11 10 108 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/21771b8c7a9ac82d48ad114119079323.JPG 53afb27966619e6a0b08b0a850a828a4 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/7dbcbb7ee033d1fd813c314a0a076e66.JPG bd5442d95aa27580f4db1fede5250d33 Physical Object An inanimate, three-dimensional object or substance. Note that digital representations of, or surrogates for, these objects should use Moving Image, Still Image, Text or one of the other types. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Silver pitcher Subject The topic of the resource Pitchers Silver pitcher Description An account of the resource In 1858, as Community foundress Mother Xavier Ross prepared to leave Nashville, TN., where her Community had first began, The people of Nashville, TN. gifted Mother Xavier with a silver pitcher engraved: “A token of esteem and gratitude, respectfully inscribed to the Sisters of Charity, by the citizens of Nashville, Dec. 4th, 1858.” The pitcher has become a treasured historical artifact of the early days in Nashville and the work the Sisters did there. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Unknown Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived N/A Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available N/A Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource ca. 1855 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Tennessee--Nashville Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource The material in this collection is made available by the Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth. To request reproductions or to inquire about permissions, contact SCL Archives at 913-758-6588, or tcrawford@scls.org. Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/836c1b6d32ab26439f9e4ffc925b8edc.JPG 6242454c8a8ac0581486866b8c97cb9d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Artists’ Palette and Brush used by William Lamprecht circa 1901 Subject The topic of the resource Subject Mural painters Mural painting and decoration--20th century. Convents--United States--History--20th century. Monasticism and religious orders for women -- Catholic Church -- History Catholic Church. Archdiocese of Cincinnati (Ohio) Sisters of Charity of Cincinnati Cincinnati (Ohio) Mount Saint Joseph (Ohio) Description An account of the resource Description For the eight months it took to execute the mural, William Lamprecht and his wife, Augusta, resided at Mount St. Joseph where he loved to take long walks to enjoy “God’s great Panorama.” A faith-filled man, the artist recognized his talent as a gift from God. He never began a project without preceding it with a novena of prayer and fasting. Each morning, he rose with the tower bell at 5 AM, attended Mass with the Sisters and received Holy Communion. When he began his painting each day, he left strict orders not to be disturbed. Lamprecht’s mural in the Motherhouse Immaculate Conception Chapel sanctuary dome, painted on a doubly curved surface like the inside of a bell, is of Mary Immaculate. Mary is depicted as the “woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars” (Rev. 12:1). The figure of Mary is 15 feet tall and the entire mural rises 65 feet above the wainscoting. Above the figure of Mary is God the Father and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove. The central figure is surrounded by angels, each representing a scriptural symbol associated with Mary’s role in redemption history. Below the figures of Gabriel and Michael, are angels carrying a crown, a lily branch, a psaltery, a palm of victory, the rod of Jesse, the Ark of the Covenant, a star, and a harp. The herald angel at the base carries a scroll: “In unbra manus suae protexit me” (In the shadow of His hand He hath protected me). When he completed his work, Mother Sebastian asked the artist how this mural compared to his other paintings. He replied thoughtfully, “It is my last and my best.” Shortly after completing the mural, Lamprecht’s health began to decline and, in 1904, he retired to his native country of Germany. He died March 19, 1922. Generations of Sisters of Charity, students at Mount St. Joseph Academy and the College of Mount St. Joseph, families, and guests have been awed and inspired by Lamprecht’s work as well as his devotion that shines through each brushstroke. A true blessing for many! Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Unknown Manufacturer A well-used brush and painter’s palette preserved more than one century ago are reminders of a significant chapter in the history of the Sisters of Charity of Cincinnati. In 1899, Mother Sebastian Shea traveled to New York City in search of a muralist to paint the half-dome above the altar in the Motherhouse’s Immaculate Conception Chapel. The German painter William Lamprecht accepted the commission, excited by the size and scope of the project. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of Cincinnati Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available N/A Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource ca. 1901 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource N/A Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Online access is provided for research purposes only. For rights, reproduction, and use requests or more information, please contact the Sisters of Charity of Cincinnati Archivist Relation A related resource N/A Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Equipment and tools; Art and decorative works Mural is 65 feet tall, width figure not included in inventory Language A language of the resource Latin Type The nature or genre of the resource Physical object; image Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context N/A Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Mount Saint Joseph (Ohio) Sisters of Charity of Cincinnati https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/ab3bfa6a795cf57b2f0a8943b8de3f09.jpg 78541ef1ff902668b4eff699fca44331 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/54afeeeb5cd4523e834d6d7cff11c649.pdf 01159b120c19b5777008a46ecb68cb32 PDF Text Text Interviewer: Interviewee: Date: Editor: Date edited: Sister Mary Ellen Gleason, SC Sister Mary Ellen Verdon, SC January 12, 1988 Sister Noreen Neary, SC October 23, 2020 Sister Mary Ellen Gleason: In the early 1960s, as a response to Pope John XXIII’s appeal for missionaries to the Third World countries, you volunteered to serve in our first mission in Bolivia. Sister Mary Ellen Verdon: That's right. Sister Mary Ellen Gleason: There were three other sisters: Sister Mary Frederick [Holbrow], Sister Anne James [Connolly] and Sister Grace Lavina [Reilly], who comprised the first group. Let's begin with you. How did you prepare yourself, educationally, to meet the needs of the people you were called to serve? Sister Mary Ellen Verdon: Well, I speak for my own self, but this really does apply to all of us. We really didn't know where Bolivia was. First we had to find a map and find where it was. Then it was a matter of finding out about what Bolivia was. What it meant. And I went to the library. That was the easiest way to get some idea of who was in Bolivia…what was in Bolivia. What was it all about? The next piece was that I did not speak Spanish. And I had a background in French and Latin, but I had no Spanish. However, I wasn't too sure of how to go about this and then I find out that none of us spoke Spanish and therefore we were told that arrangements were made for us to go to a language school in Lima, Peru. So, what we did, we got some tapes. We had some books, we even played Scrabble and this was Sister Mary Frederick, Lord have mercy on her, this was her great idea. We would play Scrabble in Spanish. It was torture for most of us. But, in fact, we played Scrabble every afternoon on the boat going down to Bolivia. And somewhere along the line, I found an egg timer. And Sister Mary Frederick said we had to play for ten minutes. So I used to turn the egg timer. But then we finally got to Peru only to find out that the language school was only for men. We couldn't go. This was 1963. And when we went on to Bolivia, we had…arrangements had been made for us to live with Spanish-speaking sisters while the house we were going to live in, the convent, was being fixed...being built. And when we got to Coroico, the sisters that we were to live with were petrified of us, didn't know what to make of us. We were gringos and they were very a pretty strict community. And it almost took a Papal Mandate that they eat with us, they recreate with us, they do everything with us. And one of them became our teacher. The Franciscans supplied the books and then we had class. And that went on for a couple of 1 �months. And little by little, we learned the language and I carried a dictionary, myself, for almost two years. It became a joke about me and my little dictionary. But it was the only way to learn the language. You had to be willing to make mistakes and the people laughed, then that was all right. But I would say, after two years, I felt very fluent and it didn't matter. I was able to...I was comfortable in English or in Spanish. But the preparation, to answer your beginning question, really was nothing. It was...nobody knew what to do. But we survived. Does that answer your question? Sister Mary Ellen Gleason: Almost. You had a background in nursing...and you had spent several years at the Hospital of St. Raphael [in New Haven, Connecticut] before you went to Bolivia. Now, was it possible for you to take time while you were at St. Raphael's to learn special techniques that perhaps only a doctor would do so that you could better serve the people in Bolivia? Sister Mary Ellen Verdon: You're very right. Sister Louise Anthony [Geronemo], Lord have mercy on her, was very, very supportive of my going to Bolivia. Arrangements were made for me to work in the emergency room. And I worked there for a couple of months. Dr. Mark Russell was the senior resident and he was just so enamored with my going to Bolivia. He taught me so many things. He taught me how to sew people. He taught me how to do in-depth examinations. He taught me many, many things which I don't even want to talk about on public taping, but it was three wonderful months. Wonderful months. And when I finished there, before I went to Bolivia, he gave me a machete. It was about two and a half feet long when he gave it to me. And when I left Bolivia, it was about six inches long. It got an awful lot of use in those years. Sister Mary Ellen Gleason: Am I right in thinking that you even had some experience in learning procedures in dentistry, like how to extract teeth? Or is that something you taught yourself? Sister Mary Ellen Verdon: No, no, no…what happened was that when we went to Bolivia, there was a dentist from [Saint Joseph’s Hospital in Paterson, New Jersey]. He volunteered to come down for two weeks. He came in our first year there and he brought all his own equipment. And, at that time, I was very young and I…and the world was mine and I could do everything, so he spent a great deal of time and…he worked all day long. He taught me how to pull teeth and in the evening, he'd come down and he'd have classes and he'd…which tooth got which instrument and all this stuff and he left his complete set of instruments…taught me how to give the anesthesia…taught me all these other things…and in the two weeks that he was there, he pulled over 700 teeth. And in the time that I was there, I pulled a couple of thousand teeth. 2 �Sister Mary Ellen Gleason: What about the delivering of babies. Did you ever do that in Bolivia? Sister Mary Ellen Verdon: Yes, I did deliver babies, but not for long because Sister Malwina Anne [Sister Evelyn Lebiedz] came and she's a midwife. And that's her specialty and she did wonderful things with setting up classes and doing that kind of stuff. Sister Mary Ellen Gleason: What about the other three sisters? Do you know if they did anything in particular to get ready to go to Bolivia other than maybe trying to do something about learning Spanish? Sister Mary Ellen Verdon: Well, we all were in the same boat where Spanish was concerned. Sister Mary Frederick may have had a couple of more words than the rest of us, but none of us spoke Spanish. I would think Mary Frederick and Anne James most likely gathered catechetical things to use. Sister Grace, I know, made some arrangements with Saint Joseph's [Hospital] to supply us with stuff…because that's where she was missioned. But beyond that, no. Not that I know of. It was getting our things ready. It was trying to learn about the country. And there really wasn't that much time. Sister Mary Ellen Gleason: About how long after you were accepted to go to Bolivia did you actually leave? Sister Mary Ellen Verdon: I would say it could be no more than maybe four months. Sister Mary Ellen Gleason: So that was really a very short time... Sister Mary Ellen Gleason: Before we conclude our conversation today, is there anything else you would like to say about your eleven years’ experience in Bolivia? Sister Mary Ellen Verdon: Well, as you well know, I can go on for hours and hours and hours, but in an attempt to keep it to the theme of why we're here today, the educational opportunities of the Sisters to prepare them for their work, I don't think it's fair to present the Bolivian experience relative to education without introducing later changes. Because, as was said in the beginning, I went there in 1963, when women couldn't even go to the language school. By 1965, two years later, that was all changed. Maryknoll had a language school in Cochabamba [Bolivia]. There was language school with Monsignor lllich in Cuernavaca [Mexico], and this was not just language, this was society. This was teachings about the society, both spiritually, physically, economically, anyway you want to talk about it. And these all happened starting about 1965 where men and women went to language school. But also other changes happened then. From a sense of helping us be able to help people, was the Vatican Council. And granted, in 3 �Latin America, we didn't have visions of communities like you have in this country, but there were still some areas that Vatican II just broke down the walls completely. And this ability to learn from each other, to share, to grow…one of the Franciscans had a catechetical group, and he needed ideas of how to do this or that, we found ways to communicate with other people that were doing this. Like, then we had diocesan meetings. One meeting three/four days and maybe one day was a retreat day, but the other days…what are you doing about this, how could we do it better? And if somebody was really good, they presented, they talked, and they spoke. So, as time went by very rapidly, things changed very rapidly. I just wanted to get that piece in. Sister Mary Ellen Gleason: Thank you very much. 4 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Saint Elizabeth, Convent Station Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Verdon, Sister Mary Ellen, S.C. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Gleason, Sister Mary Ellen Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sister Mary Ellen Verdon, S.C. Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Verdon, Sister Mary Ellen, S.C.; Caranavi, Bolivia; Hospital of Saint Raphael, New Haven, CT; missioner; nurse; Saint Joseph Hospital, Paterson, NJ Description An account of the resource Description of Sister's preparation to become a nurse/missioner in Bolivia Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Verdon, Sister Mary Ellen, S.C.; Gleason, Sister Mary Ellen, S.C. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of Saint Elizabeth Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource January 12, 1998 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Neary, Sister Noreen, S.C. (Editor) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Sisters of Charity of Saint Elizabeth Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Application/pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Sister Mary Ellen Verdon, S.C. describes her preparation to become a nurse/missioner in Bolivia Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant January 12, 1998 foreign mission Healthcare Sisters of Charity of Saint Elizabeth https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/a2f9521faeae8d6edff5002daa0d4e59.jpg 633d62d78b9e85d0940bc24f5c524bdc https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/80c884d8321070fd4b18ac46e9dd10b4.mp3 bcf879a0b2324744218cac952bb522a1 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/f7e44eb863425cb0825d2b723f458067.pdf d886fb5d81b32f8c938a8c7396b3ed7b PDF Text Text SISTER CYRILLA VERHALEN [Excerpt] BIOGRAPHY INTERVIEW BY SISTER JOSEPHINE TARQUINI JANUARY 21, 1988 Sr. Cyrilla: Today is the very day that I left the Seminary to go out to San Francisco. Sr. Josephine: And when was that Sister? Sr. Cyrilla: It was the Feast of St. Agnes, and it was during that dreadful year when everybody was having the flu [The 1918 Spanish Flu Pandemic]. Sr. Josephine: 1918? Sr. Cyrilla: 1918. And it was the funeral day of that dear Sister who came from California [possibly Sister Agnes McEleney]. She was the biggest, the strongest, the healthiest looking Sister, and from the very beginning the doctor said, “No earthly power can save her.” So she died, and she was being buried on her name day but in the general, big cemetery [Calvary Cemetery], because they didn't have any cemetery yet at the Marillac. Sr. Josephine: Sister, you are not exactly sweet sixteen. When were you born? Sr. Cyrilla: I was born in 1894. Sr. Josephine: And what was your birthday? Sr. Cyrilla: The third of August. Sr. Josephine: The third of August 1894. When that date comes around, you'll be how old then? Sr. Cyrilla: I'll be 94 years old. Sr. Josephine: Ninety-four. Isn’t that wonderful. [Jump in excerpt of recording] Sr. Josephine: You entered at the Marillac, Sister? Sr. Cyrilla: Yes. Sr. Josephine: Who was the Visitatrix then? [Sister] Eugenia Fealy? Sr. Cyrilla: That was her. 1 �Sr. Josephine: And who was your Directress? Sr. Cyrilla: I have to think of her name. She was the first Directress of the whole Province. Sr. Josephine: Was that [Sister] Madeleine Morris? Sr. Cyrilla: She had a brother who was a bishop. Sr. Josephine: That was Sr. Madeleine Morris, and then she went over to France and was a Secretary [Sr. Madeleine became General Secretary for the English-speaking provinces in 1945]. Sr. Cyrilla: She really knew French so well that she could translate it right through and just read French. Sr. Josephine: What did you think of the Seminary? Sr. Cyrilla: Sister, I was too sick to think of anything. Do you know what I had when I was three weeks right after Thanksgiving while I was at St. Anne's [Asylum] a postulant? I got sick and was having a high fever, and it lasted for three weeks, and the doctors didn't know what was-- What is it? What’s the matter? What am I getting? And jaundice! Yellow jaundice. And Sister, imagine getting out of bed of yellow jaundice and going to the Seminary and then handfuls of chocolate. [Portion redacted from transcript] Sr. Josephine: Well, then you got the habit Sr. Cyrilla: And we were stuck there with the flu, the terrible flu, and they kept us there. This is a funny thing Sister. We were kept over so that we wouldn't get the flu. Sr. Josephine: And, of course, you got it? Sr. Cyrilla: And you know how we got it? The Sister sacristan, not knowing how dangerous it was, went to visit the man that scrubbed the floors. Had the flu. She brought it home, and all these young, new Sisters who had received the habit were helping in the chapel, and we all got it. On Christmas Day, one after the other got sick, and so the doctor said, “Sister, take the temperature of all of them.” I was a goner, because I knew I had a terrible night. I didn’t want to go to bed on Christmas. Sr. Josephine: When you got over the flu, then you went out on mission, where did you go? Sr. Cyrilla: To Sister Caroline. 2 �Sr. Josephine: In San Francisco. Sr. Cyrilla: St. Vincent's School or the St. Patrick's Parish [Her first mission was St. Vincent’s High School]. Sr. Josephine: And how long were you there? Sr. Cyrilla: I was there until 1932 I think it was. 3 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Daughters of Charity, Province of St. Louise Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Tarquini, Sister Josephine, D.C. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Verhalen, Sister Cyrilla, D.C. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Cassette Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:04:31 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Verhalen, Sr. Cyrilla, D.C. Oral History (Excerpt) Subject The topic of the resource Verhalen, Sr. Cyrilla, D.C.; Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul; Influenza Epidemic, 1918-1919 Description An account of the resource Sister Cyrilla Verhalen discusses her time in the Seminary of the Daughters of Charity and her first mission in Perryville, Missouri during the outbreak of the Spanish flu in 1918 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Verhalen, Sr. Cyrilla, D.C.; Tarquini, Sr. Josephine, D.C. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Daughters of Charity Archives, Province of St. Louise, Emmitsburg, MD Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1/21/1988 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Keefer, Scott (Editor) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Permission for any type of publication of archival materials, including text, photographs, video, or audio must be secured from the Daughters of Charity Communications Director before publication.ÿ Contact archvies staff for appropriate forms and contact information Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio/mp3; Application/pdf Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Verhalen, Sister Cyrilla Oral History Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant 1918 Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul Healthcare Religious Formation https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/56462d58f3cb6414f26b43284b865070.jpg 90bd4ab4b82f420ecb073c1c171424a3 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/62a67b748c377578714b73ce51e1af18.mp3 685683275a5f173a1645d1fa7db62aea https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/f623b8e4bc51bcacfc9e7f0c65f19e68.pdf b7f3b8a227a50aac6179c54b22c5c97c PDF Text Text Interviewer: Interviewee: Date: Editor: Date edited: Sister Mary Teresa Orbegozo, SC and Sister Rosanne Caiazzo, SC Sister Agnes Socorro Ward, SC January 1980 Sister Noreen Neary, SC November 10, 2020 Sr. Agnes Socorro: We had, of course, orphanages. We had, as I recall it, and I may not have the exact number, we had at least three orphanages and they were big orphanages. You don't remember them, either, I don't think. Sr. Rosanne: I just remember seeing [Saint Mary Orphanage in Newark, NJ]. It was still open when I entered. Sr. Agnes Socorro: Yeah. That's still open. Sr. Rosanne: [Saint Joseph’s Orphanage in Totowa, NJ], too. Sr. Agnes Socorro: And, of course. Then another thing we did, I was young when I came and I went to [Holy Cross School in Harrison, NJ]. Do you know where Harrison is? Sr. Rosanne: Yes, Sister. Sr. Agnes Socorro: There was an old sister there. She was then fifty years in the community. She taught the first grade. And one of her duties was that she would go around and visit the sick and the poor, and lay out the dead. It scared [me] to death laying out the dead. I had to go with her. That was my assignment. The Sister Servant told you, "Do this, that or whatever." Sr. Agnes Socorro: And then, I remember in Harrison going upstairs, that you'd think you'd never get to the top. They were so shaky. And she would go in. And of course, she was there so long, she knew them all. And the people knew her and she would ask, as I used to say, she asked them everything. How much money their husband was making? If he wasn't, why wasn't he working? They took it from her. She was an old sister and they knew she was interested. And then, in Harrison at the time, there was Saint Vincent de Paul. Have you read about Saint Vincent de Paul? Sr. Rosanne: Yes, Sister. �Sr. Agnes Socorro: He had Ladies of Charity. Father Fitzpatrick, who was then in Harrison, founded a group of women, which you'd call the Vincentians. They could work and make money for the poor, but they couldn't give out the money. That was up to the sisters. So she would decide, in a way, how much money these would get and all of that. In Harrison, we collected [unintelligible]. Then if a child that anybody would [unintelligible] first communion class would [unintelligible]. Such a one cannot get a first communion dress, we would see that she got it. And things like that. Now that was working with the poor, well I think, in a way, more intimately than you do today. And I remember getting into a scrap when somebody said we did nothing for the poor in those days. Go without dessert, we'd take it over to some poor kid that we knew didn't have any food, because there was no such thing as lunches in the schools. Sr. Mary Teresa: When did you enter the community, Sister? Sr. Agnes Socorro: What? Sr. Mary Teresa: When did you enter? Sr. Agnes Socorro: 1912. Sr. Mary Teresa: 1912. Sr. Agnes Socorro: So, life was different. I mean, in Saint Vincent, you read about the sisters going around with a pot of soup. We didn't go around with a pot of soup, but we went around in the same way and promised them things, like promised them food. And I remember there was one shoe store that if they were [unintelligible] the poor, for lack of a better word, they could go to that shoe store, with a pass from sister, and get shoes. Things are done differently today. But it was done in those days. There's no doubt about that. Sr. Rosanne: You entered at a time when there were a couple of major worldwide issues at hand like World War I. Sr. Agnes Socorro: World War I started at 1914. Sr. Rosanne: �Right. And women's suffrage. Sr. Agnes Socorro: No, there was no such thing as women's suffrage. They were fighting for it. Sr. Rosanne: Fighting for it, right. Were the sisters at all aware of what was happening? Sr. Agnes Socorro: Oh, they were aware. Sr. Rosanne: Yeah. Sr. Agnes Socorro: But like that, for instance, they were very much aware of World War I. They did a great deal of knitting and everything like that, all kinds of work. They could not go out as you might go today. If you're interested in ERA, you'd go around and picket or something. We couldn't do that, of course. Life was different. We were not exactly cloistered. But no woman…And most women didn’t, I'll put it that way. Some women did it, but most women didn't. And people lived more in their homes and life was altogether different. This is, of course, what goes on in my class, raking up fashions and all of that. But then in the Civil War, you see, the Sisters of Emmitsburg and some few of our sisters did go out and nurse in the battlefields. But in World War I you didn't do it. I think, I suppose, there was more ways of getting it done, but the need was not as great. Now, however, we had the flu in 1918. You've heard of the flu. Sr. Rosanne: Yes. Sr. Agnes Socorro: That flu. And some of the sisters from here went to [All Souls Hospital in Morristown, NJ] to help out. Another sister and myself were sent from Harrison to [Saint Elizabeth’s Hospital in Elizabeth, NJ] to help out. We did things like that. But there was not so much going out of the community as there had been in the Civil War. That was a different setup. Know what I mean? Sr. Rosanne: Mm-hmm Yeah. The Congregation then did impress upon you always the Vincentian spirit. Sr. Agnes Socorro: �Oh, yes. You were there for the poor. In fact, when I was missioned in the [Academy of Saint Elizabeth] here, I was in the old generation. You don't remember that, either, but you've heard of us. I was there. And then I was brought up to the Academy and I…Oh, I was in a terrible state. I didn't come to work for the rich, I came to work for the poor. And here I was. No, you were working for the poor. It was impressed on you that you did without, because if this mission that you were on could succeed in saving some money, it was turned right into the Motherhouse for the poor. That's in the old Rule. Hope they have some of those old Rules around some place. Because I mean, this is going to come up – we’re working on the history of the community. Sr. Agnes Socorro: And life was different. Now, things are different in you might go out now and get a job and turn your salary in to the community, for the work of the community. But in going out there, you have to live accordingly and dress accordingly. You don't go without the way the others say. If a Sister gave music lessons and every mission had a Sister giving music lessons…You had them in [Waterbury, CT] too, maybe not in your day, but…You had one lovely saintly woman there. But anyway, that money was not used for that local community. That was sent right to the Motherhouse. So, you see this is all part of life, as we knew it. It's different today. It has to be. Life has changed every place. Sr. Agnes Socorro: I would not say that women were involved in women's rights as they could be today, because of our life. You might be interested, you might want it and all of that, but our life was such. You don't remember when since you could go home. When I first came to the community, if you went home, you had to be back. You couldn't eat at home. But this was not just our community. This was every community. You couldn't eat at home. No more than you could sleep at home, of course. If then you had to be back in the convent at a certain time in the evening, and that did not change, that time in the evening until about 15 years ago. You remember Sister [unintelligible]. When she was a novice she fought for that. Sisters have a longer time in the evening so they could get to know their fathers. They never saw their fathers. They had to be back so soon. So you see, I suppose some of these things were things that were brought from European communities where life was different. And you see, I know. I have visited. There's one French community in Ireland. They bought a big, old estate and they care for epileptic children. They can never go home, or they couldn't when I was there. This was maybe 10 years ago. But their whole family could come and stay right in the convent, which was... You see? But we had no way of putting up a whole family in the convent. We didn't have these big estates. I don't what other social issue besides women's rights was...Sister Mary Cecilia would tell you all the things she knitted, both in World War I and World War II. Sr. Rosanne: What about Mother Xavier, Sister? Sr. Agnes Socorro: �Well, I didn't know her that well. She was an old, old sister when I came. Very short and very frail looking. And her office was where that new council room is, there in the front of the building. Her bedroom was where Sister Mary Canavan's office now is. You know that room. She slept there with Sister Mary Virginia [Burke]. They did not allow her to sleep alone because then she was very old. She was very, very rigid. There's no doubt about that. And I suppose in her way, it was a carry-over from the other communities. You know what I mean? Sr. Agnes Socorro: She did not see the Irish communities going home and things like that. So she never went home herself. In fact, Sister Agnes Paula [Conefrey] used to tell the story that she was going home [to Ireland] about 1908 and Sister Mary Madeleine [Bull] was with her. And they were out in New York harbor on the boat. And Sister Mary Madeleine was down in the stateroom saying her rosary. And Sister said to her, "Will you come up? I want to see the skyline of New York. I’ll never see it again at night." "No, I won't," she said. "Oh, please, do! I’ll say the Rosary all the way across the Atlantic if you come up. Come on." "No," she said. "I won't. I will stay here until we start because we might get sent for to come back." But the first Assistant Mother, Sister Mary Catherine [Nevin], was extremely kind. And I think she was kind of a buffer. You know what I mean? She took care of the kindness part of it, so that the sisters did not feel the rigidness that Mother had. And the next Assistant Mother, [Mother Mary Cecilia Casey], who was later the second Mother, Mother Cecilia was extremely kind. But Mother Xavier used to sit in the back of the chapel in the corner there by the twelfth station. I suppose they put her in there to get her out of the drafts. You see, that chapel was barely finished when I entered. They put her there in the corner and she sat there. She had her little prie dieu there. But she was at Mass each and every morning. It was six o’clock in those days. I remember we were… [Sister Rose Vincentia Bradley] who entered with me…there were five of us, seven of us came from Ireland together. [Sister Mary Alphonsine Coffey] was one of them and Sister Rose Vincentia. They’re both at [Saint Anne Villa] Sister Rose Vincentia and myself, Mother Xavier considered too young to enter. We were 14. She told Sister Virginia Clare and [Sister Francis Xavier Edgeworth] that we would go to [Saint Vincent Academy in Newark, NJ]. And she would see us later on. The others entered. But she sent for us eventually, sometime during the fall, and we came up and there was an old Sister. And I often wish I knew her name, just for the sake of knowing it. She met us up in the hall and she said, "Now, when you go in, Mother Xavier will say to you, ‘Isn’t this place more beautiful than Ireland?’ And be sure to say, ‘Yes.’" Now, there was a lawyer here last week who said she was a shrewd woman. She came here, as you know from the history, with five dollars. She had bought that place from Seton Hall and they didn't give it to her. She bought it for plenty, it cost her plenty. But bit by bit she bought up all this bits of land. And she wanted them. And she had her reasons for wanting. There's one now that they want to sell that opens onto Columbia Road because she felt it would be for the good of the community if we had an opening on Columbia Road. Sr. Agnes Socorro: You'll enjoy this. This lawyer came up and I had to speak to him and he was saying… He said to me, "Well, when you were novices and you went down there in the farm and so on, could you �see the cars on Columbia Road?" I said, "The cars?" He said, "Yes, the automobiles." I said, but there weren't any automobiles in 1920. So, life was slower. I don't know how much formal education she had. But I believe I once asked. But she had an Irish education. And I'm not saying this because I'm Irish. It was a very superior kind of education. They had more of a respect for education than the other people of the world because they couldn't have it. What we can't have, we want. And I think that she could use that education to further the work of this community. She built this house and there was no money. It's a good built building. It's still standing after over 100 years. I look at the trouble they're having with some of these other buildings. So she was, as he said, she was a shrewd business woman. And one wonders where she got that because she did not have any training in this life. They said before she entered [Mount Saint Vincent in New York], she made her living by sewing. So where did she get this? She said it was God's work, all right. Sr. Rosanne: Her value for education too, I think. Sr. Agnes Socorro: Oh, yes. Sr. Rosanne: You pointed out, in the beginning of the [College of Saint Elizabeth]. Sr. Agnes Socorro: Yeah, she allowed them to begin the college. And there were many people in the community against it. They didn't want it started. They thought it shouldn't be done at all. They tried to talk her out of it. A certain faction in the community. But she insisted. She didn't do it quickly, either, if you notice. She took her good time to think it out. And then she started it. And she educated the sisters. Even in those days when, as I say, you couldn't go home and you couldn't eat at home, things like that. What was her name?… [Sister Helen Angela Dorety] Yeah, it was a long time ago. But she sent her out to the University of Chicago for her biology. And they say nobody ever was anyone like Helen Angela with the education she got in biology. She was the one who founded that whole department. I'm not saying that we haven't had good ones since, but this is Mother Xavier's choice. [Sister Marie Jose Byrne] was allowed to go to Columbia for Latin, so that she was far-seeing. It wasn't just the moment she was looking at. And while we entered and you were... In my day, now this had changed in various times, we were postulants three months. We were novices a year, and then we were sent out. We didn't have that much education, you know. But on every mission you were on there was an older sister would take you in the afternoon for [teaching] methods. And you would go out on Saturdays to class. And you came up here every summer to get [state teacher’s certification]. So she foresaw all these things and knew they were needed. [unintelligible] You wonder, as I say, how she did it and why she did it. And she was very wise in her own way and all of that. So I would say that she had a great vision for the Congregation. There's no doubt about that, in every way. And in after years that they closed, for instance, the orphanages; that's one of my big disputes, that we closed the orphanages. I'd rather have a child in an orphanage than in a foster �home. The way they abuse them in foster homes. Of course, this is my opinion, of course. And look at the cost of [unintelligible] Saint Joseph's Hospital [in Paterson, NJ] like it is today. Sr. Agnes Socorro: I remember Saint Joseph's Hospital when it was a little bit of a frame house. And she encouraged them to build the [House of Divine Providence and Home for Incurables in Ridgewood, NJ] that was supposed to be for the dying and the incurables. Now it has turned into a home for the aged. Because if you have it as a home for the dying, it would require a number of nurses and all that. But she founded that. Look at the land she bought up there. And she built that. And I don't know if it’s in Sister Mary Agnes's book [The New Jersey Sisters of Charity by Sister Mary Agnes Sharkey, S.C.] or not. I must look it up some time. Have you ever been in the present home that's up there? Sr. Rosanne: Mount Saint Andrew's? Sr. Agnes Socorro: Yes. Sr. Rosanne: Yes, many times. Sr. Agnes Socorro: Well, the old home was across the street that burnt down while this one was in the state of building. But right down at the foot of the new one, you know what I mean by the new one, the one that's there now, there was a cottage which she bought. In those days, there was a great amount of [tuberculosis] in this community, as there was every place. And of course we lived so close, living in the dormitories, and people got it. And there was in Philadelphia a Doctor Walsh who was very, very famous for his TB treatments. And she would send the sisters to him and he had a sanitarium in White Haven in the Poconos. So she decided that she was going to buy this bit of land and this cottage that was up for sale in Ridgewood. And, she did. And when I went up there, I'd say, roughly speaking about 1960, I used to walk there with a sister. She was the only child. Her parents had a farm up there. I must go back to Bergen County sometime because all I remember about Bergen County is walking through fields and fields and fields and never seeing a person. I would have to go home with her in the morning. She couldn't go home herself. And she would work with them all day. And I would sit in the house. And they were very, very good to me. There was a place that I could lie down. I was only a kid. I wasn’t interested in lying down. And I'd have a book or something. But she bought this place and there was the famous bluegrass of Kentucky. He had been a horseman. He had the bluegrass in the yard. At that time, that was roughly speaking, 1918, there must've been five or six sisters there. They took care of themselves. They even wrote their own death notices. I know. Think of that. �They didn't put the date in, but on the old death notice her name had to be filled in and where you died. They even did that. Oh, and they were talking the other day about some [Sister Rose Bernard Brennan] who’d just come to [Saint Anne Villa] last week. I said, the first one [Sister Rose Bernard Ryan] was the most beautiful person I ever saw. She was beautiful. [unintelligible]. [Mother Xavier’s] plan was to have our own sanitarium up there. In the old Villa [at Convent Station], on that porch that faces the cemetery, notice on the second floor, there's a screened-in porch. For a while [Mother Xavier] had TB sisters there, sleeping all together in the one porch and all of that. She saw that as a need. So, you see, as time went on, there was no further need because they felt TB was conquered, you know. We got rid of the place in Ridgewood. But she saw to things like that. Sr. Rosanne: See that whole area there is Paramus, which is a fairly new community, where Mount Saint Andrew is. It was Ridgewood. Sr. Agnes Socorro: It was Ridgewood, at that time, yes. Sr. Rosanne: So I didn't realize that she had acquired that area up there. I mean, it was during her time. Sr. Agnes Socorro: It was during her time she acquired that. And, you see, the place I stayed in was the old house. And they were old, old people there. They went there... I suppose something like the Little Sisters of the Poor today, you went there and that was it. You died there. And there were people there, wonderful sisters, who just lived for their work. The thing is that this is a busy day because of the college coming back. They have to come into this house and greet the girls. Sr. Rosanne: Oh. I see. That's right. The girls are [unintelligible]. Sister Mary Teresa, do you have any other questions? Sr. Mary Teresa: Well, I think this is the main thing I wanted to ask. Sr. Agnes Socorro: Mother Cecilia was a big woman, as big as [Sister Mary Carita Pendergast]. Dark. An Irish beauty. And, of course, we had the old cap. And in those days the Mother went out in the morning after Mass. The Mother went out of the chapel first, followed by the Assistant Mother, followed by every officer. And we were new in �the transept there, you know. The novices sat in the transept and we said [Sister Mary Cecilia Casey] was Mother Xavier's guardian angel. I never called her anything else Sr. Rosanne: It was interesting, when you mentioned Sister Mary Catherine [Nevin] as being kind. Because when I entered Sister Mary Catherine… Sr. Agnes Socorro: Oh, not this Sister Mary Catherine. Sr. Rosanne: No, I know that. She was also the Assistant Mother when I knew her. Sr. Agnes Socorro: Mary Catherine? Sr. Rosanne: [Sister Catherine Mary McHale] from Boston. But that's who I think when you talk about the [unintelligible] for the sisters. Sr. Agnes Socorro: She was a very kind woman. Sr. Rosanne: Yeah. Sr. Agnes Socorro: But as I said, life was different. And to me, I'm old. They should know that. The changes don't get me down. The same things get me down that would get me down sixty years ago, people are not doing the right thing. But the changes don't get me down. If you're doing the right thing, all right, you've changed. We never changed. That's life. And there were a great many changes in the community. And I think we have to realize that in their day, they were doing more, I think in a way, than we do today in a different way. They couldn't go out the doors. They had to do it from the inside out. For instance, Sunday, you had Sunday school classes in the morning. You counted the money in the afternoon, the parish money. You had then maybe a couple of days a week, you'd have to go to someplace three or four miles away to teach Sunday school. And it was not an easy life. I survived, so it couldn’t have been too… But I mean, you have to realize that you're not comparing. I don't like comparing and saying we're doing more today than then, or they did more then. No, I don't think you should compare. I think you should know it, as we lived it. Sr. Rosanne: So true. �Sr. Agnes Socorro: But then now there's some people, and Sister Carita agreed with me on this, the last meeting we had, some people who say that Mary Agnes's book is inaccurate. Sister Carita agreed with me that it is not inaccurate. There are misprints. She said, "I think she was inaccurate in this way." A man's name, whether it was John or James, meant nothing to her. She would quickly write down Mr. John and it might've been Mr. James. But the main things are right, because I have read it twice lately. There are a few dates and I think they're misprints. For instance, somebody posted a picture. The old Nazareth [novitiate] that I entered, that it was destroyed in 1909. And I said to [Sister Hildegarde Marie Mahoney], who happened to be standing there at the same time, I said, it couldn't have been. I lived in it. The old Nazareth was... Remember where the men's house was? It was on that spot. It was an old frame house that had been the first boys' house [Saint Joseph’s School]. And this is another thing [unintelligible]. [Mother Xavier] sent Sister Mary Paula to Europe to study painting and art. This was roughly speaking, 1909 or 1910. And the boys said to me, maybe this isn't a nice word. I call her shrewd. [Mother Xavier] sent her to Europe. I'm not sure of the date. Was either 1909 or 1910. It was before I entered. All right. She sent with her Sister Mary Julia [Donovan]. Mary Julia had been in another community. She entered a Black community in Baltimore. But that makes no difference. Speaker 3: Was she a Black sister? Sr. Agnes Socorro: No, no. But there were a few other whites entered at the time, but she thought this would be a wonderful sacrifice, you see. She was from Beverly Farms [Massachusetts], outside of Salem. And the Donovans were fairly comfortable. She has a nephew in the Jesuits. He was implicated in this seismograph business and all of that. But anyway, she sent Sister Mary Julia with her to make her study the novitiates in Europe. And one of the things that we know of, she came back and she said that in Europe, and I'm telling the story badly, but before this, the novitiate was in this building. When they built convent wing, we've been sure where that is, the novitiate had a big room, like a big community room, was on the first floor over there. And the novices slept up through the house and corners, wherever. But Sister Mary Julia found out that in Europe, the novitiate was on the motherhouse grounds, but in a separate building. And that's what it should be. Therefore, almost immediately, the boys’ house, the new boys’ house, which is now that school for... You know, the one I mean… was built. And the reason that was built. There's a sister, [Sister Mary Casimir Reynolds]. You wouldn't know her because she was in Salem for years. She was a saint out of heaven. She was one of the tobacco Reynolds. So when her father died, she got quite a legacy. So it was used to build the new boys’ house. My generation calls that the new boys’ house. So the boys were out. She took the boys all together out of the old boys’ house, moved them over there. The old boys’ house was turned into a novitiate. And Sister Mary Julia was made the mistress. So that that was another thing that... Sister Mary Ellen Gleason said something to me, "Were you taught about the history of the community by your mistress?" I said, “Well, I didn't have a mistress in the early days.” Because Sister Mary Julia was one of these who had to be sent away when she got TB. So that she was up in White Haven and there were a couple of women brought in to be Mistress of Novices and they �could not see it because we had to come up, all kinds of weather, to do the charges, to wait on table. And waiting on table meant wait for a six o’clock supper, as well. And we’d go down in the evenings and there was an old fellow around then, who would have an old sled and he'd give us a ride on that. It was a big sled with a horse. But they didn't think that this was wise. So that was when she built [Nazareth novitiate] that was torn down [in 1978]. She built that because that way we would be in keeping with what they were doing in Europe. It would be a separate building on the motherhouse grounds. And that was what they found they had to do when they opened Harper's. Harper's is the present novitiate. You see, of course I blame it on my family. My grandfather lived with us. And if my grandfather was talking, we had to keep quiet. He was my mother's father, but my father would be very insistent that we listen to what he said. So then when I came to the community, that was ingrained in me. And I listened to the older sisters. So some of these things I've gotten from the older sisters. We've had a great many wakes at Convent. And [Sister Mary Rosalita Hyland]. Do you remember Sister Rosalita? She was a music teacher, beautiful woman. Every wake she was in the corner, and I was Circle Angel, so I could be... The Circle Angel was the Sister of Charity to the Academy girls, supposed not to teach. I'd be free during the day, and I’d go in and [unintelligible] and sit there at the wakes. And she would tell me more, things like that. So that some of these things are hearsay to me. So, for instance, she told, me, you don't remember our old dining room was where the sculleries are now. See, they built the new one [unintelligible] the 100th anniversary [unintelligible]. And that dining room... I call them the music rooms because when I entered all of these other rooms were music rooms and they were here. Then there was a passageway. And then there was the dining room. What Sister Rosalita told me that, before the chapel was built, there was no corridor there. These sisters slept in these bedrooms, [Sister Mary Honora Foy] and some people that were wonderful women. They slept in these bedrooms right off the dining room. The kitchen was in the basement. And some of the older Irish sisters would tell us the way they had to work when they came. I'm not saying the others didn't now, but they were speaking for themselves, the way they had to work in the kitchen and whatnot. And when I entered, there were all sisters in the kitchen. We were saying that only the other night. Again, how old the sister... The Sister Rose Bernard who has come to the Villa now had charge. She was in the novitiate with [Mother Josephine Marie O’Brien]. She said she had charge of the dairy down here in the kitchen. And I said, “Do people remember Sister Honora?” She was a wonderful woman, she had charge of the kitchen. These people had no education. But when we were in the old Juniorate, if I asked [Sister Mary Stephanie Bird], who was in charge of the kitchen, for a leg of lamb, she’d say, well now, I'll give you this size and this will feed so many people. Now I’ll bet you the man that's getting a big salary down there couldn't tell you that. These people had had no education. So that God took care of His own. That's the only way you can account for it. Sr. Mary Teresa: That's beautiful, Sister. That's beautiful. Sr. Agnes Socorro: �But as I say now, don't start out to compare. We were not better than. Maybe individually, some of them were better than, because I have lived with saints. I've lived with real saints in this community. But it's just individuals that were better. Sr. Mary Teresa: Yes. Thank you, Sister, for the time you gave us. We wanted to take some pictures, somewhere there. Sr. Agnes Socorro: You don't want a picture of me. That wasn't on, was it? Sr. Mary Teresa: Yeah. Sr. Agnes Socorro: Oh, my goodness. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Saint Elizabeth, Convent Station Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ward, Sister Agnes Socorro, S.C. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Orbegozo, Sister Mary Teresa , S.C.; Caiazzo, Sister Rosanne , S.C. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data cassette tape Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 0:37:11 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sister Agnes Socorro Ward, S.C. Oral History Subject The topic of the resource Ward, Sister Agnes Socorro, S.C.; Mother M. Xavier Mehegan; Holy Cross School, Harrison, NJ; Convent Station, NJ; tuberculosis; Ireland Description An account of the resource Description of Sister's early years in Harrison and at Convent Station; stories of Mother M. Xavier Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ward, Sister Agnes Socorro, S.C.; Orbegozo, Sister Mary Teresa , S.C.; Caiazzo, Sister Rosanne , S.C. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of Saint Elizabeth Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource January 1980 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Neary, Sister Noreen, S.C. (Editor) Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Sisters of Charity of Saint Elizabeth Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Audio/mp3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Sister Agnes Socorro Ward remembers her early years as a Sister of Charity and recalls stories of Mother M. Xavier Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant January 1980 Education Sisters of Charity of Saint Elizabeth https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/c451095b12c34c0d739e9aff43766581.PNG 63d5aaa7c8578b2a8d125975d2265ff3 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/d199c7267cab54d043fb8ed3bd637062.mp3 2778fa24fadc2a01e3cc88f885a68726 https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/4663826f45a5d9dd7e9594f54fd14f4f.pdf 1a88b5dc977211dadf417c258a68aedb PDF Text Text Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 1 of 17 JK: This interview is with Sister Susan Wood. The interviewer is Jane Kenamore. We're at the Mother House of the Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth in Leavenworth, Kansas, and the date is June 30th, 2017. Sister Susan, to get things started when and where were you born? SW: I was born on May 8th, 1947 in Washington, D.C. JK: And were you raised in Washington, D.C.? [00:00:37] SW: Oh, not at all. My father was a student at Georgetown at the time, so it was a very temporary stay for the family. I actually grew up in the Kansas City area from about the age of four. JK: Ok. And can you tell us about your parents? What was your father doing at Georgetown? SW: My father was going to Georgetown after World War II on the G.I. Bill. He was in the School of Foreign Service although he never did anything in foreign service. He ended up being a general manager for Standard Motor Products which sold ignitions and things like that for cars. My mother was a nurse from Owatonna, Minnesota. My father was from Altoona, Pennsylvania. They met in San Francisco and were married out there. And I was born in D.C. and grew up in Kansas City. JK: Ok. (Laughs) And did you attend parochial school in Kansas City? [00:01:41] SW: I attended St. Ann's in Prairie Village—the Sisters of Charity took it over at some point there—through the fifth grade. And then my brothers—I have two brothers—and we were in public school for three years which for me was grades sixth, seventh and eighth. And then I went to Miege High School, Bishop Miege High School in Shawnee, Kansas for high school. JK: Did you have as many kids in your class as the Sisters talk about? [00:02:12] SW: Well, in the fifth grade in St. Ann's in Prairie Village there were 52 in my classroom and 42 were fourth graders and the rest of us were fifth graders. JK: And taught by one person, right? [00:02:29] SW: Taught by one person. Sister Jean Carmel. JK: And how was it from your perspective? I haven't asked anybody how it was from the student's perspective. [00:02:40] �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 2 of 17 SW: There was a big change for me between fifth grade and sixth grade because sixth grade I was in a public school and it was much smaller, and I had a very innovative teacher in the sixth grade, Mr. Diemer. They ended up naming a school after him when he died, and he was the one that taught me that I could be a student and kind of encouraged reading and creativity. St. Ann's was very regimented. I think it had to be to have that many students in the classroom. So, it didn't do me a lot of favors personally to be in that environment. And so it was much better for me to go to the public school and have that sixth grade experience. I didn't care for Junior High very much when I went there, and it was more comfortable in the Catholic high school when we switched over to that. JK: And the classes were smaller in the Catholic high school? [00:03:35] SW: I don't know if they were smaller but it was a familiar environment, and it was very college prep. And it was '61 to '65 that I was in high school. That was the Sputnik era. And so I had four years of math and four years of science. JK: Really. SW: Uh-huh. So, it was a very good education at that time. JK: Yes. And did he SCLs teach in the grade school that you attended? [00:04:09] SW: Part of the time. When I first went to St. Ann's it was the Ursulines of Paola, Kansas, and then at some point, and I don't know what year, the Sisters of Charity took over. And then the Ursulines had the high school that I went to. JK: Ok. You joined SCL right after your freshman year… SW: Of college. JK: …at St. Mary's. Right? [00:04:37] SW: Yes. JK: When did you begin thinking about entering a religious order or looking at a religious order? [00:04:45] SW: Probably in high school. JK: And what attracted you to the idea of women religious? [00:04:52] �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 3 of 17 SW: Again, you have to put things in their historical context, and at that time if you were a woman and wanted to work in the church that was the obvious route to take. JK: In terms of leadership and…? [00:05:12] SW: Yes, but you know the feminist movement hadn't quite happened at that particular point in time. I mean what is interesting is that the Second Vatican Council ended in 1965 which was the year I graduated from high school, and so I entered right on the cusp of the Council. And it's interesting in terms of my history in community because I've lived through every conceivable change in community, because I was in the long habit for nine months as a novice. I never had the white cap that the professed Sisters wore, but by the time we made first profession we were in shorter skirts that were made out of the old habit. So, I went through the regime of the community which was traditional but it was changing when I was in formation. In fact, they didn't quite know what to do with people in formation. They didn't know what we were being formed for in a sense at that time. And so, I usually say, well, I've been there and I've done that, and I don't want to do it again. JK: So, how was it? Can you describe the formation period and some of the changes that were taking place at the time? [00:06:42] SW: One of the changes that had happened in the community shortly before I entered is that we started saying the Liturgy of the Hours for morning and evening prayer. Before that time it had been a prayer book full of novenas and short prayers. And so that was one of the things that happened before I entered. And it was as a result of the Second Vatican Council because the Council had recommended that we use that as the liturgical prayer of the Church. But I don't think it was ever in our bones as a community in the way it was for Benedictines who had always done that. So, that was one change. We had two kinds of silence, ordinary silence and sacred silence. Sacred silence was at night and between 2:00 and 3:00 in the afternoon here at the Mother House. Ordinary silence was you could talk to do your business but you didn't chatter. There were formal times for recreation. That was part of it. So, in some ways it was very much on a monastic model. And actually the reason for that is that there was a 1917 Code of Canon Law… You're getting this from a theologian. JK: Good. That's what I was looking for. [00:08:07] SW: There was a 1917 Code of Canon Law which tended to put all religious communities in the same mold, and it didn't differentiate between the different charisms of the community. And so they all looked alike, you know. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 4 of 17 Mother Xavier didn't start out wearing a veil. She wore a veil towards the end of her life because the Sisters wanted it because they wanted to look like other Sisters. But when we took it off it was actually returning to how we were originally, because the first Sisters wore prairie bonnets, if you’ve seen other pictures of Sisters of Charity. We were founded not to be monastic. St. Vincent de Paul said your cloister are the city streets and the rosary is your breviary in a sense. So, when the Second Vatican Council told communities to go back to the charism of their foundresses, communities like Benedictines, who were supposed to be monastic, retrieved that and started calling their convents monasteries again, you know like their Mother Houses. And then communities like mine said that we're not monastic. That isn't who we are and so that prompted the change in life at that time. So, things have changed a lot, and it's going back to whatever those original charisms were of the community. We're still doing that today. JK: You're still going back? [00:09:55] SW: Going back to… So, like we've retrieved our Vincentian charism. I think I wrote in and said… You know, I celebrated my jubilee last year and one of the comments I made in the thing I wrote was that when I entered, yes, we were Vincentian. We kind of knew what that was, but it wasn't at the forefront of consciousness in the same way as it is today. Whereas we're having a big community meeting in the next couple of days and we're looking at critical needs, and those critical needs tend to be social needs in society and looking at how we can respond to them. That's very Vincentian in a way. So, that's what happened. JK: You spent your early years teaching French and English in high school. How did you enjoy that? Was there anything that you didn't love about it? [00:11:00] SW: I was never meant to be a high school teacher, I would say. I did it for six years. The French I still use today 'cause I use it in research, 'cause I'm a theologian today. And I have never stopped teaching English to my students because I make them write. So, those are skills that have never been lost. But early on I knew I was more destined to be a college teacher. JK: So, when did you become interested in theology and how? [00:11:36] SW: Oh, there's a story behind that. JK: Oh, good. SW: (Laughs) 1973 I was making my first directed retreat here at the Mother House. And directed retreats are these things that the Jesuits did, and individually directed retreats were rather new in 1973. And they tended to march people through the spiritual exercises over eight days, and they were somewhat regimented. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 5 of 17 And I remember that one day I had this very… I say I don't have religious experiences but sometimes I have clear, discreet ideas. And I had this clear, discreet idea that I wanted to do theology, and I wanted to do with my mouth what some people do with their lives. And so I went into the retreat director and said, "I have this thought that I want to do theology." And he said, "That's a distraction. Put it aside." And so I thought I don't have to talk to you about this. But I was teaching high school in Topeka, Kansas at the time, Hayden High School, and so I went back and decided to do what I could, so I volunteered for the religious activities committee which planned the retreats and different liturgical functions for the high school and soon became director of that. And the Father Thomas Santo (phonetic) was principal of the school at the time, and he decided to go into fulltime administration and asked me if I would teach his religion classes. So, I picked up sophomore liturgy and morality and that's when I stopped teaching English at the time. [00:13:32] And then the community had this thing where you filled out a piece of paper every year. And so every year I'd put what I really want to do is teach theology. I was not released to study theology until 1981, so for eight years I kept asking to study theology. And finally there was no one else in the community who could have done it or would do it. And then they let me. And that was because you had to have a foreign language ability to do a PhD in theology and I had the French. And also at that time it meant that you were teaching at St. Mary College in Leavenworth Kansas, and some people didn't want to do that for the rest of their lives. Well, I didn't obviously because I taught at St. Mary for ten years. Four of those were French. Six of them were in theology after my PhD. And then I went onto St. John's in Collegeville where I taught for 13 years for the Benedictines. And then I've been at Marquette with the Jesuits now starting my thirteenth year. So, it all kind of worked out in the end but it took me eight years to kind of get going with it. JK: Why do you think it took eight years? [00:15:00] SW: I don't think the president of the college wanted me to do that. When I walked out the door she said you could do what you wanted to do better if you were in English. Although at the time the plan had been that I would get a PhD in French. But I'm glad I didn't because the bottom fell out of French studies. The last thing I did before I left St. Mary was to turn a major into a minor and very few people are studying that even at Marquette today. So, theology was much the better field for me to be in in the long run. So, that was it. I don't really know. JK: You mentioned the comment by the Jesuit in 1973. I mean although we think of the '70s as being a time of equality for women because the Women's Movement started in '69 but obviously that was not the case. Or do you think it was gender related? [00:16:18] �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 6 of 17 SW: I don't think it was gender related. The other odd thing about 1973 is that was probably in June and I went off that summer to start my master's in French at Middlebury College. So, I had this conviction that I needed to study theology and went off in this other direction for this degree in French because at that point… I think early on in the community we tended to think of people filling slots in a way. And Sister Mary Vincentine was somebody in the community who had PhD in French with a master's in theology interestingly enough. And I was supposed to replace her. That was the thinking. That never happened but what's funny is I became the mirror image in some ways because I have a master's in French and the PhD in theology which was just kind of a reverse of what she did. Other than that we're very, very different. So, I think that was part of the thinking for a while, and so, I can't really say. But people left the community who had been earmarked to study theology. There was somebody in my novitiate class who they thought would succeed Sister Mary Jude who was teaching theology. And that person left the community. There were some people in Kansas City that they thought might do it but they didn't want to teach college. They were in pastoral work or they didn't have the language background. So, I mean I just had to stand in line. JK: Yes. Have there been any challenges. I mean theology is or was at least a male-dominated field, wasn't it? [00:18:29] SW: It still is. I'm in systematic theology. Some women tend to go into spirituality or they tend to go into pastoral theology. And if you're at a research institution like I am I would say… I looked it up and I think about… In research institutions that don't have these pastoral degrees the number of women tends to be about 25 percent. Now Marquette, we've been less than that for whatever reason. But I would say it still is. JK: Still is. SW: Uh-huh. Some areas of theology more than others. JK: Has that proved to be a problem for you or not? [00:19:22] SW: No. JK: Other than annoyances. SW: It isn't a problem. I mean the other thing is, you know, I'm enormously involved in ecumenical work, and I have four official appointments, two of them international. Well, three if you count the North American Orthodox, the International Commission for Baptists and Roman Catholics, and the International Commission for Lutherans and Roman Catholics and then the U.S. Dialogue, Lutherans and Catholics. And the Orthodox dialogue, I'm the only woman on the �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 7 of 17 Catholic side. There are two women appointed on the Orthodox side and there are at least 20 people sitting around the table. So, that shows that. And in terms of the U.S. Lutheran Catholic Dialogue, I'm the only woman appointment on the Catholic team. On the international dialogue there are two of us on the Catholic team. The Catholic Church tends to be gender-blind in terms of when they make these appointments they're not trying to balance anything. You know you're balanced for your expertise. Lutherans on the other hand have a quota system and the quota system is both gender and also region of the world that they come from or represent. And so, you know, on that side it's different. I have two brothers. They're twins to each other, two years younger than myself, and I say that they prepared me for the rest of my life. [00:21:03] JK: (Laughs) SW: When I left St. Mary College, I left St. Mary College, because I wanted to be a theologian. I wanted to write and publishing was not an emphasis here nor did we have the library to support it. And so that was making waves at the time because people didn't really… It was unusual to get a job outside of our own institutions. But I went and asked if I could look for another job and Sister Kathleen Stefani, who was community director at the time, said yes. I didn't want to discuss it. She didn't for some magic reason. And so I was in this job search for two years and St. John's moved very quickly and I went there. And that was a male environment because it was a school run by a male community of Benedictines who were walking around in these habits, and I thought oh, my gosh. What is this going to be like? But it ended up to an enormously nurturing environment for me and I loved it. And I didn't leave it because I didn't love it when I went to Marquette 13 years later. But it worked out really well. So, I do think there are issues with women in the church very definitely and also in academia and I think sometimes we have to be better in order to compete. But I've managed to do it, I guess, and hold my own. JK: Congratulations on that. It's very good. Can you tell us about St. John's and how are they nurturing? [00:23:15] SW: When I went I didn't know what was going to happen. I didn't know. Things weren't working out here and somebody had said, well, just get off dead center and try something. And so, here's the story. So, I was the new kid on the block and I had an eight o'clock class, because of course those are the last to fill up. And I would arrive at school about 7:15 in order to teach an eight o'clock class because you can't walk into a classroom cold. And Columba Stewart, one of the monks who was �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 8 of 17 in my department finally, figured that out or figured out that I was coming then. And he said if you're going to come at 7:15 why don't you come at 7:00 and pray with us? [00:24:16] I had never been in a choir stall in my entire life up to that point because we're not monastic. And so they had a guest section in the choir so I started coming to Morning Prayer. For several months I had this most amazing experience of, I think you'd call it, fight, flight and attraction. I was like a moth attracted to a flame and I wanted to come closer, and at the same time I wanted to run away as fast as I could. And this went on from October until January the 8th, no, December the 8th of that year. Well, December the 8th is the Feast of the Immaculate Conception. And I was in the choir stall and I was up on the last rung and the monks are amazing because they really do feast days up really good. And so for this feast day they had hung votive candle lights from the ceiling or something and it was beautiful. But I remember looking over the choir stalls at everybody who was assembled, 'cause it was not unusual for guests to pray with us 'cause we had a school of theology there and so a lot of the students would come. And I remember just thinking to myself you don't know it yet but I belong here. And that sense, all that flight, attraction tension totally disappeared. And I ended up taking to it like a duck to water. I mean it was just the most amazing experience, and I loved it. And for the rest of my 13 years there I prayed Morning Prayer with them Monday through Friday at 7:00. And so they became a community and I was kind of an insider/outsider. I was an outsider because I was a woman. I was an outsider because I was a Sister of Charity of Leavenworth. I was apostolic and they were monastic. [00:26:52] Some of the Benedictines do marvelous things. Like there was a women's community about five or six miles down the road that we were in a partnership with as a school. And their prioresses would officiate at the funerals for their Sisters. Then I would come home here to Leavenworth and I'd start saying wouldn't it be a good idea if… and I would get just to the "if," not even the idea and somebody… the immediate response was but we're not monastic. In other words, they didn't even want to hear it, whatever it was. And so, here I was a Vincentian, an apostolic religious, a Sister of Charity that took to this Benedictine environment like you wouldn't believe and yet I never really wanted to be a Benedictine. I mean I could not do with my life today what I'm doing if I were a Benedictine because I would have a vow of stability and I'd have a different relationship to community life than I have now. But I was so attracted to their spirituality. And, in fact, for the first three years I was there—I was trying to figure it out—what does it mean for a Sister of Charity to be in this Benedictine environment? And there's a Benedictine up the road here in Acheson, Sister Irene Knoll, who would come and adjunct occasionally, and I was talking to her about this one day. And she clarified it in a way. She said the charisms of different religious communities, they're attracted to different parts of the Scriptures and that �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 9 of 17 becomes kind of emblematic for who they are. And for apostolic religious it tends to be the Gospel. So, for us it's Matthew 25, you know, "Whatever you do for the least of these you do to me." For Benedictines it's the Wisdom Literature. [00:29:00] And so I was involved with the St. John's Bible project from its inception at St. John's. I was on the Committee for Illumination and Text for years until we finished it which meant we wrote the theological briefs for the artist, Donald, who was the scribe. And early on we were talking about which passages would be illuminated and with what weight. And I was saying there's this passage in Sirach you have to illuminate because you pray this text for Morning Prayer on the Feast of St. Benedict. And they said, we do? You know they didn't even recognize it. I mean they recognized it but they… It was just so much a part of their life, you know. So, what it meant to be an outsider was in a way to reflect some things back to them that maybe they weren't able to see. And there were a few times I was able to speak to the community about sharing their charism. And I have good friends there, so they mean a lot to me. JK: Friends from when you were at St. John's? [00:30:20] SW: When I taught there. JK: Oh, interesting. SW: In fact, I'm going back August 2nd to the 8th this summer. JK: Oh, really. Just for a visit. SW: To visit. JK: How was your first experience as head of the Theology Department at Marquette? [00:30:45] SW: I was the first woman to ever be the chair of the department. I'm still the only woman who has been chair of that department. So, I don't think of myself as a pioneer, but I guess in some ways I have been. It's a challenge. When I was chair the first time around we had 32 members in the department, so it's a big department. JK: And are priests most of the other members of the department? [00:31:28] SW: No, no. They're a minority. JK: Oh, ok. SW: It's mostly lay people. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 10 of 17 JK: Ok. SW: Mostly men. JK: (Laughs) SW: It just is. Being chair is really hard. The personnel issues are the hardest. I think the higher you go up the academic ladder the bigger the egos become, so you're dealing with a lot of big egos. And so I think personnel issues are probably the hardest. JK: What types of personnel issues? [00:32:09] SW: I don't think I want to go into it. JK: Oh, ok. Yes, right. You mentioned in your bio as this (inaudible) asking you about everything you've written that your writings focus on the issues of ministry, sacramental theology, ecclesiology, and ecumenism. So, how did you become interested in these four topics first of all? [00:32:43] SW: Ministry was another one of these clear, discreet ideas that I sometimes have. I don't have a lot of them, but the ones I've had have been life changing or formative. And that one was one evening at 10:00 P.M. in 1988. I can't remember the date. I was in St. Louis at the time, and my dean who was Carol Hines here at St. Mary College at the time… People should watch me when I'm ready for a sabbatical 'cause I tend to jump ship at those junctures. But I had missed a sabbatical when I went off for PhD studies, so she said that she would fund a summer of research if I came up with a project. So, St. Louis is actually, probably the closest major theological library to Leavenworth at St. Louis University. So, I was in a residence there. And I had a project which I actually never, ever did. But I had to do two things that summer. One was to write a response to the Decree on Ecumenism for its 25th anniversary after Vatican II. And then the other thing was to do this other project, but we were having a big community meeting, and I had to come back to Leavenworth in the middle of it for that. So, at ten o'clock on this particular night I was putting the period on the first piece which was the Response to the Decree on Ecumenism, and it sounds strange but I had a clear, discreet idea of what a bishop was. And it was the concept that he represented the Church in the Communion of Churches and there was a parallel between the College of Bishops and the Communion of Churches which right now is a commonplace idea. But at that moment it was original for me and to me. So, then I went off to Leavenworth for a week and played around and went to a wedding and came back to St. Louis. And I was faced with a decision and that was do I keep my original �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 11 of 17 research project or do I go off in this new direction, which was totally different. And so I gave myself three days to snoop around the library and I basically tried to see what was out there. And so I made the decision to change the topic of my research and I decided to do the research on bishops. So, my studies on ministry didn't start with priesthood. It started with the episcopacy and worked down from there. And I wrote for four weeks. I mean I did this in four weeks, and I eventually published that article in Theological Studies which is one of our top journals. And so that basic concept about the representative function of a bishop I worked data for the next ten years in various ways. So it became programmatic for the work I was doing, the research I was doing while I was at St. John's. JK: So, what were your conclusions? [00:36:40] SW: That the bishop represents the Church and the Communion of Bishops and the Communion of Churches. And so what's different about a priest and a bishop isn't about power, but it's about this symbolic, representational function. And then, eventually, I wrote on the priesthood. I was going to do the diaconate and then I became chair of the department and I never kind of got there. So I've never done that study. I've gone off in other directions since. But that was how I got into ministry. Now ecumenism is basically that if a door opens I walk through it. And so, two things. I went to St. John's in Collegeville in 1992 and on my desk was a letter from Carl Braaten, who's a Lutheran, inviting me to a dogmatics colloquium that he was having in Northfield, Minnesota. And he and Robert Jenson, who's another kind of famous Lutheran theologian… Robert Jenson was teaching at St. Olaf's College in Northfield at that time. It was a group of younger scholars, many of whom had graduated from Yale. Many of whom were not Catholic, and we would meet in his basement and they'd put a table cloth over the ping pong table. That was our conference table. And we would sit there and we would write papers and have these theological discussions. [00:38:34] And there's something about Yale. They come out speaking their own language. And it was a foreign language to me. And again I was frequently one of very few women. Mostly these were guys. And the hot air would just go across that table like you wouldn't believe. And I would sit there thinking, Susan, you're smart. You should know what they're saying. And I knew what each individual word was and I had no idea why they were saying what they were saying or what they were saying. I mean you know it was just a lot of verbiage. But I stuck it out and eventually coedited a Festschrift for Carl Braaten and became good friends with him and Robert Jenson. But that was my first… My theological education in school had been almost exclusively Catholic. I'd read maybe Moltmann or some other authors. But it was pretty Catholic and my background was really Catholic and so this was an introduction to other thought. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 12 of 17 And then at the same time Jeff Gros was a Christian Brother who was on the staff of the Secretariat for Ecumenical and Religious Affairs at the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. And he was looking for ecclesiologist to staff dialogues. So, the first thing was I was invited to a meeting in West Palm Beach, Florida. And ecumenism at that time was kind of at a turning point because the dialogues had gone over most of the major issues, and they really didn't know what do we do next. And at that meeting I remember getting very excited by and very convinced by the notion of what's called Communion Ecclesiology and became vocally supportive of it. [00:40:59] Then I was appointed to a two-year commission of Lutherans and Roman Catholics, and we were just called the Joint Commission. And we were given two tasks. One was to review the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification for our churches. And the other one was to come up with a topic for the next U.S. Lutheran Catholic Round. I was the one who developed the topic and it was on communion ecclesiology and the structures and ministries of the Church seen through that lens. And it became round ten of that dialogue. And then, of course, if that's going to happen, then I was appointed to the dialogue to carry it out because it was basically my idea. And so I've been involved in Lutheran-Catholic conversations since 1994 which is when that commission began. [00:41:56] And then in 2005 Brian Daley who was the co-secretary of the North American Orthodox Dialogue invited me to be on that dialogue. And then about 2008, I think, I was appointed to the International Lutheran Dialogue because our topic is baptism and growth in communion and one of my books is Baptism and the Ecumenical Implications of the Doctrine of Baptism. I mean it's called One Baptism, the Ecumenical Implications of the Doctrine of Baptism. So, I'm sure that had to do with why I was appointed there. And so I've kind of been a major ecumenical figure… JK: Sounds like it. SW: … through all this. But, again, they invite you and you say yes. JK: And then you take the lead. Yes, yes. Interesting. [00:43:00] SW: It gets kind of technical, so I hope I'm not getting too technical here. JK: It does but thanks. Those are simple explanations. I appreciate it. So, we talked a bit about Vatican II—how did the changes brought on by Vatican II change your religious life? [00:43:26] SW: Yes, we did. JK: Ok. So, you've been distant from SCL geographically for some time. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 13 of 17 SW: Twenty-five years. JK: Yes, a long time. How has the community helped you nonetheless? Or has it? [00:43:52] SW: Sounds strange. They give me the rope to do what I need to do. They're very supportive. In some ways I think that if I would have had to have stayed here I wouldn't have been in the community today, 'cause I wouldn't have thrived. So, things are a little different now. I'm on the governance committee which is this new committee. We just had a General Chapter last summer. So, I'm on the governance committee and the committee appointed me as its chair. So, I absolutely love Sister Connie Phelps who's our community director. I'm so happy that we have her. But she's pulled me in from the margins. (Laughter) SW: She taught at the college. She taught sociology at the college for years, and she's just very important to me. And for a long time… I mean I never considered myself a fair-haired child of the community. I never considered myself one of the popular people for whatever reason. I just always seemed a little different in some ways. What I do is not the norm. We're not academics. We’re teachers. We don't write books. We don't write articles. I have 70 articles and five books. We don't do that. And so I'm sure that's part of the reason I have felt marginalized and I've been able to be part of the community because I'm at a distance in some ways. I mean it's kind of strange. I have friends in community. I have good friends, but they're all over the country. My friends don't tend to be geographically close to me. I have ecumenical friends that are everywhere and my good friends in the community they're here or they're in Montana. But when Connie became community director I said, "Let me know if I can help you." And she said, "Don't worry. I'm going to call on you." And so she put me on this committee, and we're in charge of this event in two days. And so, I don't need another thing to do. I mean I have a job and a half, 'cause all the ecumenical work is in addition to my day job. So, she's pulling me in from the margins. [00:46:56] But the other thing that is really strange is that when I… I celebrated my 50th Jubilee last summer. And when I talk about these years with you I mean they seem like yesterday, you know. But when I entered we were just under a thousand Sisters, and now we're slightly over 200, 200 and, I don't 'know what we are, 15 maybe. Somewhere in there. And so we're downstairs. Just before I came in here we were moving tables for the meeting and 114 Sisters are going to be active participants of this meeting and then we have some observers. And the committee, we had a meeting at 1:30 today and we said next year when we do this there will not be 114 because of where the demographics are. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 14 of 17 So, in my lifetime we were at a point where we were wondering whether we should divide into provinces because we were so big, but they could never figure out how to cut up the pie and keep the schools and the hospitals in some kind of cohesive unity. And it's good that we never divided into provinces because we'd be combining them today. JK: That's right. [00:48:24] SW: But it is kind of scary to think about the diminishment. We do have some fabulous younger Sisters. And some communities haven't had anybody enter in 20 years. I mean we have wonderful, talented, younger Sisters. But the future's not going to be where it is today. JK: What is the future? I mean would you ever consider admitting men for example or bringing associates closer to the community. I don't know. Are there other ways of looking at the future of SCL? [00:49:15] SW: Men, no. JK: (Laughs) SW: Sorry. JK: (Laughs) SW: Associates, I think, they're very different. It's a very different model. Whether you would have some people who have more temporary commitments versus a lifetime commitment, I don't know. If you look at the history of religious life I think of Thomas Merton The Seven Storey Mountain. Thomas Merton entered his community… He became a Trappist in 1947, 1948, somewhere along in there, I think. I hope that's right. Anyway, after World War II there was a huge influx into religious communities. And I think the kind of despair that war leads to sometimes causes people to look at religion in a way they haven't before. But the sociologists tell us that that was a blip on the historical screen and that the norm has been smaller communities. And religious Sisters are really responsible for the healthcare system in this country. But that's being taken over, such as it's surviving these days, by secular entities and the same thing with school systems. So, we're moving away from those institutions, but I still think there's a care for serving those who are in need. And so that will look different. I think communities will be smaller. I think in the near future collaboration with other communities. I certainly hope we don't have to meld with another community anytime soon. I personally am not looking forward to that and certainly in terms of joining them and their works and working together. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 15 of 17 JK: I see. Can you talk a little bit about the new structure that's exemplified by the meeting on Sunday and Monday? [00:51:49] SW: Ok. At our last Chapter we voted in a new governance structure. It doesn't change anything in our constitutions. It doesn't change anything in terms of the General Council and the community director. But we had been experimenting with something called Leaven Groups. Of course it's a play on Leavenworth. JK: (Laughs) SW: We get our money's worth where we are. I sometimes think of that game where you say it's smaller than a house and larger than a breadbox. A Leaven Group is larger than a local community and smaller than a region. And most of them are six to eight people. And it's to get kind of a sense of community because more Sisters are living alone and in very small groups. It's kind of a grassroots kind of structure where it's supposed to be participatory. We do contemplative dialogue. We start with faith sharing, so it has that kind of a basis. But it's a place for issues to be raised at the grassroots level and then kind of trickle up rather than everything be down. And then there's supposed to be continuity between Leaven Groups and the Annual Assembly. Now that we're as small as we are it's feasible for us to come back once a year and have this assembly. So, this is the first one of that. So, there's supposed to be an interchange between those Leaven Groups and the assembly. [00:53:33] I'm affiliated with a Leaven Group in Helena, Montana. So, we meet twice a year. We meet from 9:00 in the morning 'til 3:00 in the afternoon. When I see that the Kansas City and the Leavenworth groups meet for an hour twice a year, you know, I shake my head and say how can they possibly do that? Even in Montana they have to travel from Missoula or Hamilton to Helena, and I'm flying in from Milwaukee. We're going to make that quality time in a way that local people don't. And maybe we have a bigger need for that. So, we have a fabulous group out there. And I enjoy it immensely. And it's my primary community really. JK: So, what are some of the issues that you will be discussing if you can talk about that? [00:54:37] SW: Ok. One of the things that the Leaven Groups did in their two previous meetings was to surface critical needs and so there are five critical needs that we've identified. One is immigration, refugees. One is limited access to healthcare. One is human trafficking. One is care for creation and the environment. And one is spiritual hunger. And so those are the five areas that we're going to be looking at. But, as I said to the group you can't start just meeting needs. You have to assess the needs. You have to assess your resources. You have to assess in a local situation what needs to be done. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 16 of 17 So, we're having two panels as part of this day, these two days. The first panel will be people who've been involved in assessing needs. We'll talk about that process. So, Sister Vickie Perkins is going to be talking about Welcome Central which is an organization here in Leavenworth that they worked together with the leaders of various churches to see what the needs of the City of Leavenworth are and they've come up with this Welcome Central. [00:55:57] Our Peruvian Sisters are going to talk about their assessment in Piura, Peru which led to the St. Vincent Pastoral Center there. And then we have a layman, Casey Dunning, who's related to our Sister Marie Carmel Dunning—she's 98 years old—who's coming here to talk about the Interfaith Cooperative in Missoula, Montana. So, they'll be talking about this process of assessment. And then we'll have a panel in the afternoon where we have Sisters who are actually working with immigration, care of creation and so forth. And then we have doctor who's the head of the clinic in Topeka. So, they will be examples of people who are already involved in those critical areas. And then the Sisters will see what bubbles up and to see if there is some kind of response that we feel called to beyond those individuals. So, that's where we're going. [00:57:04] At the Chapter we also developed a directional statement. So the mandate for the Leaven Assemblies and the Leaven Groups is to unpack that statement. And one of the statements in that directional statement was to address critical needs and their systemic causes. So, that's what we're doing. JK: Oh that really sounds interesting. Well, thank you very much. SW: You're welcome. JK: Do you have anything else you'd like to add? [00:57:39] SW: I don't know. It's just that I feel a vocation to be a theologian and that's become clear and this is the context in which I do that. It's amazing. It does not seem like 51 years now. JK: You've got a huge amount of work as chair of the department, teaching, research and then your spare time SCL stuff. [00:58:20] SW: It's full. JK: It's very full, but I can tell that you love it. [58:27] SW: I do. JK: Yes, yes. So, thank you again. SW: Oh, you're welcome. �Sisters of Charity, Leavenworth, Kansas Transcription of Sister Susan Wood Interviewed by Jane Kenamore, June 30, 2017 Transcribed by Jessie Lehman, October 1, 2017 Page 17 of 17 ### � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Wood, S. Susan Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kenamore, Jane Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data MPEG Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 58:52:00 Location The location of the interview Digital Sisters Files Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Wood, S. Susan, Oral History, 6/30/2017 Subject The topic of the resource Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth; Teaching; Theology; Vatican II; Charism Description An account of the resource Susan begins with what it was like coming to the Community just post-Vatican II. She discusses the changes of Vatican II from a personal as well as a theologian's point of view. She talks about beginning her missions in the Community as a teacher but not finding she was strong at it. She then speaks of having her epiphany that she wanted to work in theology and her path to get there. She also talks about feeling connections to charisms from other Communities as she works and finding deeper meaning in the Community through that. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Wood, S. Susan; Kenamore, Jane Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 6/30/2017 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource All rights belong to the Sisters of Charity of Leavenworth Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource MP3 Language A language of the resource English Type The nature or genre of the resource Oral History Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Wood, S. 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Title A name given to the resource Conference of Mother Seton's Daughters 1953 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Sisters of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul of New York Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1953 Type The nature or genre of the resource Still image https://www.scfederationarchives.org/files/original/d20dda582a50b89d4c2b9075aa936d7f.tif 90c545875955daf6c5da17c9a3aed0e9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Motherhouse, Sisters of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul of New York at Mount Saint Vincent Subject The topic of the resource Convent Academy of Mount Saint Vincent Sisters of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul of New York Description An account of the resource The Motherhouse and Academy of Mount Saint Vincent-on-the-Hudson Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource ca. 1880 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Illustration Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MountSaintVincent_01 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Mount Saint Vincent (New York, N.Y.) Type The nature or genre of the resource Still Image