34:34] MH: These are the (inaudible). I don't know how to explain it to you exactly. But before ordination to priesthood they go through a deacon, but these are not permanent. These are permanent deacons now, and they were already married before they… JK: Right. But they're going to be deacons forever. MH: Yes. JK: They're not going on into the priesthood. [00:35:00] MH: No. Oh, no. JK: That's what I understood. MH: No, no. JK: So, did the church always accept married deacons then? [00:35:12] MH: No. JK: They were going to be deacons permanently, not going into the priesthood. [00:35:17] MH: I don't know about the word "always" there, but we have had deacon formation in our diocese for a long time. JK: That has existed. I see. Ok, thank you. MH: But this group was a special group. JK: Oh good. MH: They were wonderful. JK: What have been the joys of being an SCL over your entire adult life? Would you have ever done anything differently? [00:35:47] �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 13 of 17 MH: You know I've been blessed with the choice but I think it was up to God. Some doors closed and other doors opened, you know. My plans were never to go from being a teacher to a counselor to a spiritual director to an assistant in a parish. But God's been there and that's why. I never had any definite plans. I'm sure if I didn't follow that first call that my life would be different but I don't know how because I didn't choose another path. JK: What have you gained from being in the community even though geographically you're somewhat distanced from it? [00:36:38] MH: Oh, I've had a rich support and affirmation of who I am. I've been very well educated. I know that when I moved back to Montana one of the things that came to me as I was praying about this was I've had years of enrichment professionally, psychologically, but there was something within me that was calling me back to my rootedness in my faith life and I went back. My mom and dad were still alive and they weren't in illness so I didn't go back to take care of them, but it was wonderful being around them for those three years and just being present in their life. And I had a brother that lived in St. Louis, and so I used to see him more often when I was in this part of the country, but he died a couple of years ago. So I have three brothers. I have one brother now living and one sister living and her family and my brother's family. So, I still have lots of folks in Butte. JK: Oh, that's good. Have there been any challenges in living in the community? [00:38:08] MH: I've lived in some really good community experiences. They weren't always easy. We always had to think things… You know we lived in a… when you were going to be losing teachers in school and we had to go through discernment as to how to do this. They weren't always easy days but they were good days. JK: Thank you. In the 1950s, '40s and '50s, religious orders were huge. And today there are not as many women entering the orders. What do you think caused this change? [00:38:57] MH: Life. I don't know. I guess I don't worry about it so much. Of course I was part of a big group of people and there are still 11 or 12 of us in the community alive. Not all well but alive. And it's hard to say. You know when I read your question it's hard to diagnose that and to see where we are and what we're going to do about that. I think there's a need for a lot of creativity, and I think that's what our meetings this next week are about, to kind of look and see where we are and where we're going. But it's hard to know at this point. JK: Do you have any creative thoughts about it? [00:40:02] MH: I keep working at it. I'm in a study group with some really wonderful women, and we all are constantly trying to think creatively and future-oriented. But, again, I have to be grateful for the today. And I didn't know in 1955 that when I entered the community that we would be down �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 14 of 17 to the fewer numbers that we are today. But I guess there's always hope and there's always life, and we have some really good leadership and I trust their leadership. Those that have gone before us worked really hard and those that are with us today are still working really hard. JK: Yes, they are. (Laughs) MH: Yes. JK: No one retires as I can tell. What is the future of SCL as you see it? [00:41:23] MH: That's what I mean. I think you just have that hope that we know but we don't know. It's not clear. JK: Right. MH: And I think it's always there's a little bit of grieving of what we have to let go of and yet a little bit of hope for what is to come. But I'm sure Mother Xavier felt that same thing. JK: She probably did. MH: Yes. JK: She probably did. Do you have anything you'd like to add that we haven't talked about? [00:42:03] MH: I don't know. I just think that I have been well-nourished through family and friends, community, faith, the community that I serve now in the church, the opportunities that are mine to ministry. And I have so many opportunities. And I just pray for the grace to be able to respond to these opportunities. JK: Thank you so much. Frank, did you have any…? [00:42:37] FD: Actually I do have a question. JK: Ok. FD: You were talking about the Sacrament of the Sick, and was that… Sometimes we have sick members in our family, and I guess I'd be reluctant to use it because I'd think that they would think that, oh… I mean if it was before an operation they might think, oh… [00:43:00] MH: I'm going to die. FD: Right. Why are they doing this? They look at it as last rites. I'd be afraid to… �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 15 of 17 MH: See, we used to call it that. We've learned that lesson, I mean, in our formation so well, so that we're reluctant. I remember a young woman and it wasn't too long ago. It was just last year in fact. She had a slight stroke and she was in the hospital. And she was afraid of the stroke and her husband was afraid. And I remember Father came in, and the family really wanted her to have the Sacrament of the Sick, especially her husband because he understood it. But I remember the fear on her face, 'cause her only experience of that sacrament was when her mother was dying. And she just had this… and I said, "No, Nance. No. It's ok. This is to help give you strength and healing, not that you're going to die. You're ok." But that is a fear, but we taught that. FD: That's the Sacrament of Extreme Unction, right? [00:44:22] MH: Actually that's changed a lot. Now it's called the Sacrament of the Sick. FD: Ok. It used to be called… MH: And so we used to call... the last rites. And if you noticed when you said can't you do that, the priest, because a lot of times that was so administered and that's when they also made a confession. See. JK: Oh, I see. MH: So, you gave the last rites. And people confessed their sins and then they had the Blessing of the Oils. When I see people who are going to surgery and they say, "Father, is it ok if we have the Sacrament of the Sick after Wednesday morning Mass because my prayer group will be here, and they have their family and their prayer group and it's such a healing experience. FD: Are you saying that you should have it before surgery or after? [00:45:20] MH: Yes, before. FD: Ok. MH: Yes. To give you the strength and the healing already. FD: Yes, I see. MH: I know for me it was really important. I had a slight stroke two years ago, and, thank God, I'm doing well, but it was scary. But it was so important to have that Sacrament of the Sick for me. And when Father came as soon as he heard I was in the hospital and he said, "Do you want the Sacrament of the Sick?" And I said, "Please." I can use any strength I can get right now. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 16 of 17 FD: Can you give that more than once? [00:46:07] MH: Yes, over and over again. Somebody will say to me, "I had that sacrament last month." And I say, "It's ok. Have it again." (Laughter) MH: The more strength we can get the better off we are. No, but we did… It was that last rites, and you were reluctant to call until you knew they just had ten more breaths left. FD: That's what happened to my father. [00:46:37] MH: No, I encourage people. This is a good time for you to have this sacrament before you're going in for your chemotherapy treatment. JK: Thank you. MH: If you have any other questions… I'm sorry if I rambled a lot. JK: No, you didn't ramble at all. MH: I did try to… JK: No. MH: I did try to read those questions but I thought I'm not a high school teacher. I have one experience with that. (Laughter) JK: I must have read that one experience in your mission card (phonetic). [00:47:14] MH: I had to laugh though. I taught junior high and I really loved that age level. And I was going to teach at North Central. I don't know if you've met Sister Anita Sullivan. She was another wonderful principal who I would like to mention. She was so good. But, anyway, they called me. I was directing a 30-day retreat in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. And Nits (phonetic) said, "Margie, I just have one question to ask you." She said they really do need a religion teacher, a theology teacher, for one sophomore class at the high school which is only a few blocks from where our junior high was. And she said, "Would you be willing to teach that class if we can arrange your schedule so that you can get there and back?" And I thought about it. And I thought, if not, why not? Why not me? So, I said yes to that. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Margaret Hogan Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 26, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, August 2, 2017 Page 17 of 17 They were sophomores, and the other teacher, one of our Sisters, was not a very good disciplinarian. A wonderful person and they loved her. I mean they loved her. She used to play with the guitar in her hand and everything. I don't play guitar. And I expected sophomores to listen to me. And so I taught that whole year. But I'm telling you, I used to be in agony going up and down, 'cause I'd leave these wonderful junior high kids who loved theology and they loved religion and I'd go down to these kids. But you know you'd see them on the street and they'd say, "Hi, Sister Margaret." And on St. Patrick's Day they'd be out there at the parade hollering "Hi, Sister." But I said at the end of that year you're going to have to pay me big bucks if you want me to ever do that again or else I'll have to be full-time on that staff so that I can bring discipline to it. JK: So, what year was that? [00:49:26] MH: It would have been 1981. JK: Ok. So, it was after the '60s. MH: Yes. JK: There were a lot of changes that came about with kids. (Laughs) [00:49:39] MH: I'm telling you. But these kids, they will remind you that you taught me as a sophomore. And I thought, oh, dear God, don't remember. I remember asking the principal of the high school, I said, "Why don't you come and sit in my class? I want you to be there. I want you to see what I have to put up with." But it was a learning experience. I would not choose to teach sophomores ever again. JK: (Laughs) Ok. Thank you. MH: Thank you very much. I hope I didn't take your whole time. ### � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Hogan, S. Margaret Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kenamore, Jane Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data MPEG Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 37:40:00 Location The location of the interview Digital Sisters Files Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hogan, S. Margaret, Oral History, 6/26/2017 Subject The topic of the resource Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth; Teaching; Parish Ministry; Vatican II Description An account of the resource She tells stories about growing up in Butte, Montana. She discusses her career in teaching in depth as well as her later parish work. She also speaks about her impressions of the changes from Vatican II. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hogan, S. Margaret; Kenamore, Jane Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 6/26/2017 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource All rights belong to the Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Hogan, S. Margaret; Kenamore, Jane Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1936-2017 Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Audios Education Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/e326adab107fcceaf4ee0eda2d476b0a.bmp 896921d989d00d177f68cd573e6ebdb0 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/14e188096d5bea1f52951ed9aecffb00.mp3 31c74f83efb3ac22285704cef1bd5f46 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/fe864d63a0118e8db08163a1263c9950.mp3 599d83295d132ee582c0bdef18b2fef0 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/ac38fce177c1fb66c1df2e4482a71761.mp3 fe172d8870403337417736f0bad01a4c https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/3abfbadcb496550d97523606a026bc5d.mp3 79109719c4d0010e76abb030c58e6fc5 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/979e4fc2acd592842fc1451c2c51c9db.mp3 3f5a6506e4d20f9bac55fbbca6e27e2a https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/850a4a26ce82286681b3e211e54df638.mp3 62c0d6531ae3b0b5dd300960c9e4ec15 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/7f65f2d60fc575e71cad6f80b916cca2.pdf f5917ee275256b3ac135f1451c876b03 PDF Text Text Sister of Charity Oral Histories Interviewee: Sr. Francis Louise Honeychuck Interviewer: Sr. Marie Corona Miller July 15, 1987 This interview is being conduced as part of the Oral History program of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill. The interviewee is Sister. Francis Louise Honeychuck. The interview is being conducted by Sister. Marie Corona Miller at De Paul Institute. The date is July 15th, 1987. Sr. M: Good morning Sister Francis Louise Sr. F.L: Good morning, how are you today? Sr. M: I’m fine how are you. Sr. F.L: I’m fine thank you. Sr. M: All right sister I came here to today to talk to you about your life as a sister of charity all the many things you have done and the ministries you have been involved in. Would you like to begin with your date of birth? Sr. F.L: I was born in Mount pleasant October 23, 1914 I have one sister whose name is Helen she’s married she lives in Florida, clear water and um originally she lived in Greensburg and her children attended Cathedral school and she has 5 children and they are all married except one and um her oldest daughter lives in Westminster Colorado and her two daughters are attending Catholic university in Washington DC there first year in college first and second year in college they both have college scholarships very bright children and she has two other sons who are also very bright her next daughter her oldest boy is Regus who was a went to St. Vincent college for a scholarship and then he went to Pitt University and received his master degree in Chemical Engineering. And then later on he went on for his doctorate and now he worked at Westinghouse for many years and he moved to Lakeland because his wife had arthritis and she was recommended to go to a warmer climate. So they have 5 children also and the oldest daughter is ready for college this beginning of September. Jimmy is another son and he lives in Orlando and he also has his master’s degree in Engineering and the youngest boy is John he has a masters degree in Electrical Engineering. And I have a brotherFather Bob who was educated at St. Vincent’s college and he is the oldest in the family and he has gone been to Pittsburgh Diocese then it was split and then he went to Greensburg of course and he’s now retired and he lives at Polyment house. He’s my favorite brother of course and our brother Andrew lives in Cleveland and he has is married and has 5 children and they’re all married and I can’t begin to tell you all their relationships because it’s so many children ok and then Brother Johnny is my youngest one and he lives in Irwin and he was 5 children and they’re all married. �Sr. M: Which one is the nurse sister? Sr. F.L: And Larry whose the nurse and he lives in Mount Lebanon and he goes to our lady of Grace Parish and he has 2 children and they’re married. Ok that’s the extent of my family. My mother of course was a widow and she my father died in 1918 flu and so my mother had to work and she took in washings and all kinds of things in order to keep us together, and she was determined not to leave us go to any other families you know she kept us together and so we all survived under my mothers care and all grew up and I remember going into first grade and I attended St. Johns school and Sister Mary Eustice Mellon was my first teacher happy memories because I remember she asked us to say the sounds of the alphabet A “a” B “ba” C “ca” and I remember I use to do that at home when I was a little girl and I would look at the story books and she gave me a metal a beautiful little metal and she said you go to that other class because you remember all the sounds of the alphabet but the very first day I remember she went around saying what’s your name what is your name what is your name 60 children in a classroom you know we had 3 in a seat or 2 in a seat you know and she said what’s your name what’s your name what’s your name and after the 4th time I was tired of hearing say what’s your name I said I told you my name before and guess what I got a little crack. But anyhow I learned quickly to be quite you know. Sr.M: So what school was this? Sr. F.L: St. James, St. John the Baptist school in Scottdale. Ok now I remember some of the teachers we had after coming to 4th grade I had Sister Mary Martin Wit and in 5th grade Sister Perpetua Behe in 8th grade Sister Salome Kline and they were happy memories you know then I got into high school and then I had some wonderful teachers in high school I remember them very distinctly. Sr.M: And what High School is this? Sr. F.L: This is St. Johns St. Johns it was just the 3rd floor of the school and I had Sister Angelica Little, Sister Suzanne McIntire she taught me Spanish, Sister Joanna Gleeson was English, and Sister Bertha Shay and I remember her, very distinguished she talked in Latin and oh I love Latin and Sister Marie Anthony was my report teacher Sister Anthony and we had about 16 I guess 20 students in the class and a Sr.M: In the whole class? Sr. F.L: In in my class, in my class ok Sr. M: About how many were in the high school? Sr. F.L: About 90 maybe 100 all through and Sister Bertha was a favorite teacher of mine I liked her and Sister Marie Anthony of course taught the Geometry and the science general science classes. So I remained in high school until I was about till the �Junior year and it was then I was contemplating and I remember very distinctly I was eating I took my lunch to school and we Sister Marie Anthony was there watching the lunch hour they take turns, one day it was Sister Marie Anthony the next day it was Sister Suzanne they took something time. And we were eating our lunch one day and she said to me you know I dreamed about you last night and I said you did? Ya she said I dreamed you were a Sister of Charity and I said Oh I don’t know about that but I’ve been thinking about it, I’ve been thinking about it. And so then I began to pray a lot you know and think about what I would like to do I wasn’t quit sure but I just knew well I wanted to devote myself and I remember one day at home my brother Andy and I were playing a game and he said and you know you have to say what would you like to be would you like to be a sailor you like to be a nurse you like to be this and so a saint was there and I said I wanted to be a saint and he said no you be a saint I said yes I’m going to be a saint but anyhow I thought you know that I thought well I wanted to think about being my vocation. So I then after that I approached sister Marie Anthony and I said you know what I’m thinking about entering the community and she said I’m not surprised so Sister Germaine and Sister Richard Ann, Mother Richard Ann and Sister Mary Watson we were all thinking about it too so then not much was said except for ?? She said well where would you like to go and I said well guess I think you got to break the ice don’t all three go together she said that’s not good Sr. M: Were all of you in the same class? Sr. F.L: We were in the same class we were junior year and so she said I think you got to break the ice, so I said I think maybe March 25th would be nice so in the October before that I went to Seton Hill to petition and I can’t remember who I went with probably with Sister Germaine I’m not sure but Mother Eveline Fisher was the Mother general, so she said you’re from Scottdale and I said yes and she said when would you like to come? And I said well I think maybe March 25th and she said oh that nice she said we have quit a few but I think you’re the first one to apply for that date I think you’re probably the first one but she said threes a girl in college that’s thinking about coming and she didn’t tell me who that was, but later I found that was Sister Eugene O’Donnell, and so I went home and I told my mother that I wanted and she said you wanna go to the community don’t you wanna finish your high school and I said I think maybe I want to go now. So then I wrote a letter to Father Bob and he was at St. Vincent’s at the time and I wanted to get him opinion and he though well kind of young you know and so he did so then he wrote back and he said he didn’t know about that, but then he said yes you can by all means go he said you have my blessing or he said you know whatever I can’t remember what he said but he said ill pray that you enter the Catholic vocation and God be with you that was it. So then I remember we were getting ready, and Sister Marie Anthony said you need some clothes you need this you need that, Sister Joanne offered to make me a Kimona and I said well I already have one I already made one myself and she said oh you sew and I said yes. So then they had a party for me my class had a party so we went to Kate Sherman’s house and they presented me with a napkin ring so that I have a napkin ring for my napkin at you know on the table those days �you had your own napkin ring ok. So that’s what they gave me as a gift, we had nice evening had a nice party and I remember boys wanted to dance with me and I said ok it’s the last time we’ll dance so we danced and we had some music and so on and I came home and Larry brought me home cuz he was invited to the party and so March came and I kept thinking you know oh gosh it was midnight we got worried that I shouldn’t go until Easter Sunday because, March 25th in that year fell on Good Friday so they said do you think we should come on Good Friday wait till Easter Sunday. So Easter Sunday came and everything was bright and beautiful of course they had Easter candy all around and the bishop baskets you name it everything to make it look inviting. So I remember going up to the clothes room and the sister in charge was Sister Agnes Francina and she had a black dress for me and little black lace cap to put on my head and she said here I think this will fit you so we put it on and I said well ill go down to the parlor and see how everybody likes me so I went down to the parlor and Sister Marie Anthony was there and Sister Germaine and Mother Richard Ann Sr. M: They all went with you? Sr. F.L: They all went with me yes Sr.M: How did you all go? Sr.F.L: Sister Germaine’s father drove the car ok, my mother didn’t go she said goodbye to me at home and so they took me and so I went down and remember said how do you like me? They said well you look kinda nice, and name? looked at me and she said she kept thinking you know I guess I’ll be next you know because she was contemplating being in a spot in September and so we stayed for a little while and Sister Theodosia came down and took me up to the Bishop Sr. M: And she was the mistress? Sr. F.L: She was the mistress, she was the first mistress back then, we were the first novices ok her first novices. So I went up to the Bishop and I met Sister Jean Francis Peters, and she just got the white cap, and Sister Agatha, Sister Alice Marie and Theresa Martin and Margery and Anne Matthia and all that whole gang there was a whole good many. Sr.M: What Sister Margery was that? Sr. F.L: Sister Margery, she’s the one that just died from cancer a couple years ago. And so we went I went to the chapel and Sister Marie Anthony took me to the chapel after their incident, and she took me all the way up to the front pew on the Saint Josephs sides I remember distinctly, and she said now you’re here and you tell God you’re here to stay that’s what she said to me, you tell God you’re here to stay. And so I prayed for a while and she took me out and we went down to the parlor for a little while and we said goodbye to everybody and that was the end of that. Sister �Marie Anthony’s visit, and so they all went home and said goodbye. So then I went up to the Bishop and I didn’t know what to expect you know it was all such a big thing to me. Sr.M: Now where was the Bishop Sister? Sr.F.L: The Bishop is where the Sister’s community room is now. Ok, and the senior division used that room across the hall you know they had a piano in there and so that whole floor was really the Bishop floor. We use to go to the oratory you know right across from them. Ok I was taken up to the fifth floor and shown where my bed room was suppose to be, it was really a dormitory with curtains all the way around it. Sr.M: Now this is the administration building. Sr. F.L.: Administration building, and Sister Rose Irene Boggs was in charge up there and she was the senior in that room. Sister Clara Marie McManama was in that room and Sister Rose Irene, and she showed me where the washrooms were, and told me when to get up early in the morning five o’clock in the morning, and I thought oh dear and morning prayers etc. So while I was a postulant I remained in that area. And I remember distinctly after about a month’s time I got very very homesick Sr.M: Now were you the only postulant? Sr. F.L.: In that room Sr.M: Well I mean though in the group Sr. F.L.: Oh no oh no, I should tell you that five entered Sr.M: On that same day? Sr. F.L.: On that same day, and they wore, they were Mary Greeley from Johnstown and Sister Jean Seton she got the name from when she became a white cap, and I can’t remember her Baptismal name. Sister Ruthann Kronenberger, and Sister Eugene O’Donnell and myself. And Mary Ann Greely only stayed about two weeks, she got very homesick and decided she wanted to go home. Sister Jean Seton was in the community only six months, she got the white cap and decided she wanted to go home, but we didn’t know she was going it was all on the secret we just missed her and then sister asked if she was gone. So that left the three of us, Sister Ruthann, Sister Eugene, and myself. Now Sister Ruthann was missioned out west in various places, Scottdale and so on and she was a really wonderful companion, so was Sister Eugene. I remember being in class with Sister Ruthann we were studying American History and also Children’s Literature in summer school at Seton Hill. Sr. M: Who taught those classes? �Sr.F.L: Oh I can’t remember who they are. Sister Mary Ann Joseph was the Literature teacher and oh she was so exciting and wonderful, I just loved everything. Sister Mary Fidelis taught the American History. Well, I had so much work to do I had an awful lot of reading, Sister Mary Ann Joseph had all kinds of things that we had to read about which was very fascinating to me which I, and Sister Mary Fidelis had all kinds of assignments and I had to do an awful lot of reading and I have spent most of the time with history, because I had a test every week and I also had a test every week in the Literature. So we would go out on the swing, out in the yard and Sister Ruthann would say to me now Francine did you read this story and I said no I couldn’t have time I was doing history I was doing history I said I had to make this book report for history and I said I had to go to the library and think what I was gonna do for history make a pickery board. So I though I’ll go to the I’ll read this certain book, because I know the name, it was Ulysses Grant I knew something about him, I thought this is something easy I have to pick something easy because I don’t have time, I had so much preparation to do. It was just so much the assignments were so heavy. So sister Ruthann would say to me remember Moby Dick goes with this, and so and so goes with that remember this, so she would the night before the tests, she would tell me all these different things about this literature. Sr. M: Were you in the same class? Sr. F.L: The same class, and I said well I recall this and I recall this and I recall this, but I don’t have time to be studying this. So we took the test and low and behold we passed both of us but I thought oh how could I ever go through a summer like this again, I will never take two heavy classes again because each of those classes required so much reading and so much preparation. In fact it was so hard on me that I didn’t even go to recreation would you believe it. I couldn’t take time, and the sisters in the dormitory said Francis Louise you gonna come out and play basketball, you gonna come out and lets go swimming, lets go here, lets go and I said I can’t I have to study this I have to do this, I have to do this work for tomorrow I had no recreation it was awful. Sr. M: What about a charge, were you given a charge? Sr. F.L: Oh I had a charge; I had a big charge too Sr.M: Whatcha get? Sr. F.L: Well I can’t remember I think I had something over in the bathroom in Cannevan I had to do a bathroom in Cannevan that was an everyday requirement you know because you had to supply the needs you know that was required, and besides I’d mop it up once a week, but outside of that you know I was kept very busy it was a very busy summer. Ask me the question. �Sr.M: How long were you a postulant? Sr. F.L: I was a postuland for three months. And then I got the white cap, and I remember going to the oratory and the priest who was in charge of Seton Hill I can’t remember his name he was a chaplain well he blessed the well I guess it was a retreat master a retreat master. Sr.M: Now what year was this? Sr. F.L.: This was 1934 ok, so after we made may day retreat and I remember going to the chapel everyday and the place was packed with Sisters the whole chapels filled with Sisters everyday, they even had chairs on the side to accommodate you know people the Sisters who made the retreat. And I remember going to the chapel everyday and praying and then going to the retreat and we had our retreat exercises in Cecilian Hall, and the best part about that retreat was to go to bed in the afternoon and sleep. I tell ya because we get up at five o’clock every morning and I was always exhausted and I slept, did I sleep, and then I’d carry some my stocking to darn and downstairs I’d mend my stockings while the person was doing the reading and it was usually a profess Sister and I think it was Sister Ann Mckale Orielley who was doing the reading, and she had a beautiful powerful voice and she read for twenty minutes and after twenty minutes we’d disappear and so do our where we had to go and then we’d have a four o’clock conference and then early to bed in the evening which I welcomed; and that was a really restful time for me because it was something that I really thought I needed. Sr. M: And this was in preparation for your receiving the habit. Sr. F.L: Yes, so then the morning, the night before the novices were received, they announced the names of the candidates who were going to receive their habit, so the Sister up in the balcony in the Chapel after the prayers were over everybody hold their ears open you know listening who these names were gonna who the candidates were gonna be so they named them, and they said Emma Honeychuck would be named Sister Francis Louise; and I remember hearing that and I was delighted and Sister Ruthann of course got her name Sister Eugene. Sr.M: Now where did you tell me about the name Francis? Sr. F.L: Well I asked for the when I went to petition mother said to me would you have you would you like think of a name and I said well I’d like to have some form of Francis or some form of Louise, and she said oh I see, well she said we’ll think about it. Sr.M: Now why was that? Sr. F.L: That was probably maybe a month before I received the habit. �Sr. M: And why why did you want Francis and Louise? Sr. F.L: Well I know that Louise was connected with Vincent De Paul Sr. M: I see Sr. F.L: And I knew that and I petitioned on October 4th at least to Saint Francis, Francis of Assisi. So and I was surprised that I got those two names and I was happy. And so I remember the morning that I received the habit you know then we had a big celebration and you know and a Sr. M: With all the retreat Sisters? Sr. F.L: All the retreat Sisters and then of course you know we looked different in our white caps it was so tight you know with the bows tied and all that and I remember during the mission days I learned how to tie the white bows and then all be placed there and I tied the bows, and even when I got to De Paul Sister John Agnes McClory and Sister and all the Sisters here you know would said Fancis will you tie my bows will you tie my bows, even the black bows so I learned that quickly you know and that was kinda fascinating to me it was one of the old things I use to do. Sr. M: Who made your Habit? Sr. F.L: Well, Sister Agnes Francina had a Habit. Sr. M: What was her family name? Sr. F.L: I can’t remember her family name, but anyhow she well no we all went to class. We had to do some sewing we had to make our own white sleeves and of course I knew how to sew because I used to do a lot of sewing when I was little, and so we you know all got together and did that, so I remember making the white sleeves, and she would put our names on it and I remember we made our own collars, and white caps, and she taught us how to do that, and she helped us to make our Habits, so we had one good Habit for Sunday and one handy down for somebody else. Yes for your everyday Habit So we Sr. M: And what color were the Habit’s in those days? Sr. F.L: Oh they were black of course they were black, and some were flannel the everyday Habit was a flannel Habit it was made of flannel material and the other was like a Panama which is a bit of quality it was a nicer, and so I used to remember that I learned quickly how to make the Habits because when I went to WestEnd I helped Sister, different Sisters to help fix their Habits I leaned by fixing, I’d rip an old Habit to see how it was done and how the pleats were fixed you had four pleats across the bodice and how they were turned, and I remember fixing a Habit one time for Sister Marie Faycott the pleats were in backwards so I had to I had to rip it �and I said I knew where the mistake was. So then after that I began doing a lot of sewing mending Habits and making Habits you know petti coats and all that kinda of stitching. Sr. M: Ok now that time when you received the Habit, is that when Mother Richard Ann entered in the following September? Sr. F.L: Following September Sr.M: In 1934 Sr. F.L: Ya, no yes 1934 no wait a minute no she entered I entered in 32 1932 and she came the September of 1932, see I came in March and she came the following September and I remember when she entered, she had long black hair and she Sr.M: So Sister Germaine had not come yet? Sr. F.L: No, she came the following September, she had graduated school. So then we started to you know take some classes in preparation for teaching and you know methods of different methods of you know you had to learn for preparation for classroom work. So I remember going over to the college and learning at night and completed my high school year. You know so then one day Annalise came to me one day and she said do you know you haven’t finished your science you need a credit in science, and she said Dr. Car will be teaching science this summer and there’s one young lady from Greensburg who was interest in taking this, and she’s paying for the course and she said there would just be two people in the class, would consider taking the science course with her, that’s college credit, and she said if you take this we would give you a credit for your high school as well, so I said I’ll try it. So we met Dr. Car and I remember Sister Marie Anthony Lavin was also teaching Chemistry, and she was teaching on the other side of the table, and she was doing experimentations with some Chemistry, and she would see us everyday, but she wasn’t aloud to talk to use cause we were I was a novice and you weren’t aloud to talk to novices to Profess Sisters even though she was my mother in religion. And so we got through the course and I passed it and I was very happy. So then when I went to Duquesne University to work for my degree, I learned that when they transferred my credits from Seton Hill that I had accreditation in college Chemistry and I wouldn’t have to take any science at Seton Hill, so I also got my high school and college for the one course because it was college credit. And that was all due to Sister De Chantal Leis, which I was very happy. Well then in the mean time I earned up a lot of credits for college, but I still wasn’t finished high school and I didn’t finish high school until I came to De Paul Institute. And I remember taking pre professional examinations and Sister Theresa Vincent Mahoney said to me you mean you’re gonna study this you going to study this you’re going to do this by yourself, and I said we have about a year to teach you this, and I said well if you just give me some regions books so I went to Sister Emanuel Manny, and she gave me some regions books, and she said what do you want, and I said well I want Economic �Geography and another aspect of Geography and so I studied these regions books, and I would read on that, and go to the library and get some reference material and then I would study these answers and so on. So I took the test, and I passed the test and they were the only two that I needed so then I got my certification though the state of Pennsylvania and finished my pre professional examinations and I got my certificate. Well then from then on I was able to go on to my college work, get the rest of it ok. I don’t know what I wanna say with the mission. Sr. M: Sister do you wanna talk a little bit about your novitiate days? Sr. F.L: Yes, um I’d like to say that the good number of Sisters entered with us there was a good crowd of Sisters there, I remember Sister Ligouri Steinmiller, Sister Theresa Martin Henry, Sister Ann Agnes, Kilkeary, Sister Rose Irene Boggs,, Sister Alice MarieCrates, Sister Caroline Joseph Wilson, Sister Helen Hart, Sister Jean Francis Peters, Sister Sara Marie O’hara, Sister Agatha Procter, Sister Clara Marie McManama Sister Helen Mary Laferty, Sister Mary Mildred Curry, and Sister Marie George Abbott. One particular day I remember that when I was very homesick Sister Alice Marie, and Sister Caroline Joseph took me out to the barn and they said all kinds of silly things about the cows and the chickens and the everything connected with the farm and they got me laughing, got me out of my homesickness which I was very grateful. Sr.M: Sister can you remember any other incidents during your novitiate days? Sr. F.L: Oh yes, I think I can remember another incident, I recall that you know we always had to wash the dishes after the meal was over, in the Sisters dining room and after serving and passing the pans and reading up and Sister Ligouri Steinmiller was at the sink at the time, and she was splashing around making a lot of soap suds and it was going everywhere and somebody got splashed and I said oh splash back and just then that Sister and I said Saint Theresa did and just at that moment SisterTheodosia walks in and she said Saint Theresa I never heard that, everybody laughed. Sr.M: Did you serve in the dining room? Sr. F.L: Oh yes we all had to serve we had to take turns carrying pans and serving the meals and we carried it on trays always the hot food was prepared in the kitchen and carried the serving dishes on the trays and carried them into the dining room and put them on carts and same with the dish pans the soap and the water and the mops and towels and all that. And after the meal several of us had to take care of the towels take them down and wash them out and then hang them down in the tunnel downstairs to dry for the next morning and the next day we’d collect them and some Sisters worked in the butter house they had to cut the butter and get prepared for the morning meal it would be breakfast. Other people had to get the pans ready count them all out get the coffee pots ready I remember two of our Sisters were �appointed to make coffee every morning, they’d go down to the kitchen and use the big urn you know and oh Sister Mary Terrence she’s the one that did that. One time. Sr.M: ? Sr.F.L: Sister Mary Terrence she was in our division too she’s long she’s dead Sr.M: What’s’ her family name Sister? Sr.F.L: Um Sister Mary Terrence Clancy. And I think Sister Clara Marie McManama went down with her they had to go early in the morning before the morning prayers that was around 5 you know, and so they had to make the coffee every morning, and by the time Sister Mary Terrence was laughing she said well I hope the coffee’s not too strong because I put too much in it I’m half asleep and I don’t even know what I’m doin. We all laughed about that. So everybody had chores to do you know for the breakfast and the lunch. We were responsible for a lot of things and we also had to take turns saying prayers nigh prayers morning prayers reading, and I just never had a turn for the morning prayers, I said the quarter prayers you know before the lunch but I didn’t have a turn for that the reading. So when I got on mission I Sister Theodosia said she remembered that I didn’t have a turn and she wondered how I was doing and Sister Levonnation said oh she’s doing ok she was my Sister servant. Sr.M: Sister what do you recall about the senior Sisters in the dining room, like you weren’t aloud to talk to them, but do you recall anything about the senior Sisters that you could remember? Sr.F.L: Hmm well I can’t remember Sr.M: How many tables were in the dining room when you were serving Sr.F.L: Oh I would say about maybe 8 on each side you know maybe 16 tables at least, well maybe not that many I guess yes I guess there were there were long tables and you had 8, 10 people at a table you know, we had white table cloths on all the time and we would take we every Wednesday we change the table we turned the table cloths over the dirty side went under the clean side went on top in those days why you then on Saturday you would clean them for the next week for the following week and we all had napkins and napkin rings and all that was in this place, and the dishes were in place, the silverware was there and the plates were turned upsidedown and the silverware was there, and you had to make sure that the sugar bowels were attended to have sugar and salt, pepper those kinds of things. And that was just the ordinary run of things. Sr.M: Now what about your charge on the steps you had an amusing story about the steps. �Sr.F.L: Oh that happened, when I was I guess I was a white cap then, and I remember well we all had extra things to do that day because some Sisters went on retreat or I can’t remember the incident but we all had extra work to do, and so Sister Feodosha appointed Sister Mary Celest Casalina and myself to do the stairways in the in the landing you know the chapel chapel landing and the floor near Cecilian Hall and then the one below that near the dining room was and I said to her you take one side and ill take the other side and we’ll meet you know downstairs, so we started work we had our mops and we had our dusters and we had to dust all the curlicues you know in those days we had banisters that were very ornate and they had a lot of you know things to put your finger through in order to get your finger all to get the dust off and with your cloth, and so we started and we worked for a while and about 15 minutes she came over to me oh Sister I think this is too hard, this is too much work and she said I think I ought to ask somebody for some help, and I said oh come on you do your side and I’ll do my side and we’ll get finished don’t worry about it. So we went back to work and about 20 minutes later she says did you find, did you go to Sister Feodosha and ask her if we could have some help, this is just too much can’t you can’t you you’re the senior you should go now you’re the senior you go ask Sister to get some help because I think this is too much. So I said no I’m not gonna go I said no we’ll get finished don’t worry about it. Well now are you gonna go or aren’t you gonna go, and I said no I don’t think I’m gonna go, well why not why not and I said well I’m not goin because I don’t think we have to go we don’t need any help. So we went back to work, and next thing you know she came back again did you find some help I think you ought a go. So I finally went to Sister Theodosia after much deliberation I went, so I explained what happened and she said well you tell Sister Celest that I want to see her. So Sister Celest began apologizing immediately she said Sister it’s my fault it’s my fault I urged Sister to talk to you and get help, she says it was my fault and I knew I shouldn’t have done that but I knew it was my fault. So anyhow that was the end of that. Sr.M: So did you get the steps done? Sr.F.L: Ya we got them done, sure we did we went back to work and they just sure we did. Sr.M: Did you have anything to do with the animals in the barn? Sr.F.L: No, oh no oh no no no no Sister’s didn’t do anything like that the men take care of that. Sr. M: Alright Sister then you went out on your fist mission Sr.F.L: Yes Sr.M: Ok, now where was that? �Sr.F.L: Ya now the first mission well first I would tell you that yes I went to Westend, and I was assigned to take third grade and the former teacher had that and she was told or asked to take fourth grade so I could have the third grade because I have never taught before. It was my first experience at teaching and Sister Generosa was in charge of the teachers in training at that time for the community. She was a supervisor you know. So she came around periodically and she had visits with all of us, and so I remember going into third grade, I had about sixty children in third grade. Sister Anastesia Mellon was in the second grade, Sister Ann Seton Boyle was in the first grade and between the two of them they really gave me a lot of help, especially Sister Ann Seton, and I spent a lot of time observing Sister Ann Seton when she was preparing her vocabulary work for first grade all the I was asking her many questions well how do you do this, and why are you doing this and she’d tell me this is the vocabulary for tomorrow and then she’d have printing on the board she’d have all kinds of art work ready for the children so that they would be have something to do while she was teaching on group and or another class another group, and a Sister Anastesia Mellon had second grade she had over sixty children in there she was kind of on the stern people you know everything was did at task, and Sister Ann Seton was well more innovative I would say because she was younger, and so I learned a good bit from both of them and I had to do all the studying on my own to try to prepare things so things went pretty well. And then the following year I was appointed to have fifth and sixth grade and I was kind of un eerie about that because it was going to be my first year of fifth and sixth level. It was a double grade and I think we had fourth children in that room. Sister Erma Sullivan was sixth grade opposite of me we were down stairs in the basement of the school, and it was during that year, it was 1936 that the Pittsburgh you know the Saint Patrick’s day flood occurred the famous Saint Patrick’s day flood oh I’ll tell you that was some experience. I remember, we went to bed at night well into the evening because Mother Egnasha was a little bit you know upset, not exactly upset but she was I can’t think of the word Sr.M: Concerned? Sr.F.L: Concerned, she was concerned because the water was rising and there was a creek behind the convent and she could see that water rising, and she was concerned about the blessed sacrament being on the first floor where the chapel was. So we all went to bed and she didn’t say anything but it was late when we get up in the morning there was no bell ring and I said what’s the matter no bell look how high it is, and we looked out the window and here this water was way up high above the it was even with the convent porch which was high it was the old convent, and the fence across the street which was next to the Thady Seton School was covered with water the picket fence six feet high and it was covered with water. Every place you look and there was a woman across the street yelling and she says help help help from the second floor trying to get out, So first thing we did well I got dressed and so did we and we opened the cellar door and here was the water just about at the doorstep and we could see the cans up in the air floating tomato’s, beans, all these cans were coming out of the cupboards floating on top of the water �ok, it was terrible. So we had to get out and the next thing I know a policemen came with three or four policemen in a boat, so we all got out and got into the boat and we went into the boat into a canoe all the way up to Stuben street if you can picture that that’s pretty high up we got out and went on Stuben street and we walked to the Devine Provence convent and they welcomed us somebody telephoned and said we were coming guessing Mother Ignatia did that or somebody and so they gave us breakfast and I remember specifically they gave us coffee and doughnuts and some cereal and some fruit they had apricots or what you know ready for us. Sr.M: Were they not flooded? Sr.F.L: They were not flooded because they were on a higher level ok so Sr.M: Do you remember the name of that convent Sister? Sr.F.L: Saint Martin’s, Saint Martin’s convent. Ok so it was there that Mother Ignatia had telephoned Mother Eveline finding out where we could go for the day. So we had to wait for about a half hour until everything was processed through and so they said well Hazelwood Saint Steven’s Hazelwood can accommodate five Sisters they don’t have heat, but they’ll take you ok there’s no heat in the convent but they’ll take you. So they decided to send Sister Veronica Scott, Sister Paula Moran, Sister Olivia Hamilton, Sister Ann Seton Boyle, and myself and they called us to find dionanies. And so we went to Hazelwood and Sr.M: In a boat? Sr.F.L: No, we went on a train and we got on the train and we went all across the city and you could see the water everywhere when we passed J & L steel building everything was flooded cars were covered and everything, it was terrible. So we finally got to Hazelwood going into the cold convent and Sister Mary Ann MacAfee was there and she was teaching there and some of the other sister, but I remember her because she was stationed her later at De Paul Institute. So it was the year after that that she came here. But so they accommodate us they serve us breakfast and everything and they had three tables in the dining room the place was cold but at least we had a bed to sleep in we were away from the water and we got our scripture reading there are our prayers and we served our meals and everything, so we were there for about a week, and then a telephone call came and said Mother Evalan called and said I would like Sister Ann Seton and Sister Francis Louise to go to Oakmont Saint… Sr.M: Now did they still carry on their school? Sr.F.L: Oh yes Sr.M: They had no problem with the flood? �Sr.F.L: No, they carried on their school. Ok, and they didn’t have everybody because everybody wasn’t able to get there but they took care of the ones who came. Ok so then we went to Saint Irenaeau and Sister Ann Seton was told to do the CCD work after school and I was to do to take fifth and sixth grade because Sister Mary Albert Short was ill I believe she had scarlet fever and she would be away for at least three weeks. And they thought of me because I had fifth and sixth grade before at Westend. So when I got there, I didn’t have any problem and I thought oh gee this is nice this is small class in compared to Westend, and there’s no flood no water and I’m on in the safe land and its warm and it’s cozy and oh it’s nice and it was homey they only had about six Sisters on mission there Sr.M: What was the name of that convent? Sr.F.L: Saint Ireneaus where Sister Mary Anna Mcsherry was the principal and also the Sister servant. And so we slept upstairs and everyday I went to school and everyday Sister Mary Anna would peep in the window to see how things was going in the classroom. So after about three days, she said to me I can’t believe it she said she says this is the wildest class in the school and she says you have control over these kids she said I wish I could keep you and I said oh I have to go back to Westend when they’re ready for me I’ll have to go back there I said it’s not up to me to stay I said you know, so I just smiled and didn’t say anything and I know they seemed to be out of hand at first but I was very commanding in the very beginning because they warned me that it was a hard class but I Sr.M: How many children did you have? Sr.F.L: There must have been about forty not as big of class as I had. But anyhow, I found they to be very very nice. So after the week was over, after the week was over I went back to Westend but, we were not aloud to go down to the basement where my school classroom was we had to make they had to make changes no body was to use that room that place downstairs for children for the rest of the year. They had libe all over the place the board of health came around said no it has to dry completely and they had to make sure that there’s no bacteria no germs you know debree anything that might be contagious for the children. So we didn’t go down there and so we had to use the high school they emptied the library and the high school classes had to go in the library conduct some of their classes there and they vacated one whole room for Sister Erma and myself so we had she had sixth grade and I had fifth and sixth grade so we put the two classes together and that was over past sixth kids. So we worked it out that we’d you know go hand in hand we couldn’t have two teachers in the room but she took part of the time then I taught part of the time and so things went, we had to keep a record of everything and she was wonderful with me she said be sure you have everybody whose absent down and it’s a good thing I did because you know we had some wintery days and one boy whose name was David Lennon was in an accident after school he was sled riding and he accidently bumped into a truck or the truck bumped into him and of course the parents were wanted to have a lawsuit. So the next thing I knew some gentlemen �stepped into my classroom and said hand me this note and said you’re ?? to court I couldn’t believe it and so then he explained this is all about David Lennon’s people wanting me to testify and so I went to Sister Erma immediately and she said oh Sister she said this is serious you’ll have to go, so then we told Sister Margret and Sister Margret said oh no you’re not going you not gonna go you’re not goin and Sister Erma said oh Sister we have to go we have to go or you’ll pay five hundred dollars. So we went Sr.M: Both of you went? Sr.F.L: We both went because we both handled him. So all I had to do of course was to take my register with me and testify the days they were absent and I had to say whether there was any preshable difference in his leaning you know capacity was he injured in any way that his leaning ability was you know demurred and of course I had to say that I didn’t see any difference in the child and so they won the case the family won the case, but I was very much unnerved because it was my first experience and I was a young Sister and I didn’t you know know what to expect. So it was hard on me but Sister Erma was very nice about it she went to the court with me I wouldn’t have gone alone you know which was nice. In those days we always went in two’s you never went by yourself you know you always went with a companion down the street or anywhere we just never went alone. Sr.M: Sister when the five of you went to Saint Eranas or Saint Steven’s where did the other Sisters from your house go? Sr.F.L: Well some of them went to Sacred Heart and some went different places ya I can’t remember just where they all went but Sr.M: And then you all came back together within a week Sr.F.L: Yes we did, yes we did. Then the following year Sr.M: What about um Sr.F.L: The following year we when the then there was a rumor that a flood was going to come back again you know the river was going to rise again but and it did rise to some extent but not like the Saint Patrick’s day flood. So father we had mass in the morning and Father Sheetie came over he’s the assistant pastor Father Gilman was the pastor at the time, but he was the assistant pastor and he said the rumor’s comin up you better get out and so we all decided to go somewhere while Sister Marie Ann to Sister Margret was in charge then and she said Sr.M: This is the second year? Sr.F.L: The year after 1938 ok no 1937 because the flood was 1936, 1937 it was the spring season and I can’t remember if it was in March or April but anyhow it was �probably March. So they said they had room for three at De Paul Institute, so Sister Olivia and Sister Ann Seton and myself went to De Paul ok and the others went to different places some people went to Carnegie and some other people went I can’t remember all the missions they were, but anyhow we left. And some people went to Seton Hill I think, and so when I came to De Paul it was my first experience with deaf children I really didn’t know anything about De Paul institute I had heard of it but I didn’t know what it was like or what to expect. So I remember observing the classroom during the day while the children were in session Sister Elizabeth Ann Mahonie at the time was a teacher over in the primary school and I remember seeing her and observing, and Sister Olivia and Sister Ann Seton came along and we just sat and observed. The children were having reading and speech and ? training and matching pictures and everything. And I distinctly I saw a Sally lou Sister, she was just a little girl, she’s one of our teacher aids now you know and when she grew up she went to Sacred Heart high school and then she went to Mercy college but she didn’t finish, so then she came here and got a job and she was home economics teacher for a while now she’s a teacher aid working with Mr. Hope. But anyhow I was astounded at what the children could do you know I was very interested I couldn’t believe that they were doing and not hearing what the teacher was saying. So I said to Sister Elizabeth Ann would you not talk loud so she said alright ill talk without voice, so she did and she was saying the very same things that she said before but using no voice and the children were doing carrying on everything and that’s when I was convinced that they were really you know lip reading and I though isn’t that amazing I just couldn’t believe that. So I tried to talk to some of the children but I found it difficult to understand some of them because I wasn’t use to them but so after that then of course we were here for a couple days and then we went back to Westend and resumed our teaching you know everything was normal by that time but in the following June or I guess it was June, August when the mission list was read we all went to the Cecilian Hall and Mother Marie Benedict Monahaign was the Mother at the time and she read out the names of the Sisters for the various missions and you would have to listen very closely for your name you know as the mission was read so I was listening and listening and after it was all over I didn’t hear my name and I thought why I wonder where I’m going so after I started to go out to the end of the hall and I met Sister Margret and she said dearie where you going on mission and I said I don’t know I said I didn’t hear my name She said lets go to Mother and find out. Sr.M: Now this is Sister Margret Sr.F.L: Sister Margret McMan she was my Sister servant ok at Westend, so we went to the hall and Mother was talking with some Sister about Mother said you go to your mission go to your mission she said and you try it and if you if you contact me later that’s all I heard. So then Sister Margret says Mother where is this Sister going on mission and Mother looked at me and said oh she’s going to one of the Institutions and I thought well I’m not a nurse I can’t go to the hospital you know or maybe I’m going into and I going to send me to training or what so then I said you mean De Paul Mother and she said yes De Paul she said I want you come here she �said now look she said I want you to try it for a year and see how you like it she says now that’s not for everybody and I know and she said everybody wouldn’t like that type of work but she said you try it and then next June she says you come back to me and you tell me, well I tried it for a year and I was thinking I was going to Seton Hill at the end of June like we always do all the novices went to Seton Hill you know course I was profess then I was a profess Sister and I expected to go to Seton Hill like everybody else and take classes and do all the things everybody else does get a charge out there and have recreation with everybody and do everything that you do in the summer time well, first thing I know Sister Regatta Fitzpatrick and myself were sent to Wane State University, teacher in training for the deaf so I never got Sr.M: Sister can I back up a little bit Sr.F.L: Yep Sr.M: into an incident that happened in the dining room you had said to me something about Sister Marie Antonio Mclenen was in the dining room eating with Mother Sr.F.L: Oh ya Sr.M: Was it mother Benedict Sr.F.L: It was Mother Marie Benedict yes Sr.M: and you were serving Sr.F.L Yes I was serving the dining room and I just heard a conversation saying oh that’s the one she’s the one I knew they were pointing to me but I didn’t know what the conversation was Sr.M: So this preceded your assignment Sr.F.L This preceded my assignment so I presumed that that’s probably what they were thinking about you know sending me there. Well I just don’t know whether that’s just ya Sr.M: Now who was the superior in the… Sr.F.L: Well then when I came to De Paul well then when I came to De Paul Sister Marie Antonio Mclenen was here she was the Sister servant and Sister Theresa Vincent Mahoney was the she was the Sr.M: Now what year was that? �Sr.F.L: Was the principal, that was 1937 September 1937. So this is 1987 so guess what it will be fifty years in September. Well I had four years at Westend teaching and then I had forty nine years at De Paul in the classroom and so you add it up at it’s fifty three years in the classroom and while I was at De Paul I had many experiences many happy memories and I’ve learned a lot of things about the deaf and the children and from the very start I was you know asked to do teacher training and I there had been many many girls who have been here and one I cherish the most was Marlene Falco, she came from Connellsville and at that time they took the girls here and they resided in the school they slept here at the school and then they went on to Duquesne university for their education so they helped to teach during the day got their teacher training experience with the children with the with the model teacher supervising teacher and then they went to classes at night or after school you know at Duquesne and got their college credits that way. And so then after a certain number of years they were accredited to be able to go anywhere to teach you know they had got their certification from the state of Pennsylvania and so it was hard laborious work for them, but it was good for us too because we had somebody to rely on and they did a lot of things that we weren’t able to do because we had study hours and we had you know dining room you know duty we had to take care of the children while they ate their meals and there’s many activities, boy scouts, cubs you know brownies, and I had charge of the playmates Sr.M: And what were the playmates? Sr.F.L: They were a little group of children pre brownie group and we had Saint Agnes as out patron and I remember distinctly making the beanies they were made pink not flannel but pink felt and we make the beanies and then we had a lamb white lamb insignia to designate the patroness of Saint Agnes while was their patroness of the their playmate club and we had a playmate flag and it was pink and we had a big lamb on that also and periodically we had entertainment for the children and games and all kinds of activities for them plus health rules and citizenship rules all those kinds of things are necessary for little children and we dramatized the story of Saint Agnes and the children did that themselves one would be the Saint Agnes somebody would be the soldiers ect. So we use to use the stage in the what we use to call the boys hall and because we didn’t have Lady Victory hall then it wasn’t built yet. So we would invite the school and the children would participate from then on and I remember distinctly Mother Evan Fisher was living here at the time and when her birthday came around which was always around the feast of Saint Agnes she always wanted to see this play so we would put it on for her and Sr.M: How old were the children? Sr.F.L: They were six, seven, eight-year-old children they were growing really very active Sr.M: Now they would in those days those were the young children �Sr.F.L: They were oh yes oh yes they were maybe younger than that. Our six years olds were called we called them the babies you know because they were just beginners and so well I have been working with the deaf children almost all the time I’ve been here except period in 1949 I distinctly remember that I was asked to learn the brail and so I was sent to Colombia University with Sister Justine for summer course and Ms. Madeline Lumis was the author of the text book and the teacher and so when I first arrived there I was the only people that applied for this brail course and so the sue provider said well I don’t think we can really you know ask you to take this course you’re the old pupil we couldn’t pay the teacher you know just for one pupil that’s not customary we usually have ten fifteen people in a class and he says where you from and I said Pittsburgh, what part? De Paul Institute oh De Paul Institute well that’s where Sister Theresa Vincent Mahoney’s from I said yes well you’re gonna stay and we’re going to provide a teacher for you because I visited your school and I remember that Sister and I will do that for you, so in the mean time this person Ms. Madeline Lewis was sick they thought she had appendix she really was having cancer but they didn’t know it they thought it was appendix so she had this operation and I had a substitute teacher and I had a hard time with her because I she I knew that she wasn’t as equipped as I expected her to be and the thing is… Sr.M: This is a continuation of an interview being conducted as part of the oral history program of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill. The interviewee is Sister. Francis Louise Honeychuck the interview is being conducted by Sister. Marie Corona Miller at De Paul Institute the date is July 15th 1987 Sr.M: Sister you were talking about your training with the blind Sr.F.L: Yes, well at Colombia they coordinator of the program said that I could take the class so as I was saying I had to take the brail course and I was taught to use the slate and the stylus and that meant that I had to reverse the pattern in pricking the dots on paper which was difficult because it didn’t have the Perkins brail writer at the time we hadn’t purchased one yet this was all so new to me and so this was a six weeks course and after two weeks I was told that Madeline Lumis was ready to return when I was very happy to see her because everything was changed for me, she gave me a better understanding of this whole idea of brail and teaching blind children and I was thinking specifically of Ann Marie Jurard who was going to be our first blind student from Erie her mother had gone to Pittsburgh to consult with Bishop Derden to ask of it thee was any place that her child could be educated she wanted Ann Marie to have a Catholic education and there was no place provided in Erie there was no place in the Pittsburgh diocese and so Bishop Derden said well the only thing he knew that he could do would be Father Darley was building a new building our Lady of Victory Hall and he said maybe the Sisters of De Paul could provided education for her daughter and so in the meantime he consulted with Father Darley and said to specifically leave a classroom for the blind for the physical for the partially sighted and blind children and they mentioned Ann Maria Jurard so �when I was taking the course I was thinking of her doing the slate and stylus and then I knew that when I got back to school that I would we would purchase a brail writer and all the things that we needed in the mean time Agnes Stone who was a graduate from Mount Mercy was a blind women who knew the brail very well and she lived in Oakland at the time and we hired her Sister Theresa Vincent invited her to come out and to work with me and she started Ann Marie some of the things on the brail you know slate and stylus and then she we started to she didn’t stay any more than a year or a year and a half and so then after she left and I took over the whole program and we had students starting to come in and we had then after I guess several years after that I can’t recall which years but it might have been probably fifty-two but I’m not sure 1952 Sister Angelica Little came so it was Sister Angelica and myself who really engineered the blind department she started the music with the children and provided the brail dots for them to read music notations so they could play we had important piano recitals and among those students were Earl Nixon and Thomas Burgander and Marita Matthews and Candy Deet, Cindy Cudis, Denise MCcrilin, Terry McMahons, Cathy Webber, and the Wisemen twins Larry and Jimmy, Larry Mahoney which was a grandnephew of Sister Theresa Vincent, Regee Sullivan, and Timon Jackson and there was another child who came later and I can’t remember his name but he came from the North side and he had a he had a tumor on the eye and when they operated he lost his sight but I can’t remember his name and I’m sorry that I can’t. So Sr.M: Sister in you and Sister Angelica could go to Catholic University? Sr.F.L: Well Sister did yes and I did too but I got most of my training my beginning training at Colombia at Colombia and then later on I went to Catholic University yes and I took some courses there eye in eye conditions and a few other things that you know was required. Then it was several years after that that Dr.Peabody came from Detroit and he was starting a program for the physically handicapped for the blind and partially sighted at the university so he came to visit our class room and he saw the children in their atmosphere, and he invited Sister Angelica and myself to attend the class so that he could begin teacher training so he wanted us to get pointers on what to do to teach the teachers in training so we went to class every week for six weeks and Dr. Mary Moral still lived with us and she was the person who was in charge of the United Presbyterian church who brailed material for us if we wanted anything done for the children she would get a group of women to do the brailing and Sr.M: Were these women blind? Sr.F.L: These women were not blind no and they did the brail work because it was impossible to use all the textbooks, we did the Catholic textbooks Sister Angelica and myself and we tried especially religion books, but they provided the other books and they schlack them on the other side so that dots would not rub out and then they bound them with a big string shoe strings or cut shoe strings and tied and they had the books were huge they were about seven by fifteen you know in size and �they were cumbersome and heavy looking and thick and we had to provide story space for them in Lady Victory hall lockers and itemize everything everything we had . So we went every week to Pitt University and we offered our services and learned a lot too, and we had discussions about and these people came from the blind school and they came from other places that were going to start classes for the blind in the public schools just like they had classes for the deaf in public schools well it was unheard of to have deaf children then because this PL9142 wasn’t in existence then you know so after six weeks we finished our course but that was the beginning of the teacher training program at Pitt University we were invited to join in that you know work Sr.M: Sister I know that you had been very much involved in helping the children begin dressed for their production their theatrical productions here at De Paul. Can you tell us what you’ve been doing? Sr.F.L: Would you sake a theatrical productions Sr.M: Oh I think they’re theatrical Sr.F.L: Well Sr.M: What they can do Sr.F.L: Well anyhow Sr.M: Is marvelous Sr:F.L: It was a Christmas play well Sister Marie Stell and I both had a hand in that you know but lately I’d been doing most of it. In the beginning each teacher was responsible for getting her own costumes and sewing them and so I remember Sister Marie Michael Carol you know in years past needed a pair of pants for somebody and she just found two old pillow slips and sewed them together, but anyhow one point in time we had some material donated from the Altoona Silk Mills I can’t recall who sent them but we had boxes of them different colors of pinks and yellows and blues and you name it and it was boxes of that and I thought oh this would make nice costumes to make nice angel gowns and white you know would be nice for the angels you know Gabriel and so on and so after some time why we made you know people help make the wings and all kind of things and but recently I’ve been more or less commission to do the costumes for the cast so I guess the last six or seven years or so, maybe more than that. When the assignments were given to the teachers to dress the children you know each one had charge of certain groups, one would dress the soldiers and somebody else would dress Mary and Joseph and somebody else the Kings and somebody else the Shepard’s and so on, and Joseph and Mary and so I volunteered to dress them to prepare the costumes prepare the costumes so if any new costumes had to be made I went to the Altoona Silk Mill box and you know dug out some material and cut it up and tried to make costumes for �the children, and we do preserve them from year to year and we try to use them over and over again so when they have to be laundered and pressed and everything and hemmed and re hemmed and re stitched or what have you or lengthened or shortened why I’ve always taken responsibility to do that. Sr.M: Sister beside Christmas play, I know the children did other kinds of plays that happened before I came. Now the one I know that has been mostly talked about was the play To Our lady of Lords now what Sister was in charge of that? Sr.F.L: Oh, that was Sister Larita McGorie and Sister Mary Linus Hoak, they did that their classes it was for the upper class children and that was really magnificent and the children carry candles and it was really really beautiful it was like our you know Lords. Sr.M: Sister when you were a young Sister starting out here at De Paul the pattern of the young sisters going to Seton Hill in the summer was not done by you nor those who were young like you here at De Paul can you explain why? Sr.F.L: Well every summer you see in order to be trained for the teacher of the deaf we had certain number of credits to get and so Sister Brugetta and myself went to Wayne State University for three whole summers and Sister Scholastica Joyce and Sister Ramada Manean taught me this also and it was three long summers and I remember it was eight weeks at a time and the last no ten weeks ten weeks and then the next summer was ten weeks and then the next summer was ten weeks and the last the third summer was eight weeks and in addition to that we had to get our thesis written and had to be in on a certain date and also I took classes at Duquesne University and I went to Pitt University and Catholic University and tried to get as many credits as I could in order to get my state certification so in the end I was certified as an elementary school teacher in the dioceses of Pittsburgh and also deaf education and hard of hearing and in addition to that sight handicapped and blind and then later I was certificated to be a speech correctionist so in all those areas I had my certification. Sr.M: So you almost continued to go to school. Sr.F.L: Yes, Sr.M: All the summers Sr.F.L: Yes, yes it was a continuation practically every summer and then when I wasn’t doing that we were working on curriculum. Now this present the past two years I’ve been working on the curriculum, and the team for that each there are coordinators for each of the teams and for instance Sister Justina Drysockend and David Williams and Thomas Hogue and myself were the language, reading language curriculum of which I was the coordinator responsible for accumulating all the material and seeing that it was done you know properly. This was a must from the �state of Pennsylvania there were certain guidelines we had to do. We had to include our twelve goals of quality education and so we designed the curriculum the language reading curriculum so that any teacher coming in any person who wanted to learn about the deaf who expected to teach here at De Paul Institute would have something to have in hand so she would be able to follow in order to teach the reading systems, and we are presently using the Scott Forcemen series and we have been for sometime, we found them very valuable our children have scored very well in readings all the way up the line and they show progress so we know it’s a good program, and were not about to give it up and the Sister have preceded me have worked really very hard on that, Sister Helen Louise Connolly, Sister Florien Mcgorie and Sister Marylinus, and all those people and so I cant name everybody because there’s so many people involved but it just this year you know it has to be so in November were going to have an auditor is coming in and the state will evaluate our school, and so I’m not the only one this is not the only group we have to update our mathematics department, science Sister Jeremy has to do the science Sister Mary John is doing the mathematics they’re the coordinators of the speech Connie Mcgrogan and perception and all Sister Sara Marie and all the people down in the earlier you know preschool and readiness department they all have to do that. Sr.M: Sister now to go back a little bit further into at De Paul the community of De Paul would you just like you mentioned some of the Sisters who have come and are now gone many of the Sisters have died, like those in many other key positions other than teaching like I’m thinking of Sister Maureen Cogrus was here could you name some of them like some of the dieticians who were here who took care of the meals the nurses that were here. Sr.F.L: Well Sister Alice Elizabeth Nolan was here as a nurse Sister Equanatia Moore was here when I first came, Sister Ail Louise White took care of the laundry Sister Mary Louis Highland was in charge of the girls, Sister Benedicta and I can’t think of her last her family name she charge of the boys and Sister Lea Katy Mahallen was in kitchen she took care of the meals and we had other people also I can’t think of her their names Sr,M: Sister Theresa Marie Sr.F.L: Sister Theresa Marie Jenkins was in the kitchen, she came shortly after she had her hand cut you know she had an accident at Seton Hill and so she came here and I in fact I was her roommate at first over in the ? Sr.M: Well what about the laundry? Sr.F.L: Well Sister Mary Ali Louise White took care of the laundry she use to do my dusters for me and I never knew who ever took them so one day I found out that she was the one who was taking my dusters and washed them for me she was very kind. Sr.M: Well when did Swister come? �Sr.F.L: She was always here, she was here when I was here you know she was here the year I arrived. Sr.M: Sister Rose Gazada Sr.F.L: Yes, ya Rosa Gazada. She talked an awful lot about Germany and periodically she’d get little candles from Germany and we’d have them for our peace days or Christmas we’d light them put them on the table have our peace days all day celebrations and one year she ordered a crucifix from Germany and so we all admired it some of the Sister said they would like to have one you know beautiful hand carved you know beautiful and. Sr.M: Sister what about some of the children who needed some extra help Sr.F.L: Well there were always children who need extra help especially in the summer time. I recall Mark Partridge came and who was now when I first got him in my classroom he could hardly speak in sentences at all and I was surprised the other day he came to visit and he’s present living in Florida and he’s attending NTID college for the deaf and he’s majoring in photography and I was amazed to hear his speech, he was talking as well as you and I beautiful clarity beautiful work beautiful speech but this past year this is Persvel Walker who has been our on auxiliary a member of the auxiliary club for many years at De Paul Institute and who’s son attended here earlier when he was seven years old I had him in the classroom he was a deaf child and recently he had some eye problems he was unable to see so the mother’s desperate and she asks what we could do he had gone to guild for the blind and Sister Connie Ball talked with him and she tried to get him interested in brail and he was very uncooperative and they exactly she called Sister Calamida one day on the phone and said they didn’t know what to do with Robby they didn’t know how to teach him because he’s deaf and so Sister Calamida talked with me and I said oh bring him out here I know Robby I’ll take him and I said it’s been years since I’ve had the brails but I said I’ll do what I can. Sr.M: How Robert Walker graduated in what year? Sr.F.L: Oh I can’t remember what year I can’t remember it’s so long ago probably the 60’s. And so anyhow he came with his father and his father’s now retired and the mother said that the father would bring him everyday for as many times as I would take him. So he stated in December December the fourth and we started out with brail and first he was in the beginning he was reluctant to learn brail because he just didn’t want to be bothered with it but then he began to see that he couldn’t to realize that he just couldn’t do without it because he can’t see can’t hear he can’t properly learn from talking books he can’t hear the talking book and he can’t see the television and he can’t read and so he was just desperate he just knew he had to have the brail. So he started and he came everyday during the month of December and we got started. In January he had to go to Boston for an eye operation and he �saw a specialist there and it was really just a kind of preliminary to see what was what he could do and so after several weeks he came back and we resumed the brail lessons and I had him everyday I took him in the evening and I took him after school some days after school some days it was in the evening which ever time permitted on my schedule. So then during the month of May I didn’t hear from him they had gone to visit his sister in Long Island and they said they’d be away for a couple weeks, when they returned I called and said what happened and they said well there in the process of moving the mother and the father have felt that something has to be done for Robby and they didn’t they know they’re getting older and they didn’t want anything to happen to them without Robby being provided for so they decided to move to Richmond Virginia where they would be near her daughter. So if anything happened to the parents then the daughter would take over. And Robert is the type of person that was very clingy to his parents, he just can’t go without his parents and they realized that and so he’s very unsure of himself because this has happened to him. He was very outgoing in the beginning and he had a wonderful job as a proofreader in New York in Margs position and so it just the mothers just just crushed over this whole thing. So they broke the news to me that they were gonna move so I said alright I’ll take him everyday until he moves, which I did and he was getting along beautifully he began to read and was doing fine so then they had to leave and I said goodbye and I said I would keep in contact with them which I will, already sent a letter in brail to them and I guess it will be awhile until I hear anything because they have to get adjusted in their new home and moving and all that you know it takes time. So that’s that’s the present thing that’s happened. Sr.M: Sister would you like to comment as to the changes which the church as gone through since Vatican II and in turn our own community. How do you feel about those changes? Sr.F.L: Hmmm well when I think of Vatican II I think especially the liturgy. I really appreciate the liturgy in English it has been so meaningful to me. The epistles and the Gospels and the trend toward bible study, scripture, prayer meaningful to you to me to all of us. I have learned to be more spiritual in that area because I feel more prepared than I was at the time when we talked in Latin I mean Mass was in Latin and I am particularly happy to be at De Paul Institute for the liturgy because Father Convoy’s our present chaplain and he has certainly offered many many spiritual assets to our community by his homilies he always has very very touching homilies you know when you leave the chapel you always have something there. Although Fathers been with us so many years at least well I guess its thirteen fourteen years, and he has never repeated one ? and he everything is special when he’s estimation he takes each day as it comes liturgy and he plans everything. He also plans very carefully when we have parent days and also our facility meeting our facility mass meeting that’s at the school and he’s been very much of an inspiration to all of us and we’re very happy to have Father Convoy. And he certainly makes it very meaningful. As far as the clothing is concerned well I think I welcome the change. First I was reluctant to losing the habit and the rosary and the cap and all that but I �can see it’s very beneficial in lots of ways you know Polyester can in to being and we had easier ways of taking care of your clothes and Sr.M: And you did you have done lots of sewing Sr.F.L: Oh yes Sr.M: In the meantime Sr.F.L: Lots of sewing for many people Sr.M: Helping them get into the tradition SR.F.L: Yes yes and ripping the old habits and I remember I ripped the old habit from scratch and made myself a modified dress in the beginning and then when polyester came in I grabbed the chance to do that because from you know stores on sales and to make my own clothes so I do make my own clothes I make my own suits everything my own caps and I offer to make caps for other people and Sr.M: You’ve always been generous Sister Sr.F.L: And so I you know I welcomed that because I liked to sew I’ve always I’ve been sewing a long time even since I’ve been a little girl. I would make baby doll clothes and Sr.M: Did you ever take a sewing class? Sr.F.L: No not really not really but I used to examine how things were made and I would read books and listen to people talking or you know one time Sister Shela was here and she talked about something and Sister Scholastica would talk about something and I’d be listening to them and pick up a lot of things like that and so you know it was more or less a hobby with me I feel relaxed when I sew it’s a hobby for me and some people have I like to do things with needle work too you know for instance last year I made craft work for the De Paul card party Noels for the Christmas items and God loves you, and Sister Mary Bazel Youngling graciously gave me the patterns and taught me how to do that. One day one December when I was on retreat I met her and I happened to spot something she was doing and she says come on and I’ll show you well after a few lessons I was able to do it and so she offered to give me the yarn and things I needed at the time and I recently I made a visit to Carnegie and she gave me some new patterns. So last November the first we had our De Paul card party and those items were presented at the party and you know on sale and so we expect to do some more this year. Sr.M: Sister what about the Sister dolls that you dress for the community �Sr.F.L: Oh well Sister, Mother Victoria after the Vatican II changes and the habit she came here and visit me and she said I like you to do something for me she said could you consider would you consider dressing a doll that we could use for the archives and she said I know that you have done you have dressed many dolls for the Seton Hill festival and they use to raffle them off. Every year we’d have a doll raffled off Sister of Charity doll and I guess I did about ten of them and each year we would and I was in instrumental in getting these dolls through Sis Mrs. Cathy Mrs. Mrs. Webber she was the mother of of a blind student who was here years ago when I taught and she lives in the north side in Pittsburgh. So she would purchase the doll and I would get the material and I would try to get panama from our capes and discarded capes and aprons and anything that was up around anybody that wanted to offer anything were pretty good I would wash them and press them try to use them and so she would buy snaps for me she would you know then particularly remember the last doll that I did. She went to Currner’s especially to try to get a rosary that was long enough that had a preshable number of chains you know between the beads so it looked like our community rosary. So I remember particular that I I really put my heart and soul in it because I felt that was gonna be the last one that I would dress. Sr.M: This was still in the traditional habit? Sr.F.L: It is still in the traditional habit. And so I dressed that one and a woman from West end happened to be the winner at the festival, and she was delighted to be the winner and so she took it home and we never heard from her until last year or two years ago. Sister Sara Louise approached me while I was on retreat and said did you ever dress Sister of Charity dolls and I said yes I did and we laughed and she said well you know there’s a women at West end who won this doll at the festival and she’s had it for a number of years and she decided that she didn’t need it anymore and didn’t know what to do with it so she went to the Sisters of Saint James and asked what to do with it and they recommended that it be sent to Seton Hill so they directed it to me and Sister Sara Louise and here my name was on the outside of the box De Paul Institute it said. So she said would you consider you know she said I know that you dress a Sister of Charity doll for Mother Victoria, which is at the archives right now and she said the mother has gone through the trouble of making a special glass case for that and it stands on a stand and it’s covered so it’s preserved and she says Well Sister Sarah Louise said I know that you have you know dressed this doll for Mother Victoria Mother Victoria’s request now I would like to ask you if you would consider changing the black cap on this doll and putting on a white cap So we will have a white cap Sister of Charity and we’ll have a black cap Sister of Charity for the archives and I said ok I’ll do that I’ll do that. She Sr.M: Now did you already done that Sr.F.L: I’ve done it two years ago two years ago I made the white cap but I thought after I got the doll, I said I don’t even remember how to make the white cap it’s been so long since we wore a white cap and and I even Sister Agnes Theresa and those people around here don’t have any lose you know �Sr.M: So what did you do? Sr.F.L: So I finally I didn’t have a pattern I didn’t have a pattern but I measured the head forehead to the back cross here to see how many inches I’d need across here and then I measured this part and I remembered that the pattern is cut into a like a an oval shape because you have to have more for over the ears ok so I cut it out of a piece of paper first newspaper and put it on her head and then put paper clips to hold it to the hair and then I started a pleat back there to see how it would go and I found out that I didn’t have enough over the ears so I thought this isn’t right I’ll cut more so I cut another pattern out and then I cut an old sheet and tried it on an old sheet first an old piece of muslin to see how that would work and I found it was gonna be workable. So then I got some white material and Sister Sarah Louise said do you need material and I said no I I’ll have something I’ll have something. So I made the white cap for her and then I took the sleeves out and I put new sleeves in it and I took the collar out and put a new collar in it made a new collar and then I took all the clothes off and washed them and pressed it so she was all done up freshened up and then I put her back in the box ah first I had her on the stand and I showed everybody and Sister Sara Marie wanted to take it to school and I said oh no you don’t the kids aren’t gonna touch this doll I don’t want it fingered I said it’s going to the archives. So so I sent it back to her and then I got a beautiful letter from Sister Sara Marie Sara Louise thanking me for doing that. So that was but I I I couldn’t do a doll anymore I just don’t have the patience and I don’t my fingers are not nimble enough to do the fine work that I’d like to do you know very tiny hems it’s really tedious work so that’s it. Sr.M: So Sister is there anything else that we left out that you want to tell me Sr.F.L: I think I’ve said everything I wanna say Sr.M: Well I really appreciate spending this time with you reminiscing about this the days here at De Paul and a lot of the things that I didn’t know that you went through before you came to De Paul. I just wanna say that community is very grateful for the time you’ve given and this will be a part of our archival collection for the oral history program. Sr.F.L: Thank you Sr.M: Thank you Sister God bless you A correction is needed to indicate Sister Francis Louise’s appointment for her first mission at Westend. Was given by Mother Rose Genevieve Rodgers instead of Mother Marie Benedict Manahon. �Sr.F.L: Correction also was given the date of reception of the habit was not 1934 it was 1932 June 1932. Another correction navicent sisters who were with me in the first year of the navicent Sister Alice Marie Crates instead of Sister Alice Marie Moran. Thank you Sister of Charity Oral Histories Interviewee: Sr. Francis Louise Honeychuck Interviewer: Sr. Marie Corona Miller March 19,2004 This interview is being conduced as part of the Oral History program of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill. The interviewee is Sister. Francis Louise Honeychuck. The interview is being conducted by Sister. Marie Corona Miller at Caritas Christi. The date is March 19,2004. This interview is a revision of one given at DePaul Institute with Sister Francis Louise on July 15,1987. Sr.M: Good morning Sister Francis Louise Sr.F.L: Good morning Sister Sr.M: I am happy to be with you again so that we can do a revision of your history. So do you want to begin you personal history? Sr.F.L: Yes, I was born in Mount Pleasant October 23,1914 and baptized on November 1 at visitation church Mount pleasant PA. My name was given the given name was Emma Marie. My father died on October 12,1918 during the flu epidemic after his death my widowed mother and her six children Robert age 10, Andrew age 8, Laurence age 6, myself age 4, Helen age 2, and John who was born three weeks after my fathers death moved from Mount Pleasant to Scottdale Pennsylvania. It was my mothers responsibility with her great faith and trust in God her life in prayer to raise us together as a united family. My mother went to work each day cleaning offices taking in washings and whatever she could find to earn the money to support and provide for our home and needs. She insisted upon having a good education for each one of us. We were fortunate to be educated at Saint John the Baptist school Scottdale PA by the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill. I attended elementary education at Saint John the Baptist school Scottdale PA 1921 to 1929. I also attended high school at Saint John the Baptist school until my junior year. I recall some memories before school age how I had to keep my Sister Helen and my little brother John sitting on chairs all morning until my mother came home from work each day. We never thought of going outside or leaving the door open at anytime or making any noise while we were at home. We patiently waited for our mother to come home. Walking one and a half miles to school in the morning and coming home for lunch and back again to school in the afternoon gave me the exercise and the fresh air that �I needed to keep me healthy. On rainy days I rode the streetcar the fare was three cents for a ticket. I recall when I was young I became interested in trying to sew baby doll clothes I cut the patterns from newspaper to make to try to make the clothing fit my doll, I remember going to Millers big store on Pittsburgh street Scottsdale PA. I looked all the patterns that were for sale on the rack I wanted especially to know how to make a dress with a flared shirt for my doll. After at looking at all the patterns about a cent in my pocket I came home and cut out a pattern. Since I was too little to peddle my mother’s sewing machine I sewed everything by hand. On Christmas morning Santa brought me my own sewing machine later I heard that it cost about five dollars, I was happy to get it, but after several tries I found out that it really did not satisfy me very well. So I naturally turned to my mother’s sewing machine. When I was in high school I made a dress for my sister Helen and one for myself. On Saturday mornings I helped my mother do the cleaning at the Casket factory Scottsdale PA. My job was to clean the sinks the toilets and to mop the floor with soap and water while my mother did the same to the rest of the building. I recall picking up oodles of straight pins off the chairs, floor, anywhere. They had been dropped by the ladies who used the pins to make while silk lining inside the coffins. Since I had to take care of Helen and John at home, I was almost seven years old when I started to go to the first grade at Saint John the Baptist school in Scottsdale PA. All my teachers were the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill. When I entered high school at Saint John’s I began to take my lunch because the lunch hour was shorter and I had to be in class on time. It was during my junior year that I began to consider what my vocation might be in the future. At age 17 I entered the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill navicent on November 25,1932 actually it was Easter Sunday March 27th because Good Friday fell on March 25th the feast of annunciation in the year and I was told to come on Easter Sunday. I became a posolant to receive the black lace cap to cover my hair and a simple black dress with a short with a black short-sleeved cape and of course black cotton stockings to wear there. After six months and making a silent retreat for six days, I received my long black habit including a black surged pleated apron and cape a white starch collar and white cap with detachable bows under my chin. I also received a long black rosary to be worn at my left side. A new name was given to me now I was called Sister Francis Louise. One year later I made another silent retreat for six days, at the end of the retreat I received my first black silk cap and bows, I also received a new black habit pleated surge apron and pleated cape. One year later I pronounced my simple vows of poverty chap obedience. I renew them yearly until years later I pronounced vows for life. I attended classes in preparation for navicent training as well as methods of teaching technique and remained a Seton Hill navicent until 1934. Then I was assigned to begin teaching third, fifth, and sixth grade students at Saint James school Westend Pittsburgh PA from 1934 to 1937. During the Saint Patrick’s day flood 1936 all the Sisters in the convent were evacuated by boat to Divine Provence convent, we were welcomed there to eat our breakfast. Mother Evan Fisher told us to get to any convent and they would be able to take care of us. I went to Saint Stevens’ convent with four other Sisters’ by train to stay until the flood stages were over. Within a week I was asked to go to Saint Iranians Convent Oakmont PA with Sister Ann Seton Boyle. I was asked to substitute teach students in �the fifth and sixth grade because the teacher was sick. I stayed there for two weeks, then I returned to Saint James school Pittsburgh PA and taught students on the second floor near the library because the basement classrooms were not useable. After teaching third, fifth, and sixth grade in elementary education at Saint James school Westend in Pittsburgh PA, I went to the DePaul Institute in 1937 to being the service training for the hearing impaired students. During the years I worked with severely deaf students ages six to twelve with six or seven students in the class with emphasis on teaching speech reading lip reading from blind to facial expression lip reading and speech and language development using the oral no sign language method of instruction for all elementary subjects. Many of these students didn’t have the educational background needed for success namely because they were transferred from other schools or just didn’t experience personal achievement in their early education. The ultimate mission of De Paul Institute was to prepare students for success in a hearing and speaking world. Since I had some experience in teaching hearing students at Saint James School, I realized that quality education was needed for a student to transfer to a regular school. I had to provide guidance and direction to make the most of the gifts and talents of the students and to advance them to there fullest potential so that they would make the transfer successfully, it was a hard laborious job but it was very rewarding in time. Many students have attended high school and college and have successful careers. During the years 1949, 1970 a new direction came to my teaching career. Bishop Diren of the Dioceses of Pittsburgh had requested De Paul Institute to begin teaching blind and partially sighted students the history of these years can be found in the archives of the Sisters of Charity and also the De Paul Institute archives. I was asked to take a course at Colombia University and to become certified in transcribing brail using the perpins brail writer. There were a number of blind partially sighted students who attended during those years. Other teachers and especially Sister Angelica Little were involved in teaching these children. I recall the many years that students from the University of Pittsburgh, Duquesne University, and the Indiana University of Pennsylvania came for a period of six to ten weeks for their in-service training in education for the deaf. The students welcomed the opportunity to use their lip reading skills in a variety of experiences, in which the in service training of the teachers provided for them. The students always enjoyed taking part in Christmas plays singing Christmas carols and patriotic songs. They had the advantage of being taught everything that a hearing student could experience in a regular school program, even joining boy scouts and Girl Scout activities. They were always eager to put on their costumes that were prepared for them by the Sisters of De Paul Institute. They loved to display their talents to please their parents who were proud of their accomplishment. After full time teaching, I spend five years tutoring students at De Paul Institute. This was done on the private basses for students who needed special individual help for reading and language development to further their success in joining other students in daily classes provided by the De Paul Institute curriculum. The parents were grateful for their accomplishment. For the next two years I volunteered recording individual speech records for students during the school hours. This consisted of a grant at De Paul Institute the teachers were required to record the minutes of each student for speech analysis rating them �I for improvement N for no improvement. Papers were collected each week and recorded. The total number of papers for each month were recorded and given to the schools psychologist and were sent to the state of Pennsylvania for evaluation. Money was granted for the results of this money and it was used for to buy computers and other equipment for the use of the De Paul students. �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Sister Marie Corona Miller Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sister Francis Louise Honeychuck Location The location of the interview De Paul Institute Pittsburgh (Pa.) Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Audio cassette tape Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 31:54 31:55 31:52 07:54 01:02:34 Bit Rate/Frequency Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio) 96kHz Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Honeychuck, Sister Francis Louise Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Sister Francis Louise Honeychuck Description An account of the resource An oral history of Sister Francis Louise Honeychuck, a Sister of Charity of Seton Hill from 1932 until 2017. The interview was conducted by Sister Marie Corona Miller and was also partially self-taped. Sister Francis Louise Honeychuck - born Emma Marie Honeychuck on October 23, 1914 - entered the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill in March of 1932. She received a bachelor's degree in education from Duquesne University in 1947 and a master's degree in education from Wayne University in 1955. She taught at St. James School in West End from 1934-1937 and at De Paul Institute from 1937-1997. From 1948-1970, she helped to develop and oversee De Paul's services for blind children. Having learned Braille through Columbia University, Sister Francis Louise submitted a Braille translation of the book Black Beauty in order to complete her program. She received a Volunteer Braille Transcriber certification from the Library of Congress in 1962. Sister Francis Louise died on April 29, 2017. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Archives of the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1987/07/15 1997/02/17 2004/03/19 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource All rights belong to the Sisters of Charity of Seton Hill, Greensburg, Pennsylvania. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio cassette tape Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral history Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context OH-65 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/e9045a29ce91e2cddfe87ea9011dbd84.pdf cff5969bec48f6770e248db7c6515a11 PDF Text Text 1 ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW OF SISTER MARY CLARE HUGHES, D.C. JUNE 17, 2019 CONDUCTED BY SISTER MAUREEN SCHMALZRIED, D.C. Transcribed July 9, 2019 by Scott Keefer Sister Mary Clare, Welcome. It’s good to have you with us today. I wonder if you could tell us something about your vocation story. Well I’m happy to be with you and to talk about the community rather than my vocation story, but I’ll tell you a little bit about how I came to the community. In the summer of [19]42, my sister said to me, “Clare, are you going to the community or not?” And I said “OK, do you have to know?” Well, she said, “if you’re going to the community, I’ll get married in August. If you’re not, I’ll have a Thanksgiving wedding.” Well, I said, “Kitty, maybe you’d better consider August.” So she was married August 29, and I left home on September 8. I already had one brother in the seminary and one other sister married, and shortly after I came to the community, two brothers were conscripted, and there was no one home with my mother. So if I hadn’t come that September of ’42, I don’t know when I might have come, or if I would have come. But anyway, I did come in September of ’42, and I postulated at old Mt. Hope [in Baltimore], and we had about 20-some other women postulating with me at Mt. Hope, and it was a great time. Getting used to living with more than your own family, getting used to living with the sisters day by day – because in high school we went home at the end of the day. We didn’t live with them-- Mt. Hope eventually became Seton, but when I was in postulatum, it was called Mt. Hope, so I should be referring to it as Mt. Hope. I left Mt. Hope to go to the seminary around December 2 of 1942, and my vocation date – the day I recorded as entering the community – is December 14, 1942. I was in the seminary ‘til January of ’44, and I was missioned to St. Joseph’s School, Martinsburg, West Virginia, and I was missioned to the third and fourth grade. Of course, I knew discipline was a problem, but Sister Imelda Maillette was a first and second grade teacher separated from me by a cloak room. So she helped me out, and gradually the discipline became possible for me. So you began as a teacher? I began as a teacher, but, in January of 1946 my Sister Servant received a call from Emmitsburg to ask me if I would consider entering nursing. Well, I had one time thought of nursing, so I couldn’t say no to the community, although I was very, very happy teaching and happy in Martinsburg. But as I say, I couldn’t say no. �2 So I left there within a week to come up to St. Joseph’s, because I was getting to the class in the College, and the second semester had already started. So that was the reason for my quick exit from Martinsburg. I had two other sister companions, Sister Annina Scharper and Sister – I think her name became Mary, I’m not sure – I knew her as Angelica Ahl, and the three of us went through nursing together. [note: Sister Angelica’s name became Sister Margaret] From the College, we went down to old Providence Hospital in Washington, D.C., and we had women companions in class with us, and they were delightful. We went through our basic nursing with some courses out at Catholic University, because we were matriculating for a Bachelor’s of Science in nursing, so the degree had to come from the Catholic University. It was called Providence Hospital’s School of Nursing at the Catholic University when I went there. As I finished my nursing program with my baccalaureate, Sister Isabelle [Toohey] asked me if I would continue and matriculate with my Master’s program, which I did do. So I didn’t leave Providence Hospital until January of ’51, at which time I was missioned to Jacksonville, Florida. On my first mission to Jacksonville, Florida, I was named Director of Nurses, and in those years, the Director of Nursing had both nursing service and nursing school, but of course I had an assistant in the school and an assistant in nursing service, but they were very happy years. I was a very young sister on that. There was only one other young one, Sister Jane Francis Fairley. All the other sisters were elderly and it so happened that the community asked me in May of – I’m not sure the year, but I’ll think of it later – if I would become the Sister Servant and administrator. Well, my father and mother had taught me obedience, so no matter how I felt about it I had to say yes. So I followed Sister Evelyn Roach as the administrator and Sister Servant. The sisters were delightful. They were just delightful. They supported me in many many ways. For instance, one sister was approached by one of the doctors, and he said, “Sister isn’t Sister very young to become the administrator?” And Sister Philomen [Scholl] said to him, “Doctor, Sister is older than the Queen of England.” She didn’t say by a couple weeks though. But that was the type of support I received and it was just delightful. That helped a lot, didn’t it? It was a great help, a great help. And I had others. Pauline Mitchell who was just a wit of our creation and so many other sisters. Of course, in those days, we had many more sisters assigned in the hospital. Unfortunately, they began to dwindle. I was administrator there for just two years when the community asked me if I would go to Saginaw, Michigan as the administrator because Sister Camilla, who had been the administrator there was chosen as our treasurer. So sister came to Emmitsburg, and I went from Jacksonville, Florida to Saginaw, Michigan in January, the coldest month. �3 When I got to Saginaw, all I could see was grey. It was grey outside. Everything inside was painted grey. It was just a grey situation. Sister Constantia Clark was assigned to help me in Saginaw the construction being done when I went there. She also thought it was too grey for everybody, so when it came to painting our refectory, we had three grey walls and one coral wall, and it just made all the difference in the world in our lives, because three times a day we had the benefit of that brightness and looking at our sisters in a very bright way. So we loved it, and I loved it, and I loved Saginaw. Another advantage, one block away was St. Vincent’s Home. So we had another community of sisters nearby, and that was delightful. They came over every Sunday morning for the second mass. Those were the years when we had a second mass on Sunday, and then we went back to St. Vincent’s to have breakfast with them. It was just such a comradery, and we looked forward to those weekends, and they looked forward to our coming over to their house. Nice community time. It was a beautiful community time. I received word, however, after two years in Saginaw that I was going to be missioned here to the Provincial House, and I was going to be a member of the Council. Sister Eleanor [McNabb] had just been made Visitatrix in August. In January, I was missioned from Saginaw – you’ll note that was two years exactly that I was in Saginaw – and Sister Marie Daly happened to be in Saginaw when I left. So we drove down to get a train in Detroit, and as we drove down to Detroit, we listened to the takeoff of [Alan] Shepherd going out into outer space. So I always remember that astronaut’s feat in relation to when I left Saginaw. What a memory! Then I came here to Emmitsburg and found out that I was going to be acting as the assistant to Sister Eleanor, which I thought would never going to work out, that I didn’t have enough experience, that I wasn’t old enough. However, God was very generous in his graces, and his sisters again-- the support, they practically carried me along. I couldn’t help but do OK. I don’t know that I did well, but I did OK. I remained here, believe it or not—I think I was here 21 years, 12 years as assistant to Sister Eleanor and nine years as Visitatrix. So that totals I think 21 years. In those 21 years, many things happened as far as community and vocation is concerned, and I’ll bring them up as we talk a little bit more, like the canonization of St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, the beginning and continuation of general assemblies in the community. It was a great grace to be at the first one. We had one that was scheduled for two years in a row over Christmas and New Year. It was I think 1968 to 1969. The Perfectae Caritatis indicated that all communities must have assemblies and elect their general superiors. Well we were already electing our General Superiors by the Sister Servants of Paris. But with the new constitution, that election was designated to be carried out by the general assembly. �4 During the 21 years that I was here at Emmitsburg at that time, many, many major events took place, and I was very blessed to be here for those particular events. For instance, we closed the [St. Joseph] College. That wasn’t a fortuitous event, but it was a historical one, and it occurred in 1973, but there were other community events that were even more historical that I shared in, such as going to the general assembly. That only could be an experience that I wish every Daughter of Charity could in her lifetime experience. It is such a community event that—it’s just almost unbelievable to tell somebody when you think that there is a Visitatrix and one or two delegates from every province in the world participating in that meeting, and you just realize the depth of community experience that’s there and the love of the community as expressed by those members of the general assembly and how for the sake of the community they worked hours and hours into the evening and early morning hours to get the best in our constitutions so that our community could have the strongest community life in order that we would take care of the poorest of the poor. And oh! Some of those sisters lived in such poor countries. To hear the representatives from Madagascar and Mozambique speak, it was wonderful for we Americans to learn from them exactly how they took care of the poor. It encouraged us, motivated us to come back to our country, our United States of America, and do even more for the poor if that were possible. It was just such an experience of service of the poor as we experienced an even wider community living among the members of the assembly, and we were doing that to strengthen our community life, our prayer life, for the service of the poor. What a grace! Such a wonderful privilege and such a wonderful, wonderful grace! The assembly started in Rome because that’s where the Church asked us to start. But guess what. The mayor of Rome had all these religious communities moving into Rome, and we were tax-free. So he went to the Holy Father and asked that the Church stop asking the communities to have their headquarters in Rome because he needed more tax money, and we were coming in and coming in, but not taxable. How interesting! In the summer of 1946, I was home here at St. Joseph’s for summer courses, and Mother Antoinette Blanchot was elected during that summer. She stopped here at Emmitsburg, so we had an opportunity to meet her, and what a fortunate occasion that was because we all became fascinated with her writings as she took office in Paris. It was just a great gift to have met her on the way to Paris. That was special. �5 I came to Emmitsburg from Saginaw in January of 1952, and I do think I’ve mentioned this before, but I was here for the exhumation of the remains of Elizabeth Seton, which took place on October 26, 1962. For those of us who have never been present for one, I was very taken with the strict legality of it. We all had to take oaths that we would not touch anything, that we would not move anything, and we kind of stayed in the same position all during the exhumation. And when the two pathologists took the bones of Elizabeth from the coffin that she was in and laid them out on—I would say a door, it was a long board—they put all the bones out to identify them, and they identified them by her height and other indications that they – the professionals – knew but I didn’t know. One of the things they told all of us was that one of the phalanxes of one of the toes of Elizabeth Seton was missing, and they could not go on without that. So we all were quite concerned that this would throw off the process of the beatification, but fortunately one of the secretaries remembered that there was a relic of Elizabeth Seton in the safe of the Visitarix’s office. So we waited while she went and got that phalanx, and that pathologist verified that it was the missing phalanx of the toe and then they verified that it was a completed skeletal remains of Elizabeth Seton. What a privilege that was. Was any of the clothing left? You know, I don’t remember whether any of the clothing was left, but if it were, it would have been just pieces of clothing. I would have remembered if it were a dress or a cape or her cap, but I do not remember that. All I remember was the dust and the bones and the little coffin. I came to Emmitsburg in January of 1962 and was named, God help me, Provincial assistant to Sister Eleanor McNabb. Of course, because I was assistant, I had opportunities for which I am most grateful and which I thank God every day that they were available to me. I was present for the beatification of Elizabeth Ann Seton on March 17, 1963, and that was the last official act of Saint John XXIII. Of course he was not Saint then, he was John XXIII. But we could tell even then that he was not well. You could tell it from his eyes, the dark, dark, dark circles of his eyes. But it was such a glorious occasion. We who were there had to thank the many, many sisters, college graduates, friends of the community who had worked so hard for Elizabeth’s beatification. They had had all types of petitions signed and sent to Rome, and it was they that should have been fortunate enough to be there. But we tried to represent them by expressing our gratitude to them to Elizabeth on that special occasion. In December of 1963, Mother Guillemin visited Emmitsburg. I should know much more about that visit. But unfortunately, at this point, I remember just the highlights. One of the highlights was Mother wanted to see the lights of New York. That amazed me because I know the city of Paris is called the City of Lights, but she wanted to see New York. So we went to New York in the early evening. We crossed all the bridges of New York so that Mother Guillemin would have a good look at New York City from different vantage points. The next day we took her to view the windows so she could see the windows along Fifth Avenue that were fixed for Christmas, �6 and of course, we took her in to Saks Fifth Avenue so that she could see the decorations. But you know right well we didn’t buy anything at Saks Fifth Avenue. And of course, Mother didn’t know what Saks Fifth Avenue was, but the decorations were glorious to view, and we were happy that we were able to show them to Mother Guillemin. And she was happy to see them. Oh, I’m sure she was happy to see them. Of course, there are two very particular occasions that occurred later in the month of September of 1964, and the first one was the change of the habit. And if I recall correctly, it was September 12, and, miraculously, the whole world changed on December [correction: September] 12, whenever that date was in their country. Because Father Slattery and Mother Guillemin had gone to Spain because the Spanish sisters would be the ones that would gave up the most in changing the habit, since they had had—even while we wore the cornette, they wore a different headpiece. But Father and Mother asked them if they would change, and they agreed to change. So the whole world changed on that date of September 12. We’ve had to be very grateful. So they agreed to go along with it, and that’s why everyone was so grateful. They agreed, and they changed. It’s remarkable, I was here at the Provincial House, and we were a much larger group of sisters here then than we are now that it went so smoothly. But one sister, after mass, went back upstairs and took off her new coif and put on her cornette and went about her daily chores. One of the workmen saw her and immediately got in touch with another sister to tell her that Sister Frances Miller had changed back into the old habit. So the sister explained to her that we would no longer change after mass and put on a different coif or a different cornette, because in the old days that’s what we did. We wore a special a apron and a special cornette to mass and holy communion and after breakfast. We changed them, and that’s what Sister Frances did. She was just keeping with tradition. But it was wonderful that everyone was able to change throughout the world. And of course you know, as everybody does, that the coif changed quite quickly. I don’t remember the date that we got word that the white wouldn’t curl underneath the blue as we first did it and it was straighter and looked much more finished and tailored. But everybody... it’s remarkable, the simplicity that was manifested in that change. All regretted losing the cornette because it was so widely known and we received it when we received the habit. But everyone was so simple in accepting the decision to change the habit, and, as we all remember, it was recommended by the Second Vatican Council. And I was just so amazed and full of thanksgiving that that change went as well as it did. It was all grace. Grace through and through. �7 Later that same month of September, the 20th to be exact, I think only something like eight days, a week and a day, another enormous change took place for all the sisters here in Emmitsburg, and that was our move from the old Provincial House to the new Provincial House. Remember, that was two gigantic changes for the sisters in this mission, because they were primarily the older sisters of the province, the older ones who were here because they could no longer manage steps or some of the physical conditions on the missions, or they were in the infirmary. We had a great number of sisters here, but they accepted that change so beautifully. The sisters came in from the missions to help walk with the sisters, or if they needed to be driven down to the new provincial house, they went along with them. In essence, it became a bit of excitement instead of a chore. It became almost a celebration, and that helped to make everybody so accepting and so grateful, because when they saw the new provincial house and all the amenities it had provided each one of us, we couldn’t help but be grateful. It was beautiful. It was beautiful, there’s no doubt about it. Of course, as you recall, we didn’t have the basilica for many, many, many months. The chapel was in the large room beneath the basilica, which was not divided up as it is now, it was just a large auditorium at that period. The alter was on the stage, but as I approached that chapel one morning, that’s when I became aware of the difference in our habit. I entered those three little steps down into what is now the museum of the basilica, and you saw nothing but the dark, dark, dark headpieces, which you didn’t see upstairs because the sisters weren’t in rows next to one another. But down there we had to sit in rows in order to fit ourselves in, and it was the area where I was very aware of the difference in the habit. But again, that was just a feeling, and I could thank God that the change went well, and it was better for everybody that we had change. I remember people saying how dark everything was because we were used to seeing the white cornette and the white collar in the back, and it was all dark blue. Yes, it was very, very dark And just another P.S., I was a postulant in 1964, and we could not wait to get into the basilica, which we called the big chapel. And we decided we would be in for Christmas, and Christmas came and went and we did not get in it. So we finally went in it on January 16, 1965, and we declared, that must be Christmas. I think that’s very important that it be known and recognized that we really didn’t move in ‘til ’65. January 16, that date sticks into my mind. And the crucifix had a corpus on both sides. That’s right. The large crucifix over the alter had a corpus on either side of the cross. Later, I’d say maybe a year or so, might have been earlier, someone pointed out that that was not �8 liturgically correct, that we just had the corpus on the side of the cross that the congregation viewed. So the figure on the reverse side of the cross was removed, and I have to say I don’t know where it went or what happened to it. But it was a gorgeous figure, but unfortunately... I’m sure some church has it now. Someone told me that they gave it to some church. I don’t know which one it was. I’m sure it was given to a church, but I’m not sure which one at the moment. Another momentous occasion arose during my years up here, and that was the establishment of the domestic, provincial, and general assemblies, and it was so edifying – and that’s the word that meant the most to me, it means the most to me right now – it was edifying to see how everyone in this facility entered into that preparation. Because those of us who were in the community at that time remember we had to fill in little blocks along the edges of all the papers, and that was a bit hard for fingers that were arthritic or old, but the sisters entered into that very, very industriously. And they wanted to share, because this was the community’s future, they wanted to share in those questions, and knew that their questions would represent them at the assembly. So they worked very hard on those first questionnaires. It was wonderful to see. And then of course, after those went to Paris, we entered into our first provincial assembly, and that was held in what is now the Shrine. It was the large space under the big chapel as it was called then. It was not yet known as the basilica, and that assembly was held in that room. And we do have pictures to go along with this, I know. But the table was up front, and at the table sat Sister Eleanor and Father [Charles] O’Connor, and, I’m pretty sure it was sister Mary Carol Eby was the secretary of the assembly. Although by constitution, it was probably the provincial secretary, so I think Mary Carol must be up there reporting, but I’ve seen a picture and reviewed it so often, and it shows Father and Sister Eleanor and Sister Mary Carol giving a report at the microphone, and I think that’s why her name immediately came to my mind. That room was filled because our province then comprised the whole Eastern seaboard, Ohio, and Michigan. So that room was filled. But at the election of delegates for the assembly during those days, Sister Hilda Gleason and myself were elected as delegates to the first international assembly. The reason I’m stressing the word international is that assemblies were held in the community before this, but they were only attended by the Sister Servants of Paris. And of course we had to remember that we had a couple hundred houses in Paris. So it was a large assembly, but it was limited to the particular geographical area. Again, by mandate of Perfectae Caritatis, our constitutions were looked at and updated and representation from all the provinces was indicated as the best way for all the Daughters of Charity to be represented at the general assembly. So it was with such anticipation that we went to that general assembly, and believe me, we took every Daughter of Charity with us, because we knew that we were only there as delegates it was emphasized. �9 Now, the Visitatrixes were ex officio, but the delegates were delegates elected by the provincial assemblies. So we were very conscious. It’s amazing, when you are elected, how conscious you are of being the representatives of those who elect you. But it was such unusually new experience for the delegates who were there. We learned how to accept and sit while somebody spoke in Portuguese, or somebody spoke in Spanish, or somebody spoke in Italian, or somebody spoke in French, or somebody spoke in English to be very mindful of what they were saying. And this was not as difficult as it sounds, because we had simultaneous translation. Every member of the assembly had simultaneous translation, and that was such a great benefit to each one of us, because no matter what the delegate or Visitatrix, no matter what language she spoke in, we got the translation in our own language. What a tremendous benefit that was. During the assembly, on August 11, 1968, Sister Hilda Gleason was elected a General Councillor, and that was a real privilege that she should come from our province. We know now that the holy spirit was behind our voting that day, because Sister Hilda, after her term as General Councillor, was missioned to Taiwan, as Vice-Visitatrix of Taiwan, and then later became the Visitatrix of Taiwan and served the community so admirably both as General Councillor going all over the world in that role and then establishing the community and similarly helping to establish the Church in Taiwan with such a tremendous role, and Sister filled it admirably well. Two of the Sisters in Taiwan under Sister Hilda were Sister Evelyn Frank and Sister Annina Scharper. Neither of them had any study in the Chinese language, so they were both named to go to the University, and they attended the University for two years and became, in that being together, great friends, and that friendship has endured to this day. When Sister Evelyn was Mother General, she had occasion to come here to the United States on business, and she always stopped to see Sisters Annina. It showed us that a happy friendship can exist in our community and remain very strong and loving and still be just such a boon to everybody around them, not just the two of them, because we shared in that friendship as well. It’s not my intention to give a chronological history in giving my autobiography, but as I relate community events, I think it’s important to name the date when something happened, or to give the date when something happened, so I am aware that as I mention what happened in my life, I am giving dates and just ask you to forgive that and understand why I’m doing it. We like to have dates. Oh good, we like to have dates, well that’s good. Mother Chiron came to Emmitsburg in January of 1969 for the erection of the five provinces of the United States. From the original two provinces, which were established in 1910, the St. Louis and the Emmitsburg province, were to be subdivided into five provinces. For that occasion, Mother Chiron came to Emmitsburg, as did the sisters, as many as could, from the other provinces to be present for that at the establishment of their new provinces. It was a wonderful occasion. �10 We know that the provinces of Los Altos Hills [California]; St. Louis, Missouri; Evansville, Indiana; Albany, New York; and Emmitsburg, Maryland were established in January of 1969. Many wonderful things occurred because of that division into those five provinces, and we see God’s hand in that because more Daughters were able to become acquainted with other aspects of their province, of their missions, of their ministries, and able to take greater part in it. We see that that was a wonderful event not just for the community, but for the Church, because we were better able to serve the poor through the division of the provinces. Of course, history has changed that, and we’ve reunited, but that is history. That’s what happens in history, but at the time of the division into the five provinces, there was an upsurge in interest in the community and a greater ability to serve the poor in our various missions of the five provinces, so it was a wonderful event. It was the right thing to do at that time. Right thing to do at that time. It was the right thing. A major change occurred for the Emmitsburg province in July of 1972 when the sisters of Villa St. Michael in Baltimore, Maryland moved here to the Emmitsburg campus, and that involved 133 sisters. I was on-deck for that, and it was so remarkable, and so enjoyable, and so edifying if I may still use that word to see how those sisters took that change. Now you remember, most of them would be in the 80s and 90s and some even in the 100s, but they came up here as delighted as they had been to go on their first mission, because it was something new for them, and it gave fresh views and fresh things to do to sisters who had been settled in their retirement in Emmitsburg. It was wonderful occasion for us who lived here as well as for those who were coming to join us in our community life here in Emmitsburg. Believe it or not, Mother Teresa of Calcutta, now Saint Teresa of Calcutta, visited Emmitsburg in October of 1975, and I have done a little bit of math on that, that was just the following month Mother Seton was canonized in September of ’75, and Mother Teresa came in October. And her reason—expressed reason for her visit was to visit the tomb of Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton. It was an unusual visit in every sense of the word. The Council had to be the night before in Wheeling, West Virginia for the retirement festivities of Bishop Hodge Joseph Hodges [Joseph Howard Hodges]. He had been a product of our St. Joseph’s School in Martinsburg and had kept close to the community all through the years, so the Council was scheduled, and the people in Wheeling had bene notified that the entire Council would come. When we heard about Mother Teresa’s wish to come here, and her schedule wouldn’t allow for any changes, so we were in Wheeling ‘til about 11:30, and then we drove back to Emmitsburg, and I don’t think anybody who took that trip was in bed before 2:30 or 3:00, and Mother was due here at 8 in the morning. That’s the only time that her schedule would allow. But you know, it’s like everything else, if you turn it over to God, it works out well. We didn’t show too much fatigue that day, and Mother was bright eyed and so interested in anything we could share with her about Saint Elizabeth Ann. �11 She stayed through the dinner hour, and I can still see her standing by the mike, where you so often stand Maureen [addressing interviewer], just where that mike is now. She stood and talked to the entire community. And what did she talk about? She talked about love. How all of us need and appreciate loving and how anyone with whom we come in contact in our various apostolates, as they were called then, needs to be shown love. It was such a simple but effective message for every Daughter in that refectory, and we had to express our gratitude to Mother Teresa for that, because it was message that everyone valued, and it also showed Mother Teresa’s great sensitivity to any audience that she might be speaking with, and I think her visit brought great benefit to any of us who were present here for it. Recently, there was an anniversary of that visit, the 50th anniversary of that visit, and the pictures came up on the email on the iPhones, and one of my nieces told me that her son had pictures of Mother Teresa visiting Emmitsburg that day. They were on email; we had not put them there. So I think that maybe the Frederick Post would come that day to take pictures of Mother Teresa and seen that they got on the email for the 50th anniversary of her visit. Because to Frederick, that was a visit to Frederick County, not just to St. Joseph’s, Emmitsburg. Richard McCullen, our Superior General, visit Emmitsburg in 1982. His warmth, his wit, and his wisdom charmed all of us. Two stories associated with his visit are always in my mind. The first is that the five Visitatrixes came together with Father to receive council and to ask questions of him, and during that visit, the five Visitatrixes and Father went out to the Shrine of Saint Vincent on the grounds of the Provincial grounds because it was in a new setting, and Father was going to re-bless the statue. He did do that, and we were conscious during the blessing that there was a reporter there because she had her little pad and was making notes with what was occurring and what remarks Father might have made. But it surprised us because we finished the blessing, but the young lady cornered Father and kept him for quite amount of time, and we just stood off waiting for him to join us for our continuation of our meeting. However, it went to over half an hour. So the other Visitatrixes went inside, but I waited for Father. When the young lady finally left, he came to me and said “Sister, I’m sorry about that, but that was that young lady’s livelihood.” How conscious I was by that remark, that Father was always conscious of his service of the poor and showed his great compassion and understanding of other people. Another story that happened while Father was here. He was very busy during the day, so he went to see the Villa sisters after supper. Of course, many of them were already in bed, but that didn’t phase Father. He went from room to room, and he’d say to the Sister as he entered “Sister, would you care to receive my blessing?” and of course they’d say yes. We went into this one room, and he said that to the sister, and the sister said “Oh Father, I’d be happy to have your blessing.” And with that, she pulled her hands out from under the covers, and she had black woolen gloves on [holds hands together in front of her]. Of course, Father and I wanted to laugh, but we had to hold our mirth until we left sister, because it just showed her �12 great reverence for the blessing of God, particularly when it was given to us by our Superior General. That visit showed his great concern for every sister, because it wasn’t just the Visitatrixes he met with. He’d greet every sister, and if she wanted to stop, he’d stop. It just showed me a completely wonderful side of Father, just to see him in action, and his gift of sharing himself totally. He really gave himself completely. During that same time period, Jimmy Carter, the President of the United States, also visited the Shrine of St. Elizabeth Ann Seton. Accompanying him were his wife, Rosalyn, and her mother, his mother-in-law. After touring the Shrine and listening to a brief account of Elizabeth Ann Seton’s life, he was very relaxed, comfortable, enjoyed what he was seeing and hearing, and did not seem a bit hurried. As he was leaving, the sisters gathered around the front door, and he was there among us, and I mean among us because the Daughters surrounded him. As he left, he gave me an embrace, and that picture was picked up by many of the newspapers in our country, and circulated, but happily it was because he was at the Shrine of Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton. That was special to have him visit wasn’t it? Oh, it was very special to have him visit. Rosalyn was very simple also, and the mother-in-law... She was part of the little party. They stood in the Shrine over by the alter of Elizabeth Ann Seton and just asked any questions and listened to our responses and anything we shared with them. It was a lesson for me in true simplicity. True simplicity. And I’m sure other sisters could tell you many other things about that visit of President Carter. But it was really a highlight of my years here in Emmitsburg. The President of the United States and the head of the Congregation of the Mission and the Daughters of Charity. I see them as two wonderful events in my time at Emmitsburg. I should have said this first. The day before our President came to the Provincial House, the FBI crawled all over our place. Every nook and cranny of the Basilica, the corridors that he was going to traverse, the lobby that he was going to enter in to, it was crawling with FBI men. But of course, the Daughters enjoyed it, because they saw what happens when you do have a person who is subject to all types of untoward people who might want to get a hold of him. They have to be very careful where he goes. We understood it, and we just enjoyed the FBI men. We would try to converse with them, but they were serious about they work. They didn’t really enter in. They were gentlemen, but they were about their business. Throughout my terms here in Emmitsburg, I was very much aware of the support I received from our Vincentian brothers, and that included believe it or not Father [William] Slattery, Father [James] Richardson, and Father McCullen during my terms. I was also here for other terms like Father [George Gregory] Gay’s, but it was after I was out of office that he came. However, Father Slattery was not only admired by we the Daughters of Charity of Emmitsburg and the United States. When we did go over to the assembly, we saw the respect, love, genuine appreciation of our French sisters for Father Slattery. �13 This is just a little aside, but you know when we changed the habit back in 1964, the whole world changed at the same time, because Mother Guillemin and Father Slattery went to Spain and asked the sisters of the two different habits there if they would change to the universal one, and they all agreed. So on that day of the change of habit, the whole world changed, and I just thought the pair of them, Sister Guillemin and Father Slattery could convince anybody to do what the Lord wanted us to do. Thank God for that. Yes, thank God for that. In addition to the generals that gave assistance to me, I have to be very aware of the Directors who shared their understanding, their knowledge of the community, their appreciation of what the Daughters of Charity were doing with me and what an assistance that was in my years, and I must particularly mention Father [Charles] O’Connor and Father [John] Cusack. I know they’re both in Heaven now, and I hope they’re praying for this province and the larger St. Louis province as it is now, because they really worked with us at the grassroots, and I think they can present our situation to God and get his adit. We always have God’s support, I’ve no doubt of that. But even more mindful they will make him of what we are doing down here, I’m sure. I cannot forget though that we also had the Brothers in town. At one point we had five priests at the priests’ house in town. They came over here for confessions. They came over here for all types of liturgies because the Shrine was fairly new at that time. We had many, many types of events and liturgies, and our Vincentian brothers were always on deck. You could count on them. We could have 15 bishops, but hidden behind those bishops were our dear C.M. brothers, and were they wonderful to us. I’ll have to tell almighty God how grateful I am for them. As I listen to myself, I keep hearing the word “thanksgiving,” and that’s a word I know I will always associate with my vocation, my years in Emmitsburg, my understanding and working with so many different wonderful sisters and priests, particularly our Superiors. There all owed a deep gratitude, but I’ll come back to that a little later. After I left the terms up here in Emmitsburg, I worked for a number of years in different apostolates. I was at Providence Hospital for two years, Jacksonville for another two, Bladensburg for two, and then in 2000, I was asked to assume the directorship of the Shrine of Saint Elizabeth Ann, and I filled that role to 2005. That made me so aware, as I was jotting those dates down of how my life here in Emmitsburg was so intertwined with that of Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton, our American foundress, because I was here for her exhumation, her beatification, her canonization, her removal of relics from the College chapel to our Provincial House chapel, her removal relics from above the alter of the Provincial House chapel to where they are now in her little Shrine in our basilica. As the years passed, I saw what other Directors in the Shrine have done and how they have had so many different programs and booklets and occasions to invite the public and how we are �14 progressing in making Elizabeth Ann Seton known to more and more Catholics. It is, as I want to emphasize, the part of so many of our lay staff that are doing that. But the seed is growing. The seed if growing because so many come and are greeted so well by our staff of the Seton Shrine that many of them do return, and even return from distances. It is with great gratitude that I’m aware that that’s occurring. From the Shrine, I was assigned to the ministry of prayer in the Villa St. Michael, and I came here in January of 2006. What a tremendous missioning that was for me because being here at St. Michael’s Villa, has really been the zenith of my vocation. I am here among many wonderful Daughters of Charity who have had all types of experiences, all types of encounters with the poor, all types of experiences that they share with us, we share with one another, and it has been so enriching. I myself must say, I think my years at the Villa, as I remarked earlier, are the zenith of my vocation. It is such a grace and a blessing to be here among them. Here I celebrated my 75th year of vocation, and here, as I said, I live with such marvelous Daughters, and without trying, just being, there is a togetherness that is most unusual, and so affectionate, so caring, so supportive. I just think that God saved the Villa, and he saves it for many sisters, as their last mission because I am with so many excellent Daughters, and we are all on the road to deeper companionship with Jesus, so there is a union among, and a purposefulness among us, not artificial, it’s just there. It’s part of us. It’s such a great experience of community. I have always loved the community, but I think I have experienced it in it’s completeness, it it’s fullness here at Villa St. Michael. Thank God for the Villa. Thank God for my sister companions. If I could sing, I would sing the hymn “Praise God from Whom All Blessings Flow,” for as I worked on these taped minutes of my autobiography, I was more and more aware of the fact that my life was one complete succession of graces and benefits from God. I know family, faith, community are tremendous blessings from God, but all of them, faith, family, and community, have become deeper in my awareness of God’s goodness to us by living in the Villa. I cannot stress that enough. I would put that at the basis of all my happiness in all my final years of community living. We’re all getting ready to join him. We’re all trying to deepen our companionship with Jesus, so that when he comes for us, we will love him as much as we can, and that forms a bond that I’ve never felt before. I’ve always loved community, always stressed that the three middle words are “You” and “I,” and it has to be together we form community. But in the Villa, it is not just expressed, it is lived and it is felt. And it propels me forward, and I thank God with all my heart for my years at the Villa, and also for all his blessings of faith, community, family, anyone else that I received during my whole life, I want to thank him for them. But the zenith is the Villa. And we thank you, because you have been a blessing to us also. � https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/f16c2b384223325d5e3a08afecfec962.mp3 9e1e6b22f3d15097bc09e7897b9cf991 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/918e80a540ed8d55237eac7052aa394d.jpg 20024b385c23d7ce3d24d775bfef1b57 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Daughters of Charity, Province of St. Louise Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hughes, Sister Mary Clare, D.C. Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Hughes, Sister Mary Clare, D.C. Catholic hospitals Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul. Emmitsburg Province Description An account of the resource Sister Mary Clare Hughes, D.C. discussed her life in community as a Daughter of Charity. She began her career as a nurse at St. Vincent’s Hospital in Jacksonville, FL and St. Mary’s Hospital, Saginaw, MI before becoming Assistant Visitatrix of the Eastern Province of the Daughters from 1962-1969, Assistant Visitatrix of the Southeast Province from 1969-1974, and Visitatrix of the Southeast Province from 1974-1983. Relating to her time in office, she discusses the first Provincial and General Assemblies of the community after Vatican II, the changing of the Daughters of Charity habit, the exhumation of Elizabeth Ann Seton in anticipation of her beatification, the division of the five provinces in 1969, the closing of St. Joseph College, the building of the new provincial campus in Emmitsburg, and important guests such as Saint Teresa of Calcutta and President Jimmy Carter. She also discusses her close collaboration with General Councillor Sister Hilda Gleason and Vincentian Superior Father Richard McCullen. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hughes, Sister Mary Clare, D.C. Schmalzried, Sister Maureen, D.C. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Daughters of Charity, Province of St. Louise Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019-06-17 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Keefer, Scott (Transcriber) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Rights owned by Sister Maureen Schmalzried, D.C. Permission for any type of publication of archival materials, including text, photographs, video, or audio must be secured from the Daughters of Charity Communications Director before publication. Contact archives staff for appropriate forms and contact information. Relation A related resource RG 1-3 Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton Collection RG 3-4 Habit Collection RG 4-31 Rev. Richard McCullen Collection RG 6 (General Councillors) Hilda Gleason RG 7-4-5 Erection of Five USA Provinces Collection RG 9-4-1 Sister Eleanor McNabb Collection RG 11 Emmitsburg, MD – St. Joseph’s Provincial House Collection RG 11 Emmitsburg, MD – Seton Shrine Center Collection RG 11 Emmitsburg, MD – Villa St. Michael Collection RG 15 Provincial and General Assemblies Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource 1:08:20 Audio/mp3 Application/pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Hughes, Sister Mary Clare, D.C. Oral History Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1924-2019 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/358e2399a44ebbb97536178a31fca847.jpg 85ae24ee12b2d16e319c9dfa112d5a32 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/1625221d1993e6e75ea4486a4c323dd9.pdf 669a463a32647c90bb8c38472f6298e9 PDF Text Text Sister Jean Kulangara I was born on the 2​nd​ of June, 1947 to my parents K.P. George Kulangara and Mary George Kulangara. My father was a merchant and my mother a housewife. I lost my mother at a young age. To some extent, I played the role of a mother to my younger siblings, especially my youngest brother, Sunny. We are seven children and I am the fourth in line. I have four brothers and two sisters. All of my siblings are married and well settled in life. Both my father and mother were very religious minded people. They encouraged us to go for daily Mass and weekly confession. I was very regular in religious activities in the church and in the school. Every evening, the family gathered together to say evening prayer which lasted one hour. Unlike any other children from my childhood, I had a special liking for prayer. Both my parents had devotion to the Blessed Sacrament. My mother convinced me of Jesus’ presence in the Eucharist. From my childhood, I wanted to be a religious and cherished that desire. In my childhood, I used to pray to Mother Mary to make me a Sister – a good Sister. Surprisingly, on the 1​st​ of January 1962, a priest I did not know told me that God was calling me to be a religious, and I should say “Yes” to Him. I felt that this priest was God’s angel to me. I was so excited and happy about this message because it was what I had been asking God and Mother Mary. June 1966, I left home for Mokama. Everything was totally new for me - the language, food, culture, weather, etc. None of these things mattered to me because my desire to be a missionary was great. I did miss home and my family members, but I was mostly concerned about learning English and Hindi. As I learned the language, I was happy because I could communicate with the people of Mokama. I made my first profession in 1970 and final vows in 1975. I was extremely happy on both occasions. My first mission was in Mahuadanr. I felt happy that I could teach well in the school. I was very active and used my talents to teach, dance, and sing. In the evenings, after a day of teaching, we went out to the villages to visit the people. I liked the simple life style of the village and mission. In Mahuadanr, Sisters Marianne Puthoor, Rosemarie Lakra, and I were asked to help out in the retreat for the students. I counselled a few students and conducted prayer services with them. I felt it was a rare privilege to share an experience of God with the students. From my teaching job, I was appointed as the principal of the school. I have been both teacher and principal in different schools and I feel that I have been successful in my career as a teacher and principal. Although I did not volunteer to go to Nepal, I was happy that I was chosen to go. Initially, I spent a few months learning Nepali. I learned the language fast because I like to talk to people and spend time with them. I worked as a social worker and taught Nepali, sewing, knitting, etc. Thus, many girls were helped to earn their livelihood. I was a pioneer in Dharan and continued similar work helping the poor women and girls. Later, I was the vice principal of the school. I enjoyed working in the school, though we 1 �had to face a lot of problems with Maoists in that area. God helped us, and we experienced God’s protection every moment of our life. Here I would like to say that I am an easygoing person and God has gifted me with a gentle and pleasant approach to people. When anything happens, I take a “let it be” attitude. So much so that people say, “Jean is cool as cucumber”! I did not go through any big crisis in my life except my mother’s death when I was fourteen years old. I love my SCN community. I was and am happy in my mission wherever I was and am. I was happy to be chosen to serve in another foreign country when I was sent to Belize. There I did pastoral ministry in the parish in Belize City. I worked as a counsellor in the school and parish. I helped the women to read and write and do some art work like making baskets. I prepared a group of boys and girls to write class X exam. Later, one of the boys who got a job working in USA, told one of the Sisters “It is because of Sister Jean I have reached here”. I was delighted to hear this and thanked God for using me to help people. For two years, I worked in Nazareth Hospital in Mokama as a counsellor and pastoral Sister. I consider these years especially blessed because I was able to give an experience of God to people by my gentle, loving listening. I hope and pray that God will use me to touch many more hearts and to be able to give and experience of God to more people by my gentle, loving presence and listening. I call myself a “Jack of all trades and master of none”. I have had a tangible experience of God, especially during my retreats. I felt Jesus was walking with me, or I was walking along with Him. I particularly like to recount one such experience in Ranchi. Toward the end of the retreat, some of us fasted for three days. The third day I spent a lot of time in prayer. It was midnight, and no one else was around. I was alone in the chapel. All of a sudden I began to pray in tongues, praising and thanking God without my being aware of it. I experienced God and was overjoyed and peaceful. I am happy that we care for both physically and mentally challenged, and work for the welfare of children and women. We must continue these ministries and take up providing homes for the aged and care for the poor and marginalized, as well. My wish for the SCNs would be that people see us as praying Sisters rather than professionals running good schools, hospitals, etc. People do not see us as simple, maybe because of our dress which is not simple in appearance. I wonder if people see us as religious. As I look back, these are few of my reflections on life and the SCNs: When I was small and even in my high school days, I thought religious life was to pray because I used to see Sisters praying a lot. Later, I realized that Jesus said to us “Love God and love one another”. For this I need to pray and be united with God. Jesus also said “Give the good news to all”. This means give Jesus to all, through my life and ministry. 2 �For me, religious life is a pleasant experience. I have enjoyed my life in the SCN community. It is where I have experienced a lot of joy and happiness, though I faced difficulties and problems in few places. Today, as I look back at my life, I can say I have forgiven all and feel assured of forgiveness from others. I worked in the capacity of coordinator, teacher, principal and administrator and I feel I have done my best. My motto in life was and is “To live and let others live”. For me, prayer and community life are very important and are two pillars of my religious life. If my life is built on these two pillars, my mission will prosper and my life will automatically be a Good News to all. My message to the young members is that we need to be a praying community to help us in community living – where love and care is experienced. This will automatically flow out to our mission, and our mission will flourish. Loved and strengthened in community, we move out to our mission to love and strengthen others. 3 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Unknown Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jean Kulangara, SCN Location The location of the interview India Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jean Kulangara, SCN Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Kulangara, Jean, SCN; Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource SCN Archival Center Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived SCN Archival Center Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 7/11/1905 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for any type of publication of archival materials, including text, photographs, video, or audio must be secured from the Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Archival Center before publication. Contact archives staff for appropriate forms and contact information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MMC-JeanKulangara Sisters of Charity of Nazareth https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/421a446f30cfff484a2209062dfe67da.jpg af328ce2244d49957f3e15fe0bf4a381 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/26bd8a2221ea7a2ac3d8245b844e08e9.pdf 3ff843e374f045185e57fd60dfba51c3 PDF Text Text My Life Story    I,  Chinnamma  was  born  on  February  20,  1944  to  Mathai  and  Mariam  Urumpil  in a small parish called Thodanal, Kottayam District, Kerala State.  We  were  eleven  children  in  our  family  -  seven  boys  and  four  girls.  My  parents  lost  two  sons  before  I  was  born.  In  chronological  order  they  are:  Mathai;  late  Annamma;  late  Chacko;  Sebastian;  late  Joseph;  late  Chacko,  CMI;  late  Devasia;  Thomas;  Chinnamma,  (Joel,  SCN);  Mary  (late  Sunanda,  SCN)  and  Philo.  In  1991,  Sister  Sunanda  died  unexpectedly  of  cerebral  malaria  while  serving  in  Sale,  Mahuadanr.  We  belonged  to  an  ordinary  peasant family.  My mother was only five years old when her parents passed  away.  She had also a three-year old sister and their grandmother managed  to  bring  them  up.  Sadly  my  father  was  put  out  of  his  home  by  his  elder  brother.  For a couple of years he worked as a daily wage labourer near my  mother’s  place.  Later he married my mother and settled in her home since  she  had  no  brothers.  My  father  was  simple  and  devoted  to  the  family  especially to my mother who being an orphan needed the extra affection and  care which my father provided.  My brothers and father worked very hard to  provide for us with basic minimum facilities.     Like most children, I had a carefree childhood and enjoyed playing outdoors  with my five brothers.  My brothers tried to discipline me but I wanted to be  equal  with  them.  I  played  freely  with  the  children  in  the  neighbourhood  regardless of their caste or religion.  As I grew older I took care of the goats  and helped on the farm.  My mother and sisters-in-law did all the household  work  and  I  did  not  have  to  help  them  out  in  any  way.  My  mother  was  sociable  and  a  friend  to  the  poor  and  she  was  popular  among  the  neighbours.  To me she was like a friend or an older sister.  Once I forgot to  take  my  tiffin  (midday  meal)  to  school  and  she  brought  it  to  me  walking  three kilometres.  A beggar used to come to our home once a month and my  parents treated him like a member of our own family.      One  of  the  outstanding  memories  of  my  childhood  is  my  First  Holy  Communion day.  The teacher asked me to get flowers from the neighbour’s  garden  to  make  the wreaths.  Also, since I was good in singing, I was given  the  privilege  of  leading  the  hymn just after receiving Communion.  Another  happy  memory  of  mine  is  that  of  spending  time  with  my  father  and  the  workers  in  the  field  planting  ginger  and  doing  other kinds of work.  Eating  with them in the open field was a picnic for me.  I also enjoyed playing in the  stream,  plucking  wild  flowers  and  reading  some  books  on  St.  Francis  of  Assisi.    ​Since  I  was  not  very  strong  physically,  I  also  wanted  to  prove  to  others that I could do anything like everybody else.      1 �I  had  my  primary  education  in  our  parish  school.  I  went  to  N.S.S.  (Nair  Service  Society)  Middle  School,  Poovarani  run  by  Nairs,  a  Hindu  group.  Though I was a Catholic the teachers liked and encouraged me.  I was good  in  my  mother  tongue,  Malayalam  and  sports.  I  had  many  friends  in  the  school.      For  Class  VIII  I  went  to  a  school  run  by  the  Adoration  Sisters  at  Kanjiramattom.  My father, however, wanted to stop me from further studies  after  my  passing  Class  VIII.  I  was  not  very  happy  about  it  because  my  father allowed my older brother to continue his studies even though he had  failed in Class VIII.  I was very angry with my father and refused to eat for a  whole  day.  But  that  did  not  work.  Two  weeks  later,  the  Sisters  sent  a  teacher  to  our  home  to  find  out  why  I  was  absent.  Though  they  tried  to  persuade  my  father  it  was  my  brother  Chacko’s  strong  argument  that  changed  his mind.  I was the first girl to pass matriculation examination in  1961.  The  same  brother  arranged  for  me  to  go  to  Mokama  for  nurses’  training  that  year.  I  was  the  first  girl  to  leave  our village for studies and I  was  overjoyed.  I  also  wanted  to  get  out  of  my  home  soon  because  I  was  afraid that they would marry me off at any time, as was the custom.      I  found  it  difficult  to  adjust  to  the  way  of  life  in  Bihar  especially  the  food  habits.  We  had  to  learn  two  new  languages  (English  and  Hindi)  simultaneously.  The  misery  of  the  people  around  Mokama  moved  me  to  tears.  As I ate my normal food in the hostel after my training, the thought of  people  who  were  starving  often  came  to  my  mind.  From  then  on  I  had  a  desire to work with the poor after my training.      My  call  to  religious life may have its beginning with the singing and square  dance practices that Mary Jude Howard, SCN, conducted for the nurses, the  candidates and novices.  I was happy about this opportunity to mingle with  the youngsters in SCN formation.  Seeing me in action, our nursing director,  Sister  Veronica  Maria  (Ora  Mae)  Brownfield  told  Sister  Marita  Ann  (Teresa  Rose) Nabholz, the candidate director, that I might have a religious vocation.  One day Sister Teresa Rose asked me if I was interested in joining the SCNs.  It was as though I was waiting for an invitation and I said, “Yes.”  One of my  brothers was very angry when he heard about it.      I  joined  the  candidacy  in  September  1962  while  I  continued  my  nursing  studies.  My companions were Maria Palathingal, Lucia Thuluvanickel (now  deceased) and Karuna Thottumarickal, also nursing students. As candidates  we used to go to the villages with the public health department.  Every time I  was  with  the  very  poor  people  I  felt  uncomfortable  as I had the privilege of  having everything I needed. My urge to work with them continued.    2 �  Teresa Xavier Ponnazhath, a trained teacher and Rosemarie Lakra, already a  trained staff nurse, joined our group.  Since we were older, our group had a  shorter  period  of  postulancy  than  others.  We  were  a  close  knit group and  have been together for the last fifty-six years.  It was a sad day for us when  Sister Lucia was called to eternal life on November 10, 2017.      Sister  Teresa  Rose was our director through the candidacy, postulancy and  novitiate.  Other  teachers  were  Sisters  Patricia  Mary  Kelley,  Rita  Puthenkalam,  Margaret  Rodericks  and  Mary  Celeste  (Gail)  Collins.  Sister  Josephine  Naduvilekunnel  who  later  discontinued  taught  us  Hindi.  Sister  Mary  Jude  took  us  for  singing  and  spoken  English.  We  were  twenty-four  postulants  and  novices,  at  one  time.  Sister  Teresa  Rose  encouraged  us  to  write  short  stories.  I  believe  one  of  my  stories  written  in  Malayalam  influenced one of our Sisters to join the SCNs.  Our formative years were the  happiest when we were moulded by experienced SCNs who were like potters  at their wheels.      During  our  novitiate  days  we  had  strict  discipline  of  keeping  silence,  responding  to  our  duties  by  the  ringing  of  a  bell,  common  recreation,  etc.  On  visiting  Sundays  we  were  allowed  to  mingle with the nurses and senior  Sisters  for  an  hour  or  so.  During  recreation  we  made  rosaries,  sorted  out  used  stamps  and  there  was  plenty  of  singing.  We  would  wait  for  the  day  when we were allowed to write letters to our family.  The six of us were also  given the duty of helping the new candidates and postulants to get adjusted  to  religious  life.  We  were  also  given  time  to  read  books,  practice  dramas,  dance,  debate,  etc.  I  liked  the  books  on  the  lives  of  saints  such  as  Br.  Martin  de  Porres,  St.  Therese  of  ​Lisieux​,  St.  Joseph,  the  Worker  and  whatever books were available on St. Francis of Assisi.      I  made  my  First  Vows  on  July  19,  1968.  I  was  ready  to  give  myself  completely  to  God,  to  go  to  the ends of the earth and serve the poor.  After  six  months  of  juniorate  training  in  Ranchi  I  was  sent  for  Public  Health  Nursing  at  Lady  Reading  School  of  Nursing,  Delhi.  My  companion  was  Bridget  Vadakeattam,  SCN.  This  study  again  re-enforced  my  attraction  to  work among the under privileged and oppressed.    My  first  assignment  was  to  be  one  of  the  pioneers  in  our  Bakhtiarpur  mission with Sisters Mary Frances Sauer and Lucia Thuluvanickel in 1971.  Although  I  had  completed  my  Public  Health  Nursing,  I  had  no  practical  experience but I was ready, enthusiastic to do anything.  I was put in charge  of the tuberculosis (TB) control/eradication program along with the Medical  Mission  Sisters (MMS) at Maner.  Those were hectic days with a lot of work  3 �to do.  Dealing with the flood victims was an annual feature of our ministry  but it was a very satisfying work.      Sister  Mary  Frances  was  the  administrator  of  our  health  centre  in  Bakhtiarpur.  She  was  my  mentor  and  a  loving  older  Sister  who  loved  the  poor.  At  times  we  found  her  impatient  but  she  always  made  sure  to  ask  pardon  from  anyone  who  may  have  been  offended  by  her.  Her  spirit  of  humility  was  an inspiration to all of us.  On Saturdays Rev. Father William  Goudreau,  SJ,  was  a  welcome  guest  for  prayer  and  supper.  We  shared  freely  about  our  ministry  together.  We  worked  together  as  people  in  one  mission with the sole purpose of helping the poor.  They guided me to lead  an exemplary missionary life.  Once we found a sick beggar woman with her  son  on  the  railway  platform.  Sister  Mary  Frances  and  I  carried her to our  clinic  and  ministered  to  her  for  four  days.  The  lady  was  very upset in the  beginning  but  as  the  time  came  closer  to  her  death  she  became  very  calm  and she died in our arms.  During the emergency, I became interested in the  work  of  the  social  activists.  I  was  allowed  to  travel  to  Chaibasa  alone  to  attend  their  (underground)  meetings.  There  were  both  lay  and  religious  people in the group.    At  the  end  of  the  five-year  TB  program.  I  myself  became  a  victim  of  the  sickness and was advised to take rest in Mokama.  After that I worked in the  Public  Health  Centre  there  for  two  years.  I  initiated  the  “Village  Health  Workers  Program”  in  and  around  Mokama.  In  expanding  the  clinic,  more  facilities  were  provided  at  a  low  cost  for  the  poor.  I  got  help  from  Sister  Xavier  Valiakunnackal,  SCN,  (deceased)  in  conducting  family  counselling  and singing for the village women.      My  pioneering  in  the  Nepal  mission  in  April  1979  was  another  important  chapter  in  my  life  and  a  faith  experience.  I  learnt  to  adjust  to  living  in  a  foreign country with a new group of people, their language, culture, extreme  weather  conditions,  etc.  I  understood  what  daring  and  risk  taking  meant  when  I  walked  for  three  days  at  a  stretch  and  spent  the  nights  at wayside  shelters.  I  did  not  feel  burdened  because  it  was  my  choice  to  visit  a  few  Christians  who  lived  on  the  mountains.  After  visiting  many  villages  away  from  Kathmandu,  we,  Anne  Marie  Thayilchirayil,  Jean  Kulangara  and  I  decided to work in a village in Godavari near St. Xavier’s School.      One day, Rev. Father Alan Starr visited us and he shared with us the plight  of the Christians scattered throughout the valley.  They were Catholics from  Darjeeling in India who had migrated to Nepal looking for jobs.  Since Nepal  was  a  Hindu  kingdom  at  that  time  they  were  afraid  that  they  would  lose  their  jobs  if  the  government  came  to  know  about  their  religion.  They  4 �hesitated  to  attend any Church services conducted by the Jesuit priests on  Saturdays which is a holiday in Nepal.  And yet, a few came quietly for Mass  to  a small, narrow hall at St. Xavier’s which was used as a church.  Father  Alan  mentioned  that  there  was  no  one  to  visit  them,  pray  with  them  or  to  take care of their spiritual needs.  While listening to him I felt a deep urge in  me  to  look  for  those  scattered  Catholics.  The  next  day  I  talked  with  the  Maryknoll  Fathers  who  were  ready  to  employ  me  as a nurse.  They had no  problem about my choice to work in the parish.  To begin my work, I would  daily commute to Kathmandu by bus.  Seeing my plight of daily travel to the  city,  the  I.B.M.V.  Sisters  gave  me  a  room  in  their  convent  in  Jawalakhel  where I could spend the weekends with the Catholic families.      Searching  for  the  scattered  Catholics  in  the  Valley  was  a  real  challenge.  I  went  with a woman companion to help me to find their houses.  At the end  of two years, we were able to organise our Catholics into a faith community  and we began to have Mass at different centres.  The Maryknoll Fathers had  helped  me  to  introduce  the  concept  of  basic  Christian  community  among  our  people.  I  taught  regular  catechism  classes  for  the  students  of  St.  Xavier’s  School  and  a  few  parish  children.  I  can  proudly  say  that  the  pastoral ministry in Kathmandu was begun by the SCNs with the support of  Father  Alan.  After  four  years  of  ministry  in  Kathmandu  Valley,  Father  Casper  Miller, SJ, who was appointed as the episcopal vicar of Nepal asked  us if we were ready to leave the Valley to look after the spiritual needs of the  Tribal Catholics in East Nepal.  They had migrated from India to work in the  vast tea gardens there.      In  February  1983,  with  SCNs  Francine  Moozhil,  (deceased)  and  Rosemarie  Lakra, I moved to Damak village situated six miles away from the bus stand  in the town.  I did socio-medical work among the people of tea gardens and  in  our  village  for  four  years.  Sister  Francine  stayed  home  with  me  and  helped  me  with  knitting  classes  for  the  women  and  medical  work.  There  were also Santhal Tribals in East Nepal and since Sister Francine knew their  language  she  chose  to  work  among  them.  Sister  Rosemarie  opted  to  visit  the  tea  gardens  on  foot,  for  the  most  part,  to  take  care  of  the  people’s  spiritual needs.     While  working  with  the  Santhals,  Sisters  Anne  Marie  and  Francine  invited  Gracy Thombrakudy, SCN, from India to give a retreat to the people.  Sister  Gracy asked Father Thomas Vettickal to accompany her.  During the retreat  a  group  of  Nepali  policemen  arrested  the  two  of  them  along  with  the  catechist  and  Sister  Francine,  accusing  them of proselytization.  They were  hand-cuffed  and  made  to  walk  all  the  way to Biratnagar in the hot sun for  5 �two  hours.  Their  imprisonment  was  a  real  blow  to  all  of  us  and  going  to  meet them in the prison was a harrowing experience.     While in Nepal, I had a fifteen day renewal program at Godavari Ashram, in  Kathmandu  guided  by  Rev.  Father  Pius  Thekemurry  ​and  Dr.  Vinayan  (a  Hindu  activist)  in  1985.  The  retreat  was  based  on  socio-political  analysis  with reference to the gospel of Luke.     In  1986 I joined the Bihar ​Dalit Vikas Samiti (B.D.V.S.) in Barh with Sheela  Palamoottil,  SCN.  Here  I  learned  to  work  with  a  lay  person  who  was  my  boss.  After  about  two  years  of  work  there  I  felt  the  need  to  be  more  systematic in my approach to social work and so I went to the Indian Social  Institute  (ISI)  in  Bangalore  for  a  three-month  course  on  socio-political  analysis.  This  course  changed  my  life  and  gave  me  a  new  vision  and  perspective  as  a  religious/follower  of  Jesus.  I  wanted  to  bring  about  a  radical  change  in  the  existing  system  of  exploiting  the  poor  and  the  marginalized in our society.  At ISI I was also able to explore the true nature  of God as an inner source of power in my life and all of creation.      In  1988,  with  the  blessing  from  my  provincial,  Shalini  D’Souza,  SCN,  I  joined  Sister  Marie  Tobin,  MMS,  and  a  group  of  lay  people  led  by  Sri (Mr.)  Vinay  Senger  at  Hunterganj  block,  Chatra.  A  Dalit  family  shared  their  limited  space  in  their  village  house  in  Khutikewal  with  Sister  Marie  Tobin  and me.  Since Hunterganj was an entirely non-Christian village I decided to  change  my  name  to  Jyoti  Behen, (sister of light) as Marie Tobin and others  had  done.  We  became  one  with  the  people  even  though  they  were  prejudiced against Christians in the beginning.      My  experience  of  working  in  the  liberation  movement  in  Bihar  in  the  seventies and eighties with Philip Manthara, Rob Currie, Stan Lourdswamy,  all  Jesuits,  had  helped me in my choice in moving to Hunterganj.  ​In those  days  the  SCNs  were  already  involved  in  working  with  the  deprived  in  the  villages  thus  it  was  not  difficult  for  me  to  get  permission  to  live  and  work  with a lay group.  Sister Marie Tobin was a blessing for me as she supported  me whole-heartedly until she left for a leadership position in her community.      My  father  who  was  in  his  eighties  passed  away  in  August  1990.  He  was  bedridden  for  nine  months.  Before  he died he told my brother, “Take good  care  of  your  mother”.  At  his  funeral,  our  parish  priest  narrated  how  my  father accepted everything as good without a word of complaint.  Even if the  food was too pungent or bland, he would always remark, “O, how tasty it is!”  I remember him telling us, “Be what you are, and do not try to imitate your  rich  friends.  Everyone  knows  you  belong  to Urumpil family.”  He was very  6 �much  appreciated  in  our  area.  After  his  death  a  rolling  trophy  was  instituted in his honour to promote sports.  My mother also passed away on  September 20, 1993 in her 80s.  She was also bedridden like my father and  could  not  speak  or  eat  by  herself  in  the  days  leading  up to her death.  My  sisters-in-law were heroic in serving our mother!  I could not attend either of  my parents’ funerals because I was living in the interior villages in Chatra.      The  twenty-nine  years  I spent in Hunterganj were hectic, risky, challenging  and yet fulfilling.  Feelings of isolation from the community were part of it all  and I learned to depend upon the generosity of the people in every way.  The  Bhuia  community,  the  lowest  rung  of  the  social  ladder  in  particular,  were  enabled  to  find  their  rightful  place  in  the  society.  For  the  first  time,  the  women were organized and girls’ education was promoted.  Before this time  the  women  were  not  treated  with  dignity.  Quarrels  in  the  family  were  common and they were not allowed to attend any kind of meetings.  I joined  in  their  struggle  against  the  landlords.  The  landlords  around  the  area  had  captured the unused government land and the landless people now became  aware  that  they  could  recapture  it.  It  was  possible  for  them  to  do  so  because  all  of  us  supported  them  from  behind  the  scenes.  In  spite  of  the  murder  of  four  of our leaders, the people stood together and fought against  the landlords.  They captured around 2500 acres of land from the landlords  and  then  the men went underground to escape from the landlords, Maoists  and  the  police.  The women and old people were left behind to work on the  land.  I  needed  a  local  woman  to  work  with  me  but  no  one  was  willing  to  take up such a job at that time.       After  we  became  a  well-organised  group,  we  named  our  ​voluntary  organization  as  ‘​Chetna Bharti  (awakening  women)  and  got  it  registered  in  1993.  ​We  felt  the  registration  was  essential  for  our  survival  because  the  government had termed us as terrorists and for the Maoists we were agents  of the police.      As  the  land  was  distributed among the people, a piece of land was used by  us and we put up a mud house and named it as Khutikewal Ashram.  Life at  the  ashram  was  not  all  that  easy  for  me  as  I  was  the  only  woman  in  the  team  and  the  people  were  still  patriarchal  in  their thinking.  At times I felt  side-lined  as  a  woman.  I knew that I had to leave my feeling aside and set  up my priorities if I wanted to live and work with the people.  Being reflective  by  nature  I  depended on the Bible and the life of Jesus to give me strength  and  light.  This  spiritual  experience  enabled  me  in  my  analysis  of  the  suffering  people.  I saw all religions merging into one reality in our struggle  to  change  the  oppressive  world  order.  Also I found more meaning in living  out my religious life in the context of the people with whom I was working.   7 �   In the history of SCN ministry the initiative that I took in Hunterganj was a  first  of  its  kind.  Initially  I  was  reluctant  to  share  about  my  work  with the  Sisters  in  the  community  at  large.  I  felt  that  they  would  not  fully  understand my radical involvement with the people.  At times I had felt that  I was all alone and even thought of leaving the community.  I talked to Sister  Teresa  Rose  about  it  before  I  approached  the  provincial.  Sister  Teresa  helped  me  to  change  my  decision.  Gradually  the  leadership  in  the  community  accepted  my  choice  of  ministry  and  began  to  send novices and  some  junior  Sisters  for  short  periods  of  exposure  programs.  Other  SCNs  Joyce  Kalapurayil  ​who  later  discontinued  and  Gracy  Thombrakudy  had  joined me for short periods.      Another  section  of  the  society  which  drew  my  attention  was  the  girls  who  were  left  behind  in homes to fend for themselves while the parents worked.  The  society  and  their  families  considered  their  existence  as  a  burden  and  parents  were  glad  to  get  rid  of  them  as  early  as  possible,  dead  or  alive.  Seeing  their  pathetic  condition  I  began  to  collect  these  children  and  adolescent  girls  and bring them to Chatra, often against the wishes of their  parents.  Thus  our  organization  became  the  first  in  Chatra  district  to  give  priority to the education of Bhuia girls.     An unexpected gift I got from God recently was in the person of Sister Anna  Joseph,  a  member  of  the  Society  of  St.  Joseph  of  Cluny  who  joined  us  in  June  2016.  She knew no Hindi as she had worked for twenty-two years in  North  Karnataka  and  Tamil  Nadu  with  various  groups.  This  was  her  first  exposure  to  life  in  North  India.  She  wanted  to  have  a  new  experience  of  living  with  a  mixed  group  of  both secular and religious.  Having Anna with  us is a blessing for our group.     After living and working in Chatra district for close to three decades, I see a  world  of  positive  change  in  the  women,  girl  children,  adolescents  and  the  Bhuia community, in general.  Systemic change has occurred in small ways,  thanks  to  the  women  who  played  a  major  role  in  their  development.  They  have  formed,  ​Mahila Mukti Sangharsh Samiti  an  organization  for  women’s  emancipation.     Living  in  the  villages  with  the  people  I  have  learned  the  meaning  of  my  commitment;  experienced  its  joys  and  sorrows  and  how  women  can  be  empowered.  When I joined the men at the cremation ground to pay my last  respects  to  our  slain  leader,  I  had  defied  the  local  custom  of  women  not  being  allowed  to  be  present  at  a  funeral  pyre.  I  also  experienced  what  it  means  to  be  detained  in  a  dingy  police lock up almost the whole night.  At  8 �another  time,  I  was  surrounded  by  over  thirty  Maoists  with  their  ammunitions in a remote forest village.  In all of the above I have answered  the call of Jesus to the best of my ability.      My attendance at various seminars on national and international levels has  helped  me  immensely  to  empower  myself to continue the good work that is  being accomplished among the impoverished and neglected people.    My  hope  for  the  future  is  that those of us who are working on the margins  be  fully  supported  by  our  fellow  religious  in  institutional  ministry  and  the  Church,  as  a  whole.  Since  they  have  the  means and contacts to influence  the  society  in  general  it  is  good  for  all  of  us  to  work  hand-in-hand to save  our people from oppression and exploitation.       Incidents that have led me closer to God    As a young Sister missioned in Bakhtiarpur, Sister Mary Frances sent a new  candidate  with  me  to  the  Block  Development  Office  (BDO)  to  find  out if he  needed any help with the flood relief work.  He said, “Yes,” and, as a team of  doctors  from  Patna Medical College Hospital was ready to get into the boat,  he  invited  us  to  join  them.  I  told  him  that  I  would  have  to  inform  my  superior  about  it.  He  assured  me  that  he  would  do  so.  My  next  problem  was that we had no food or clothing for an over-night stay.  The official told  us  not  to  worry  about  it  because  the  people  were  there  to  provide  us  with  whatever  we  needed.  We  went  with  them  and  were  able  to  return  to  Bakhtiarpur  only  after  five  days.  We  were  somewhat  frightened  when  we  came to know that the BDO had not informed Sister Mary Frances about us.  To our surprise, she welcomed us back happily.      In  the  midst  of  our  struggle  to acquire land for the poor in Hunterganj two  policemen came to our Ashram to arrest the activist leader.  We had already  helped  him  to  escape  from  the  scene.  After  about  half  an  hour,  fifteen  to  twenty  policemen  led  by  their  officer  in  charge  came  to the village.  I knew  that  they  would  come  and  I  was  wondering  how  I  would  answer  their  questions.  The officer told me that I was hiding a culprit.  In response I told  him  that  I  was  only  protecting  an  innocent  man.  I  know  it’s  your  duty  to  catch the culprit and mine is to save the innocent.  Humbly, I told him that I  was  only doing my ​dharma (duty) and if he found me guilty he could arrest  me.  The officer looked at me for a while, turned to the rest of the police and  ordered  them  to  retreat.  I  remembered  the  words  in the Bible, ​"I have put  My words in your mouth and have covered you with the shadow of My hand,  to establish the heavens, to found the earth, and to say to Zion, 'You are My  people.”​ ​(Is. 51.16).  9 �    The insights I have gained   Jesus has gifted all of us with life and He wants us to become perfect as the  heavenly God is perfect.  This process of becoming God-like is accomplished  by  little  steps  each  day.  I  carry  with  me  all  persons,  events  and  natural  forces in this becoming process.  My role is not to make anybody better or to  tell other people what they should be doing.  I need to keep my goal renewed  constantly like the breath I take.  I need not plan for my death just as I had  nothing  to  do  with  my  birth.  My  life  is  part  of  the  on-going  process  of  creation and renewal of life on this planet.     The  sudden  deaths  of  both  my  brother,  Chacko,  CMI and sister, Sunanda,  SCN, were very difficult for me to accept.  In the case of Sunanda it took me  two  years  to  overcome  my  sorrow.  My CMI religious Brother who had kept  good  health  all  along,  died  suddenly in 2015, at the age of 80.  ​He ​was the  one  who  saw  to  my  education,  helped  me  to  come  to  North  India  and who  always  accompanied  me  whenever  I  went  home.  To  this  day  I  feel  his  absence.       The biggest challenge I see at present in the community/church    Tension  between  the  institutional  works  versus  the  social  activists’  world view   Growing corruption in our country and the world, at large    Our inadequate planning in meeting the needs of the  exploited/marginalized  Greediness and consumerism of the people especially the well-to-do   How  to form the young especially the religious to become more aware  of the people at the periphery     Experiences of prayer that have helped me over the years   Routine  family  prayer,  daily  Mass  and  other  rituals  during  my  growing  up  years  were  a  great  source  of  grace  for  me.  While  living  in  community  I  enjoyed  group  prayer.  I  have  experienced  God  deep  within  me,  in  nature  and  its  beauty  and  in  the  struggles  and  suffering  of  people.  As  an  older  religious  I  have  begun  to  enjoy  contemplative  prayer,  experiencing  God  as  presence  in  the depth of my being.  Some of the most powerful moments of  prayer/God  experience  for  me  were  at  times  of  loneliness,  suffering  and  living among the exploited people.    Most significant events in the community   10 �I was trusted and given the privilege of working in a non-structured ministry  among  secular  people.  I  was  listened  to  by  the  community  whenever  I  raised issues at meetings and often decisions were made accordingly.  What makes me feel proud to be an SCN  The  community  has  provided  me  with  needed  opportunities  to  change  myself  into  a  wholesome  person  reaching  out  to  the  needy  at  all  times.  SCNs  have  enabled  me  to  follow  my  dream  to  live  like  Jesus  among  the  oppressed and dispossessed.     My dreams & hopes for the Congregation.  One of my dreams is that we have an intentional community living including  SCNs,  members  of  other  Congregations,  lay  people  and  others  who  have  similar  vision like ours and contribute to the building up of the God’s reign  in  our  world.  My hope for the future is that we  ​live a more disciplined and  balanced life which will lead us to contemplation in action.     My  religious  life  enables  me  to  live  my  life  fully  as  a  woman  with freedom,  dignity  and  caring  love  which  perhaps  I  would  not  have  had  out  in  the  world.  I  have  been  a  mother,  sister,  companion  and  mentor  to  countless  persons.  The  freedom  I  experienced  from  the  community  to  live  with  the  oppressed/marginalized has made me happy.      In  conclusion  I  would  like  to  share  my understanding of what my personal  call is.  When I am happy and enthusiastic about my ministry I know that I  am  following  God’s  call.  What seems impossible at times becomes possible  with God’s grace.  In the process of living this call I forget all the sufferings I  have endured and whatever I had to give up in life in order to become what  God  wants  me  to  be.  I  can  truly  say  that with God’s grace, the support of  the  SCN  community  and  the  goodwill  of  the  people  that  I  am  ministering  with, I am being liberated from the many shackles of life.  I wait for the day  when my joy shall be complete.    Joel Urumpil, SCN (Jyoti Behen)    Written on 23. 3. 2018   Edited on April 17, 2018  Consent given orally to publish the story on April 17, 2018     11 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Joel Urumpil, SCN (Self-Interview) Location The location of the interview India Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Joel Urumpil, SCN Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Urumpil, Joel, SCN; Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource SCN Archival Center Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived SCN Archival Center Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 4/17/2018 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for any type of publication of archival materials, including text, photographs, video, or audio must be secured from the Sisters of Charity of Nazareth Archival Center before publication. Contact archives staff for appropriate forms and contact information. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MMC-JoelUrumpil Sisters of Charity of Nazareth